Jason Rodriguez
Well-known member
There's always the option of CineForm RAW to circumvent these problems and really get real-time 4K with a $5K computer/disk-system (Fast Conroe+small two-disk RAID 0)
Total Red Costs?
- Thread starter Columbo
- Start date
There's always the option of CineForm RAW to circumvent these problems and really get real-time 4K with a $5K computer/disk-system (Fast Conroe+small two-disk RAID 0)
Sarmoti
Active member
The area covered by 2K vs 1080P shouldn't be that different unless I'm missing something. With the idea of shooting in full color space vs 4:2:2 is there any reason you can't shoot 2K windowed with a B4 lens and then crop down to 1080P to eliminate any lens vignetting? Seems to me like the best option if you want to have fat data for color correction or post when shooting with a B4 mount lens.Gibby said:
Sarmoti
Active member
Jason Rodriguez said:There's always the option of CineForm RAW to circumvent these problems and really get real-time 4K with a $5K computer/disk-system (Fast Conroe+small two-disk RAID 0)
Yeah, sounds like a good wavelet based compression will be the most realistic post alternative as long as it holds up through multiple passes.
I'm kind of skeptical of decompressing full colorspace 4K RAW on the fly even on today's fastest multiproc/multicore systems while maintaining a smooth editing experience. I know 2K is doable and is probably more than enough for just about everyone out there but a $5K system might still be on the verge of practicality for 2K let alone 4K even with the help of a great codec.
"don't want to burst anyone's bubble but a $5K storage/computer system isn't going to have you breezing through 4K or 2K work, I don't care what codec you come up"
it's your bubble that needs some popping .. from my experience cineform prospect HD 2k ( raid not needed) will breeze thru 2k res with CC effects on a less then $5k desktop infact make that a 1/2 that price ...
i suggest you go to cineform.com and do a little catching up ..
it's your bubble that needs some popping .. from my experience cineform prospect HD 2k ( raid not needed) will breeze thru 2k res with CC effects on a less then $5k desktop infact make that a 1/2 that price ...
i suggest you go to cineform.com and do a little catching up ..
Sarmoti
Active member
donatello said:
I've used Aspect HD for a while. It works fine with a couple streams of 1080x1440i 8 bit 4:2:2 footage (Aspect HD doesn't support 2 K) . A single 10 bit 2K 4:4:4 would probably max out my 3.4Ghz Dual Proc Xenon system. And we're talking about working with Cineform RAW which is a different concept. I'd be surprised if a 4K wavelet could be decoded in real time on anything remotely economical. It's fine for editing and light post work but the codec doesn't really hold up through heavy post.
Suggested Cineform systems start at $3400 sans monitors or other accessories, base ProspectHD software starts at $1400, you're at $4,800 already and still have to add apps and accessories.
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Emanuel
Cross-Examiner
Sarmoti said:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=713712&postcount=12
Hope this helps.David Newman said:
Well I live in Mexico city, and the cost of renting a set of super speed lenses is $1000 pesos, that's less than 100 USD, that's if you rent the MovieTube or Pro35/Mini 35 adpaters in package, I don't know if they charge more for just the lenses. And the rental houses are Atomo and CT&T. I'm renting the movietube next thursday and that's the latest price. $2000 Pesos for the Movietube(+Tripoid, rods and Matte Box), $1000 for the Lenses and $1,200 for the operator.baquajim said:
BTW, I don't live in the US, and I'm not even allowed in, so my only price source is visual products, and that's were I got the Nikon set price.
Jeff Brown
Member
All seems to be getting a bit out of hand chaps...
Having a red will give indie film makers the option of getting something with good (enough) production value in the can. Shoot 4k redcode or 2k with either still lenses/ hired cine lenses etc.
Assuming you're going the negative pickup/ festival route (as many will) for the average low budget indie feature this will suffice. Encode with redine to 1080 or 720, edit on a fairly up to date system and end up there with a HD dvd master for your festival / distribution hunt and you're sorted.
Of course it'd be great to own all the bells and whistles and spend 100k on camera kit alone. But while you're at it why not buy a technocrane, a catering truck, a honeywagon.....why not just cut to the chase and buy a cinema.
If you want all the kit then get the funding and hire it (this part of the industry isn't going to change just yet). If you want to get a great looking product that has a better chance of getting picked up than a dv effort and with the option of going back to the source then blag some lights, some lenses and some actors and get on with it.
You don't have to become a fully self sufficient mini studio to make a good film.....
Cheers
Jeff
Having a red will give indie film makers the option of getting something with good (enough) production value in the can. Shoot 4k redcode or 2k with either still lenses/ hired cine lenses etc.
