Tips needed for film look

O

orion32773

Member
Ok...so first off I am extremely new to the more advanced cameras and workflow and I know this gets asked a lot but I cannot seem to use the search tool on this site....I am getting fatal memory error for the last week. I have included a link at the bottom to a very short and basic test for trying to achieve more film like results but the subject matter is not the greatest (Flower stuff). I see such great quality vids out there and I understand it comes with experience, but any help is appreciated from you all that know so much more than me. My setting for the video and NLE are as follows:

Hardware/software:

Final Cut Pro 7
Macbook Pro 2.53
Transcode to ProRes

HMC150 Settings:

1080p/24
1/48 shutter speed
ND Filter is outside bright day: 1/64
Aperture: around 4 to 5

I have been reading on DOF to achieve better film like results and lighting makes a difference too from what I hear....I have found some really nice youtube videos of people that say "1st test with HMC150" and they say it is straight from the camera and its looks really good......documentary style or short film stuff. I have messed with scene files, but wanted to really understand technique before I just try to modify the camera so I am back to shooting with the standard scene file. Do I need to add things in post using color or do things in the camera or both? I understand that there are a lot of folks that just expect to turn it on 24p and get film like results....I don't expect that and that is why I am posting here. I must be doing something wrong. Here is the video, and sorry for the shaky no tripod and focus hunting on some shots. I am still learning. Constructive criticism is appreciated!

Vimeo:

http://vimeo.com/10779644

YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNNqEFW-Avw
 
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If you had shot exactly the same thing with a film camera, it would've looked pretty much the same.

Cinematography is about all sorts of things. 24p will give you the motion cadence of cinematic film, which is a very important element of what you're after, but you have to do all the other things, too -- art direction, composition, camera handling, lighting -- and it all also has to be appropriate for the mood you're trying to set.

Shallow DOF can be cinematic if it's used appropriately. It's not cinematic in and of itself. There's a whole visual language involved in cinema, and it all contributes to the "film look." It really isn't something you can just pick up a 24 fps camera and get. It's a craft, and it's an art, and it takes a lot of time and practice.

Find something you like the look of and try to copy it. Figure out what makes it look the way it does. Pay attention to every element of the image -- the composition, the lighting, the art direction. Try to achieve it yourself, and take careful note of everything you have to do in order to get it. And, very importantly, think about how all those thing play into the mood or feeling conveyed by the image. Is it dark? Is it bright? What do you see? What DON'T you see? How do all things affect what you think of when you look at it?
 
I am not sure what you are asking... looks like you know how to get DOF out of the camera just fine.

Film look is the 24p you are using, and usually heavy color grading in post like with Magic Bullet.
 
I honestly don't think it looks that bad, especially later in the clip. What scene file are you using? That can make a huge difference.
 
You can't really say if it's good or bad without knowing exactly what you want to achieve. Could look good if it's appropriate for the story or the artistic goal of the piece. Could look horrible if it's not.
 
Hey guys...thanks for the tips...keep them coming....I modified my question.....I realize that there is so much to it...technique etc. Just wanted to get some specific tips technically about achieving the results. If I am on my way there, then that is great. That is why I included to camera settings. DOF is something I am trying to do to improve and get closer to the effect. I am recalling a certain video in particular but cannot find it. It was just a guy shooting some things around the house....dogs, inanimate objects..etc. Things were very close up and seemed to give it more of that film quality I am looking for. So to summarize my above question I am trying to get more film like results. I know that may be a loaded question though....
 
Well, you have to know what you're after before anyone can advise you as to how to get it. Just saying "that film quality" isn't enough. :) It could mean many, many things, and does to different people.

As I said, if you like the footage you saw, try to copy it as exactly as you can and take note of what you had to do. Without seeing it and understanding what you find appealing about it, no one can really tell you how to get it.
 
I do realize that...I just posted that example and it was not a very good example of what I was after. I guess I will have to post some other stuff when i get more footage. My main issue was that I wanted to make sure I had the right camera settings and then any other criticism is welcome but i can understand your points, so thanks!
 
For general advice, I wouldn't get too hung up in "settings." People just starting out tend to go that way -- "what are the best settings" for X? In truth, that's not generally the best way of going about learning this stuff.

Settings absolutely affect your image, and using them well can give you all sorts of different looks. But it's better by far to approach it from the bottom up -- as in, understanding what the settings do and how they affect the image, and then applying them toward the look you want to achieve, rather than from the top down -- just getting a formula of settings for a look. I suppose it's the difference between giving a man a fish -- telling him to do X -- and teaching a man to fish -- giving him an understanding of what the settings do so that he can achieve the image on his own.

But if I can tie back to a point I made earlier, these two shots -- one of rehearsal footage, one of actual production -- were done with pretty much exactly the same camera settings both times, and no grading is applied to either one in post. The difference between them is outside the camera entirely.

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Seeing them in motion, they both have the 24 fps cadence, but one is distinctly more video-ish than the other. I don't have the actual footage uploaded, but it's not the bottom one. :)

So, settings can enhance, but they're not the key. Heck, the RED doesn't even have settings to speak of.
 
Don't see your shots

Don't see your shots

Is there a reason David that I do not see your links....I see them in my email notification but they are blank when I click them. I do not see them at all in the above post.
 
Wow......I see your point. Very good info here. Thanks so much David. Now all I need to do is figure out how to get what I see in my head :-)
 
I know the Demo you were talking about withthe guy shooting around his house and his dog, he was showing off his Letus dof adaptor. I was neat. In order to get that kind of control you'll need to buy an adaptor and 35mm prime slr camera lens's.
 
hmmm....is that the one that he is showing off the lense with his relatives or grandmother?....if that is the one you are referring then not the same one....but that one is very cool too. The one I am referring is pretty basic and he did not mention anything about the letus.....very cool lense though.
 
After all the shooting and post I've done - I have come to the careful conclusion that "The Film Look" is all about LIGHTING, LIGHTING, LIGHTING.
Startrek TNG was 35mm and looked like video because of how they LIT IT.

Lighting is HARD.
Lighting is an ART.

If you visit a pro film set - you will generally find MOST of the set up time is spent on lighting.

BUT - lights are cheaper than cameras! Yeah!
 
I have only had the camera for a couple of weeks.....and I feel that things are getting better....just learning the camera is helpful and of course reading all of the info on the forums. I need to study up more on lighting I guess. I do find that it makes a huge difference on the feel of everything. Too many hobbies.....and so much info to try and absorb on top of everything else I am involved with. ;-)
 
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