Top 100k Camera?

Arafura

Arafura

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What is the best digital camera package for under 100k?

What are the contenders?

[Edit, I'm looking at Red and the S1-2k, but am not so familiar with other high end digital cameras]
 
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There are so many things to consider that you have not provided, no one is going to be able to give you a beneficial answer. There is no "best" all around. There are cameras that are best for some jobs and crap for others.

Why do you ask, anyway?
 
Rentals.

Are we talking about just the camera, or factoring in lenses, stabilizers and whatever else?

It looks like the CineAlta cameras might be pushing it on the budget, but those are excellent systems if we're only talking about the camera itself being 100k and need it for studio type production work. PanaVision cameras, last I checked, can only be rented.

For cost effectiveness, if I were in reality going to buy something, I'd probably look at Red products. Even though they have the workflow issues, the quality of product you get for the price is an improvement. It depends if you want to pay for a good camera or a reliable and well trusted workflow already integrated into the industry (like Sony, Panasonic, Arri).

Which portion of Northern California are you from?
 
If there some note as to use, it's probably going to be easier.

But for me personally and my own experience for under 100k has to be Red or the Panasonic 3700 Varicam.
 
I agree with rentals. Different films call for different cameras, just as different paintings call for different paints and brushes.

Plus... lenses, lenses, lenses. You can shoot with some nice and decent lenses but if you want the best... like Cooke S4s Primes or something along those lines... a 5 lens set 'new' would put you at $120,000 alone. And as said earlier... some projects you'll want 14mm, 25mm, 35mm, etc.... while sometimes you'll want 300mm, 105mm, etc.
 
Yeah I dont know what to tell you... I dont think their are any cameras alone that are over 100k and if you are talking about with lenses, matte boxes, misc then its a pretty abstract question.
 
lairhair said:
Yeah I dont know what to tell you... I dont think their are any cameras alone that are over 100k and if you are talking about with lenses, matte boxes, misc then its a pretty abstract question.
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Yeah, I think they are almost all rentals... D-20/D-21, Genesis, Phantom, Viper, and etc... I'm pretty sure they are all well over 100k. If you were to rent a Genesis from Panavision and drop it to the bottom of the ocean, it would probably cost them something around $300,000 at cost to just replace all of the parts.
 
Unless that Genesis has some serious bells and whistles I really don't think its 300,000. Plus I am sure you would have some legit insurance with a genesis ha.
 
I asked one of my ex-coworkers at Panavision what he thought Panavision had as far as listed insurance value on a Genesis. That was his best estimate, not being in the legal dept.

Of course, as you mentioned, anyone who rents a Genesis must have insurance... I'd assume they make it mandatory. So they (the client) would surely not get a bill of $300k... what I am saying is that when PV collects the insurance from their insurance company, the Genesis is supposedly valued at $300,000 to replace. It's a rare, proprietary camera. F900's (950's too) are mass produced in comparison to the number of Genesis cams.

And...the Genesis does have some serious hardware inside. It's also a proprietary and rare camera meaning even all of the pieces which you assume are 'cosmetic' or 'cheap' are not mass produced and mostly unique to the Genesis camera only, making the overhead costs extremely expensive.

Kind of like how a rear bumper to a Ferarri FFX costs a fortune... sure its just a fiberglass bumber... nothing special... but it's a Ferarri FFX... they don't mass produce those!
 
For 100K you could get a fairly tricked out RED package, or two modest ones. So I'd say that's the best bang for the $100K buck. Course if you really have that kind of dough, drop me a PM and I'll put together a sweet package for you for the price of coffee- well and $100/hour.

Noah
 
Red One for a proper film with good lighting there is no other if your looking at documentary/ uncontrolable conditions where it can become considerably dark opinions are out and everyones competing.
 
lairhair said:
Yeah I dont know what to tell you... I dont think their are any cameras alone that are over 100k and if you are talking about with lenses, matte boxes, misc then its a pretty abstract question.
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You are very very wrong.

Cinealta F23 is 180,000 body alone. Not including lenses, or the SRW1 recorder. The F35 I assume (though I never got a quote for it) is a tad over 200,000 body alone.