Assuming you're going the negative pickup/ festival route (as many will) for the average low budget indie feature this will suffice. Encode with redine to 1080 or 720, edit on a fairly up to date system and end up there with a HD dvd master for your festival / distribution hunt and you're sorted.
Of course it'd be great to own all the bells and whistles and spend 100k on camera kit alone. But while you're at it why not buy a technocrane, a catering truck, a honeywagon.....why not just cut to the chase and buy a cinema.
If you want all the kit then get the funding and hire it (this part of the industry isn't going to change just yet). If you want to get a great looking product that has a better chance of getting picked up than a dv effort and with the option of going back to the source then blag some lights, some lenses and some actors and get on with it.
You don't have to become a fully self sufficient mini studio to make a good film.....
Cheers
Jeff
I'm coming from DVX level of indie equipment. Mostly just basic B&H stuff, bogen tripod, 502 fluid head, 9" JVC field monitor, a newly bought Mac Pro. So if I'm to get a Red camera, will I have to dump all of my video gear and buy 50 grand of new cine setup? I guess this is a gradual evolution, and that's all I can afford. So can I use my existing setup with the Red camera?
I know this question may sound stupid. Does the Red camera even have a 1/4" thread hole for mounting a tripod plate? Or you have to buy everything from Red for a basic setup?
I know this question may sound stupid. Does the Red camera even have a 1/4" thread hole for mounting a tripod plate? Or you have to buy everything from Red for a basic setup?
tonacidigital
Well-known member
shaun_au said:
tripod: the RED will weigh approximately 7 pounds without lens. Fully rigged, your bogen may not be best suited for the job. You could look into the Cartoni Focus, but even fully rigged..it MIGHT be a bit too heavy for even the cartoni focus.. but we will have to wait until the camera releases before making final judgements. I think the Cartoni Gamma will be ideal and for a higher price, the OConnor 1030hd would be a sweet match.
Your 9inch jvc field monitor..probably won't cut it for RED...but RED, as far as I know should come with the LCD (don't know size yet), but it will be 720p resolution..which is needed. With the focus assist tools, the RED lcd should be good enough for filming.
You bring up a valid concern..and you will be looking between 25,000-50,000 for a nicely equipped red cine package. Though, you could certainly begin shooting with the basic RED, get the SLR mount, and slr lenses. You will still need a tripod that can handle the extra weight of the RED.
tonacidigital
Well-known member
To add to that, if you really want to use a cine lens..get a super 16mm so you can shoot 2k windowed. I have seen used super 16mm lenses starting at 2,000. A red + super 16mm will get you shooting 2k windowed for around 21,000 (if you add in the red drive memory..assuming it goes for around 1,000 starting). I am relieved to hear from the RED team..that shooting native pixel looks fantastic. 2k shooting for around 20 g's is grrrrrreat!.
Gibby
Red Savant
Sarmoti said:
You are missing something:
2K in the RED camera is 2048 x 1152, and 1080p is 1920 x 1080, thus a RED 2k frame is 6% larger than a 1080p frame. RED One can crop the 2K frame size by 6% and output 1080p 4:4:4 via the dual link HD-SDI outputs, either during recording or during playback.
Even though the image format/lens format grid on the RED web site doesn’t show the 4:4:4 colorspace available for 1080p recording, 1080p 4:4:4 recording in-camera, and via in-camera scaled from 2k 4:4:4 has been confirmed previously on this board by Stuart English and Graeme Nattress of RED. Max resolution for on-board recording is 2048 x 1152 pixels (2k) 10 bits log 4:4:4 RGB.1920 x 1080p at 4:4:4 can be cropped out of that. 4:4:4 RGB uncompressed at 2K and 1080p is also available via HD-SDI.
Further input from Stuart English:
“1080p 4:4:4 is still a recording option, but 2K 4:4:4 isn't scaled to 1080p, its cropped. You might save about 10% on the data rate to disk drive if you went directly to 1080p, rather than 2K.
Another option now is REDCODE RAW, recording 4K RAW at 24fps and using the REDCINE application to create a variety of output resolutions - compressed or non-compressd as appropriate - to suit your existing video editing facilities and the required deliverables.”
Stuart English
DVX User
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=70344
If you’re proposing to shoot 2k Windowed with a 2/3” B4 lens, which falls 6% shy of covering the 2k frame, then cropping back down to 1080p to eliminate vignetting, all just to achieve a 4:4:4 colorspace, it’s a lot of unnecessary gymnastics as opposed to simply shooting 1080p 4:4:4 footage in camera as described above.