Traditional Distribution vs. Self Distribution

Azmyth

Azmyth

Veteran
I've been doing research the past few days on how to proceed with my feature horror film I just finished.

I'm about to start a new one in January, so I can't really focus all of my time on this one anymore. The idea now is to get it out there, get it seen, and make a few bucks in the process.

500 people have already seen it. We are setting up a few more local showings based on interest.. that will generate some more $$.

Now we are trying to decide on how to proceed with DVD's. I have a friend whose had all 4 of his films distributed by a horror distributor with a pretty good deal on his end. However, he told me that its getting harder and harder and the deals are becoming worse and worse. I have another friend who has self distributed 2 films, and is working on a 3rd and is planning to self distribute his 3rd film, but try for overseas distribution as well.

Only one of them has shown their films in any festivals, and only a limited number of genre specific ones.

And of course we've got faith grainger who is self distributing her film "Deuce of Spades".

We are highly looking at the idea of self distributing, because we already know we have a large base of people who will purchase locally.. no matter how we sell it. The goal outside of that is to get it out to anyone who would want to buy it. I don't personally buy a whole lot of media from the store anymore.. the occasional $5 bin walmart movie. Most of the time I either.. redbox it, netflix it, or buy it online from amazon or similar.

I don't know how many people out there are like me, but I'd garner there's alot more of me.. than there are of the people who still buy stuff strictly from a store. Which makes self distributing seem even better, because...

more of the profits come back to us, we control the rights, and we can still run the film festival circuit if we wanted.

It seems like a win/win..

so why would anyone still try to get a traditional distribution deal nowadays? Is it just because thats your reassurance that you succeeded?

Can some people who've done it both ways chime in on your experiences and why you'd do one or the other?
 
Azmyth said:
so why would anyone still try to get a traditional distribution deal nowadays? Is it just because thats your reassurance that you succeeded?

Can some people who've done it both ways chime in on your experiences and why you'd do one or the other?
Click to expand...

The question is, what is the goal?

Is the goal to have your movie be accessible to be seen by a wide audience?

Or is it to maximize the per unit profit potential?

Obviously, that's a little simplistic but take two movies I have that are close to an example of Self-Distribution vs. Traditional.

I say close, because even with the Self-Distribution title, we do have a partner who helped us get it out there.

BEAT MAKERS - A Hip-Hop Documentary We self-distributed this with our partnership with Nelson Madison Films. It is available at Hulu http://www.hulu.com/watch/146610/beat-makers and Snag Films http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/beat_makers as well as iTunes, and Amazon for retail, etc.

Many of the deals were done through our partners but a good amount were done by us directly. So we consider that we are Self-Distributing this title and we're pretty proud of how far it has penetrated the market without a Major distributor on board. Oh, and of course without high distribution fees, we actually see a bigger piece of the revenue pie and make some money. Not much but we do make money from this title.

However, it's not as readily available as we'd like and it hasn't penetrated much overseas.

STEP OFF -A Narrative Hip-Hop Drama that was acquired by Grindstone/Lionsgate and released on DVD March 15th of this year. It's been widely available through Redbox up until the past few weeks and of course it's available on Netflix, and through iTunes, Walmart, Target, Amazon, any major DVD retailer you can think of likely carries it online (and we've found it on shelves as well). Now, I can't say for sure how far overseas it will travel, but I'm pretty optimistic of its chances. As for Revenue...we got a "fairly rare" MG up front and I've seen the early numbers and it has generated much more revenue than Beat Makers by far...however, there are many distibution costs to be met before we see more. As far as the market penetration, it's still in process, we know it's played television in U.S. territories in the Pacific, we hope that cable isn't far behind, and of course the foreign sales have yet to be determined.

Traditional distribution has also raised our profile somewhat as filmmakers. When you can point to Lionsgate distribution, more people raise an eyebrow whether they saw the movie or not (and to be sure, most people still have NOT seen it and don't know what they're missing).

So, I would say that the RIGHT traditional distribution deal is better than most self-distribution plans because it can free up an incredible amount of leg work after the film is completed (that's not to say there isn't plenty still to do: DELIVERY is a MONSTER Task).

