"Tiny Dancer" - a film by Jon Coy

[pia12254]

A nice film! Enjoyed the story and the acting. And I also thought something creepy was about to happen when they got on the elevator...guess we need to get our minds out of the gutter!

I agree with Jason that the scene with her finding/losing her card was a bit confusing. I concur that a couple of well placed close-ups could have cleared it up. And the steadicam shots were a nice touch but seemed to have a little framing trouble (namely headroom) at points.

But overall a nice, fun piece!

Daniel

 

[Lawsuit_Boy]

Very nice work. Love the way the camera moves throughout the film. Both leads handle themselves admirably.

Cute story that also has dramatic weight to it. Nice to see a happy ending.

Agree that sound wasn't the strongest point here.

I was a bit confused by the scene where she slides on her knees. My understanding is that she finds her card, then immediately loses it again. If that's true, then I would have done two things to clarify the scene. One have a close up where we can see it is indeed her card. Two, when the card hits the floor, cut in for another close up of it hitting the floor so we don't miss the fact that she lost it again. The wide shot was beautiful, but I think staying on it the whole time made the story hard to follow.

Are you a PT Anderson fan? I definitely felt some of his influence here.

This is definitely a film I'll be watching again. Good work.

To clarify: She slides on her knees and finds A card, but not HER card. She gets discouraged again when she realizes this. I guess that could have been spelled out a little more. I thought her "huff and puff" reaction was the key to getting that across. Glad you guys pointed it out.

Heh, yeah, I'm a PT Anderson junkie. I've been floating around in a lot of French and and British film circles lately, though.

 

[jasonthewho]

The things that were VERY PT Anderson for me was the shot where you moved with the guy towards the girl sitting against the building (Sydney/Hard Eight). And the end credits (Punch-Drunk Love).

 

[Lawsuit_Boy]

The things that were VERY PT Anderson for me was the shot where you moved with the guy towards the girl sitting against the building (Sydney/Hard Eight). And the end credits (Punch-Drunk Love).

Dang, I didn't think anyone would get the minor Sydney reference. Kudos! Definitely PDL in the end.

 

[abraham]

Hey I liked this.
Very nice and sweet.
I, too, dug the steadicam.
Also: shooting in a dorm can be rough...i remember.
not exactly the most interesting atmosphere in most circumstances -- but you made it feel really really good.
Word. I hope this gets in the 2nd round.

 

[Lawsuit_Boy]

Hey I liked this.
Very nice and sweet.
I, too, dug the steadicam.
Also: shooting in a dorm can be rough...i remember.
not exactly the most interesting atmosphere in most circumstances -- but you made it feel really really good.
Word. I hope this gets in the 2nd round.

Tell me about it! This building is more or less like an apartment complex in the way it operates. It's upperclassmen and graduate students that live here, so it's always deathly quiet and the building is just so dull and boring. Had to perk it up a bit.

I'm glad you liked it! It's really comforting to hear such generous feedback.

 

[Norm Sanders]

Hi Jon, haven't read the rest of your thread, so that I could just get my thoughts out fresh to you.

Nice boy meets girl film, that had some creepy factors along the way I kept THINKING might happen, but didn't ... not sure if it was the lighting, lack of dialogue in spots, etc., but in some aspects it kept me from enjoying the simple, joyful/playful payoff at the end, because I was expecting more and/or something different.

I didn't understand why when it LOOKED like she found her card, she then accidentally drops it & doesn't realize? Then she goes to a big white building (inside), and looks up the stairs, but I'm not sure where you were going with that. In the end, the guy has the card, so I'm not sure if what she dropped wasn't hers and she INTENDED to drop it, or if that's where the guy found it?

The title & her character of being a dancer had little to nothing to do with the actual story, so I also expected something more and/or different. In this case, she could have been a plumber, a receptionist, or anything else, and it really wouldn't have changed the story in the least, from my perspective.

I think if more had been placed on relationship, visible excitement/tension between the two leads (i.e. her noticing him before, not sure how to approach, etc. or vice-versa), then this could have had a LOT more of an impactful payoff/emotional punch to it.

I enjoyed many of the camera angles/editing choices. Audio, specifically recording of their dialogue is something that could be worked on a little as well in spots.

 

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

I didn't understand why when it LOOKED like she found her card, she then accidentally drops it & doesn't realize? Then she goes to a big white building (inside), and looks up the stairs, but I'm not sure where you were going with that. In the end, the guy has the card, so I'm not sure if what she dropped wasn't hers and she INTENDED to drop it, or if that's where the guy found it?

SPOILERS




I'm surprised a couple of people didn't get this? It's not her card. She thinks she has found it, but her reaction shows that she's mistaken and she tosses it aside. It is subtle though but I wouldn't change it.

She loses it in the hall when she first leaves her dorm/apartment early in the movie. You know, when she first sees him? She doesn't notice at the time.