The Genesis doesn't exist aside from rental - but that would be comparable to the F35 since they are basically one in the same. Just the Genesis uses Panalog and has some proprietary Panavision stuff in it. Same with all Panavised cameras. Cinealta makes it first, Panavision "Panavises" it. And Cinealta sells their version shortly thereafter.

Phantom HD is around 200,000 dollars for the body.

Everything (Digital Cinema wise) hovers close to 200,000 USD for body alone. It's about 500,000 to get up and running with lenses and stuff.

Now you know. :)
 
+1 for the Red. I was a Camera Operator for my first production and it was with the Red. (Being a high school student it really came down to me being in the right place at the right time) so I wanted to start out by saying I haven't used any expensive setups besides this one. If I had the money, I would buy the Red One in a heartbeat.

The camera owner said our setup was around $90,000. This includes the usual, Arri mattebox and follow focus, tripod, Red 18-50mm, 50-150mm, and 300mm lenses, EVF, monitor, etc. It was actually Red #18, so the owner is a very early adopter.

When looking at cameras on the market, and the latest Hollywood productions, I still do not understand why people are choosing cameras like the Cinealta F23 or the GV Viper over the Red.

Cinealta does 1080p, Red does 4K. At 1080p, the Cinealta can do 30 FPS, the Red can do 120 FPS. Cinealta has 2/3" sensors, Red has a S35 sensor. The Red is $17k for the base module, Cinealta is $150k. Also, the Red is completely compatible with all 35mm film equipment making it extremely versatile. I have also seen amazing results with people using 35mm photography lenses.

Are people really just afraid of using a camera made by a new company?

My two cents.
 
the original post was on 6/21, never to be followed up on by the OP...where is all this advice going? i'm enjoying it though...in my dreams haha $
 
Luxaltor said:
When looking at cameras on the market, and the latest Hollywood productions, I still do not understand why people are choosing cameras like the Cinealta F23 or the GV Viper over the Red.

Cinealta does 1080p, Red does 4K. At 1080p, the Cinealta can do 30 FPS, the Red can do 120 FPS. Cinealta has 2/3" sensors, Red has a S35 sensor. The Red is $17k for the base module, Cinealta is $150k. Also, the Red is completely compatible with all 35mm film equipment making it extremely versatile. I have also seen amazing results with people using 35mm photography lenses.

Are people really just afraid of using a camera made by a new company?

My two cents.
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There's plenty of reasons why Hollywood productions don't use the RED. Hell, there are plenty of reasons why I wouldn't want to use the RED at our small production company. Once you get past the sex appeal of it you have to evaluate the real-world applications of the camera. It does give amazing results, but at what costs elsewhere?

First there's workflow. Workflow, workflow, workflow. It's all over the place and a moving target. With the other cameras you mentioned, there's a dedicated workflow that makes it simple and only really gives you one way of working with their respective footage. With RED you can do whatever you want, which means there's no one, solid set way of working with the footage.

For example, we just shot a short intro to our doc on the RED, less than 2 minutes of footage. For all my research, I couldn't find one way to conform back to the original RED media using the RED tools (RED Cine, etc) and FCP. After sitting on the footage for a few months Apple released some tools to "natively" edit RED footage (luckily I shot at 2K). Even then, I had no idea how I was going to kick out a DPX sequence or grade the original RED material, luckily we brought a colorist on board that will finish that process.

It was a pain to say the least, dealing with that hassle pretty much negates working with such a great camera. When you have to spend all your time researching, reading forums (which is the main outlet for RED workflow/software support), or emailing the RED guys it starts costing money, man-hours, etc. Most professionals don't want to deal with that. At least with a CineAlta or a Genesis there's a set workflow and plenty of real-world support out there. You might say the same with RED, but everyone has a different way of working with it and RED hasn't really released a workflow for their camera, just some whitepapers that leave you with as many questions as you had going in.

I won't go on, but you get the idea. At what cost does 4K at $17k come at? In reality, it's much higher. Granted, you do get a lot of bang for the buck, but you have to budget in the headache, hassle and hours for basically being a workflow guinea pig.
 
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