Again, it's all an equation that you must balance for yourself. Most Traditional Distribution deals these days are likely to earn you $0 (I have friends and even my own older film that have not seen a DIME and yet can be found on VOD, Netflix, and other outlets) up front or in the long run as distribution expenses, even when capped often make it hard to see money to the filmmakers. However, self-distribution only goes as far as you're willing to work at it.

So, a film nobody has ever heard of will remain anonymous for a long time if the Self-Distribution plan isn't effective.

If a tree falls in the empty forest, does it truly make a sound?

That's the question.

-Martin
 
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Martay said:
The question is, what is the goal?

Is the goal to have your movie be accessible to be seen by a wide audience?

Or is it to maximize the per unit profit potential?

Obviously, that's a little simplistic but take two movies I have that are close to an example of Self-Distribution vs. Traditional.

I say close, because even with the Self-Distribution title, we do have a partner who helped us get it out there.

BEAT MAKERS - A Hip-Hop Documentary We self-distributed this with our partnership with Nelson Madison Films. It is available at Hulu http://www.hulu.com/watch/146610/beat-makers and Snag Films http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/beat_makers as well as iTunes, and Amazon for retail, etc.

Many of the deals were done through our partners but a good amount were done by us directly. So we consider that we are Self-Distributing this title and we're pretty proud of how far it has penetrated the market without a Major distributor on board. Oh, and of course without high distribution fees, we actually see a bigger piece of the revenue pie and make some money. Not much but we do make money from this title.

However, it's not as readily available as we'd like and it hasn't penetrated much overseas.

STEP OFF -A Narrative Hip-Hop Drama that was acquired by Grindstone/Lionsgate and released on DVD March 15th of this year. It's been widely available through Redbox up until the past few weeks and of course it's available on Netflix, and through iTunes, Walmart, Target, Amazon, any major DVD retailer you can think of likely carries it online (and we've found it on shelves as well). Now, I can't say for sure how far overseas it will travel, but I'm pretty optimistic of its chances. As for Revenue...we got a "fairly rare" MG up front and I've seen the early numbers and it has generated much more revenue than Beat Makers by far...however, there are many distibution costs to be met before we see more. As far as the market penetration, it's still in process, we know it's played television in U.S. territories in the Pacific, we hope that cable isn't far behind, and of course the foreign sales have yet to be determined.

Traditional distribution has also raised our profile somewhat as filmmakers. When you can point to Lionsgate distribution, more people raise an eyebrow whether they saw the movie or not (and to be sure, most people still have NOT seen it and don't know what they're missing).

So, I would say that the RIGHT traditional distribution deal is better than most self-distribution plans because it can free up an incredible amount of leg work after the film is completed (that's not to say there isn't plenty still to do: DELIVERY is a MONSTER Task).

Again, it's all an equation that you must balance for yourself. Most Traditional Distribution deals these days are likely to earn you $0 (I have friends and even my own older film that have not seen a DIME and yet can be found on VOD, Netflix, and other outlets) up front or in the long run as distribution expenses, even when capped often make it hard to see money to the filmmakers. However, self-distribution only goes as far as you're willing to work at it.

So, a film nobody has ever heard of will remain anonymous for a long time if the Self-Distribution plan isn't effective.

If a tree falls in the empty forest, does it truly make a sound?

That's the question.

-Martin
Click to expand...

Thanks for that helpful post!

I've been banging my head on what to do on this matter, because its sort of a "one or the other" kind of thing. Both will require work, both will require time. Maybe you can give me some advice based on my goals. My partner who worked with me on this film (as of right now, will not be working on my new one) has slightly different goals than I do. I'm not so much trying to make a profit as I am trying to make a mark. I want to keep moving up, and getting better and getting more attention. So while getting paid is great, its not my ultimate goal. My goal is to get it seen by as many people as possible, and if we make some money out of the deal... even better. I was stating that I KNOW we'd make some $$ locally, because we are already getting asked nonstop when people can buy a DVD.

My friend who has 4 films with distribution under his belt, told me that if it were him he'd still seek distribution.

I'm just trying to form a gameplan based on my goals, so I'm not stuck doing nothing. I'm in preproduction for my new movie now, and I need to be able to focus on that.

Self distributing like you said, seems like it would require all of my attention to be able to do correctly, and my goal isn't to spend the next 2-3 years messing with one film, but to continue making films.

Would selling a few 100 copies of our film locally, hurt our chances of distribution?

If I had a plan to go with right now..

- sell a few 100 copies locally, while we are sending off press kits to distributors.
- submit to several genre film festivals, while we wait.

What advice do you have for me?
 
Take a look at the AFM thread... No name horror movies are very lucky if they get traditional distribution. Everybody and their brother is making them now. You need a name cast and a well executed production in order to stand out from the crowd. A big distributor told me at AFM that if you are going to make a no name horror movie only spend a dollar doing it... If you have something exceptional you stand a chance of getting a distributor... otherwise the dilemma of which distr method to choose from will be a moot point... You won't have to choose because you will have no other choice but to self distribute. Unfortunately that is the current state of the market for horror filmmakers...
 
SUMMER OF '76 said:
Take a look at the AFM thread... No name horror movies are very lucky if they get traditional distribution. Everybody and their brother is making them now. You need a name cast and a well executed production in order to stand out from the crowd. A big distributor told me at AFM that if you are going to make a no name horror movie only spend a dollar doing it... If you have something exceptional you stand a chance of getting a distributor... otherwise the dilemma of which distr method to choose from will be a moot point... You won't have to choose because you will have no other choice but to self distribute. Unfortunately that is the current state of the market for horror filmmakers...
Click to expand...

I'm not discounting the info...

But, if I were a big name distributor I'd tell you to shoot everything for one dollar ,so that I could buy it for two. Just saying.
 
AFM thread? Sorry I don't come here often enough to know acronyms. Mind pointing me in the right direction?
 
I'm not discounting this information either.

There's alot of these kinds of movies being made. I'm not going to go on a "my movie isn't like that" spill, because everything about that is objective. I've even tried to do my homework by going to horror distributors and looking at their other titles. I don't see many films "similar" to mine, because it wasn't really made using the "gore/t&a" formula that so many use now. I personally usually don't rent/buy low budget movies at all unless they are horror or action titles. Because usually other genre's fall short within that budget range.

My friend has 4 films under a small company called "Tempe Ent." they used to be affilitated with Full Moon who put out alot of horror like the puppetmaster series etc.

I tend to gravitate towards the idea, that I should be pin pointing the target audience for my film.. which is horror fans, and not so much the general public. By going to conventions, and such. I do have a friend who has done well enough with self distributing his last 2 films by showing on select genre specific festivals, and using createspace and taking the movie with them to conventions, they've been able to make 3 features and are seeking international distribution with their latest and best of the 3. I don't expect to cause a ruckus with this first effort, but I know that I can sell alot of DVD's locally and maybe even regionally (alot of our cast are from all over the state) but you may be right about it being tough to get a distribution deal traditionally without already having some titles with that company, or having some names.

My goal next go round is to have the budget to have at least ONE big name in horror in my film. I tried to get Tiffany Shepis last time, but budget just wouldn't allow and all she would have made was a cameo and I didn't want to put her name on the cover, when she appeared in one scene for a few minutes.
 
Kholi said:
I'm not discounting the info...

But, if I were a big name distributor I'd tell you to shoot everything for one dollar ,so that I could buy it for two. Just saying.
Click to expand...


Translation: The market is saturated with horror/ghost genre with no name cast... if you choose to make them with a no name cast, do it as cheap as you can because you stand a very good chance of not getting a distributor or sales agent to rep your project. This was the reoccurring theme that I heard throughout my time at AFM from distributors and sales agents... It has nothing to do with with buying it for one and selling it for two. It is about what the market wants and what the market will bear... The bottom line is it's about how much risk you are willing to take with your money or any investors money that may be tied into the project? Make sense?
 
Azmyth said:
I tend to gravitate towards the idea, that I should be pin pointing the target audience for my film.. which is horror fans, and not so much the general public.

My goal next go round is to have the budget to have at least ONE big name in horror in my film.
Click to expand...

These are great points that everyone should pay close attention to because they are a big part of the equation in producing a financially successful picture. Joseph, I think based on your trailer you did some really solid work on Exit 101 and are off to a great start! Congrats and keep chugging!

Best,
Thomas
 
Azmyth said:
What advice do you have for me?
Click to expand...

Specifically. Definitely sell as many copies as the locals want to buy while it's a "hot" commodity, as that won't last. That's cash in hand.

Secondly, start developing the materials you need to shop it to distribution outlets. Trailer, Press Kit, One Sheet, etc.

Get queries out to distributors making them aware of your film, start with the wish list, then to the ones you know handle your genre, then everyone else (you never know if a distributor is looking to diversify their catalogue), Don't send screeners unless they request it. And I'd suggest waiting to have a few interested before sending the screeners at all. It will help a little if you let them know that "5 distributors are currently viewing this" and when I say a little...I do mean a little. When we send our first small run of screeners out, we had one company NOT view it for weeks despite us letting them know that other companies were interested and even after letting them know that we had offers on it. They basically ignored us and AFTER we'd made a deal and were in the process of delivery they finally come back and expressed interest...Well, we obviously had to tell them politely they had missed the boat but we'd be sure to contact them on the next movie (Never burn a bridge).

And to the point of queries, I don't mean 10 emails to Sony, Warner Bros., etc. I mean HUNDREDS of emails. I suggest anyone who plans to attempt to get distribution get the Hollywood Creative Directory in order to have information on Production Companies and distributors, the directory itself might not be enough, but at least it lists most of the players in the game.

Of course, a lot of time might be involved which is why in the future, you start these steps While in Pre-Production so that you can build the interest while you're in pre-production and post production.

Also, assuming you get someone interested, be sure you've got a handle on what they expect to be DELIVERED. Some seem obvious, Master Copy, etc. There is a specific format that they'll request but what many filmmakers don't usually have ahead of time is all the paperwork involved. Chain of Title, Agreements, releases, Etc.

So, basically, I'd say sell however many DVDs you can right now but if you want greater penetration, you should look for help getting the movie out there.

Even going the traditional distribution route will be a LOT of work, and no guarantee of financial reward. But, there will be some benefit to the market penetration in most cases over self-distribution. "Deuce of Spades" is a unique project and I think we ALL rightly praise Faith and her efforts but every movie isn't cut out for that kind of Self-Distribution success. Most movies aren't. Plus she's reaping the rewards of years of toil, so you must factor that in as I mentioned previously. Plus, to my point of starting early. She also had her story of making the movie becoming wildly popular before the film was completed. She used the dvx forum to maximum effect and the story was so compelling that she brought a lot of heat to the movie.

A lot of times, we get caught up in just making the movie (I'm guilty at the moment as our pre-production Press isn't where I'd like it to be with my next movie "blackhats") and don't spend any, let alone enough, time promoting it to the world, or rather the industry.

-Martin
 
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Azmyth said:
I have a friend whose had all 4 of his films distributed by a horror distributor with a pretty good deal on his end. However, he told me that its getting harder and harder and the deals are becoming worse and worse. I have another friend who has self distributed 2 films, and is working on a 3rd and is planning to self distribute his 3rd film, but try for overseas distribution as well.
Click to expand...

What are the films?

Georgia filmmakers?

-Martin
 
Martay is the man!

I've got 9 presskits so far to send out.

Some even specifically said they were interested right off the bat, just from the trailer.

wooo!
 
Martay said:
What are the films?

Georgia filmmakers?

-Martin
Click to expand...

No oddly enough I met him through netflix.

His first two, are realllllly low budget.. the kind that you wonder how they even got on netflix. So I was curious and got contact info and asked, and we've been friends since.

All of his are released through Tempe Ent.

Rise of Scarecrow, and Family Secret are the two I've actually seen.
 
You got something, it feels like if you hold your film tight to the vest someone somewhere will want what you have. For starters you been on this site since the start or semi start of your film right? So that's marketing in it's self also you avatar is awesome. These are just my feelings on the subject for your film, my gut says don't sell any to anyone till your game plan is in place, but I'm completely new. Good luck... A quick suggestion is to write out a business plan for your self like a model. The executive summery is in the beginning and people say to write that part last, because one will start to ask the tough questions when they go thru the steps of writing the rest of the pages, treat it like a business, you want to make a mark, why? Put the answer to that reason in your plan and you will start to formulate the best way to proceed with your distribution choices. As said before these are only my opinions do your own diligence. If you write stuff out in a specific way your goals and everyone on your team will know the objective and how you intend on getting there.
 
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