 

[Lawsuit_Boy]

I didn't understand why when it LOOKED like she found her card, she then accidentally drops it & doesn't realize? Then she goes to a big white building (inside), and looks up the stairs, but I'm not sure where you were going with that. In the end, the guy has the card, so I'm not sure if what she dropped wasn't hers and she INTENDED to drop it, or if that's where the guy found it?

Hey Norm. Thanks for responding to the film! I've noticed a few people got hung up on this. I suppose a little more focus on the reaction might have helped, but it felt right to me. What happens is that she picks up a card that she THINKS is hers, but actually isn't. I must ask this, not directly to you, but to all viewers (and this is an honest question): did the character seem like someone who would pick up a card, run away, and not realize it fell out of her hand? I just want to know so I don't make the same mistake twice. I didn't anticipate it would be a problem. Also, to clarify, SPOILER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!if you go back and watch the shot in which she walks out of her dorm and past the boy in red, you can see her card key fall out of her pocket and hear it hit the ground. She was distracted by the boy and didn't notice. So, her card was locked inside the building (and eventually in the boy's possession) the entire time. It's brief, and if you aren't paying attention you could miss it.

The title & her character of being a dancer had little to nothing to do with the actual story, so I also expected something more and/or different. In this case, she could have been a plumber, a receptionist, or anything else, and it really wouldn't have changed the story in the least, from my perspective.

I chose the title "Tiny Dancer" because more often than not, a comprehensive film that really digs deep into its characters is titled after something specific, because the well of knowledge to gain is so deep. I find that most great films (not all) express their title with specific nouns as opposed to a type of action or action verb. I often get disheartened by titles that portray a type of action instead of a subject. It makes the film more three dimensional, I think, to try to find a title that represents a specific noun that does not necessarily relate to a verbial action. Also, I was hoping that people would pick up on just how "tiny" this dancer seems in the world until she crosses paths with the boy and becomes larger in HIS world. Also...Caroline is quite short and really is a dancer. It makes sense to me, heh.

I think if more had been placed on relationship, visible excitement/tension between the two leads (i.e. her noticing him before, not sure how to approach, etc. or vice-versa), then this could have had a LOT more of an impactful payoff/emotional punch to it.

I enjoyed many of the camera angles/editing choices. Audio, specifically recording of their dialogue is something that could be worked on a little as well in spots.

The focus wasn't on a relationship, though. The film is also a study of isolation and isolationism within cold, sprawled out Ohio campuses. So by her meeting someone, she is given the prospect of having a companion. So it IS about a relationship, but about the beginning of one.

Thanks for the fun discussion, Norm! :thumbsup:

 

[Lawsuit_Boy]

I'm surprised a couple of people didn't get this? It's not her card. She thinks she has found it, but her reaction shows that she's mistaken and she tosses it aside. It is subtle though but I wouldn't change it.

She loses it in the hall when she first leaves her dorm/apartment early in the movie. You know, when she first sees him? She doesn't notice at the time.

Thank you Michael! I'm so glad that it isn't something I completely butchered. Sure, it could be done differently, but I'm satisfied with it. I'm glad you noticed it fall out of her pocket in the beginning.

 

[Norm Sanders]

Jon, good feedback on the relationship/isolation part.

As far as her seeming like a character that COULD drop the card in such a way & not notice ... yes. I guess because of the way she was hap-hazzardly quickly looking at things under the seats & kind of flinging them all over the place, the way she slid on her knees up to the card, and then quickly ran off, she did seem a tad care free, and like she could just end up losing the card again, which is what I thought had happened.

I TOTALLY missed the card being dropped in the hall way. I'd suggest perhaps a quick cut away/close up of the card, to really draw the attention of the viewer to it, since it was of such key importance. Similarly, our short had a close up of the baseball being picked up off of the side table. Since the ball really had nothing to do with the story, I went ahead and cut out the shot of it, since I didn't want the viewers to think the ball had more importance than it really did (other than it was a cool shot). In your case, the card on the hallway floor WAS important, and could warrant/support such a shot.

 

[lilcaro]

caroline, jon did a great job providing a framework for you to do your very best. your performance carried us gently through the film in an amazing way. you deserve a lot of credit for its ability to resonate with an audience. i hope you're all proud of it and will let the great feedback you've gotten validate the choices your making as you continue to evolve as artists.

Wow, that's one hell of a complement for me considering this was only my second time in front of the camera. I was previously in a project called "Quip" that Jon worked on for LoveFest last year, but sadly it didn't end up getting finished. It's really too bad because I think it could have been something special. If you (or anyone else) would like to check it out, here you go http://vimeo.com/1094819 Just bear in mind that it's still unfinished, so be nice haha. We may try to redo it someday, but it's doubtful. Anyway, thanks again for your wonderful comments

 

[alex whitmer]

There is much to like here, but I so, so wanted to see some dance. Almost got there a few times, then - pffft.

I got a little lost on following the card. I thought she found it, then she didn't? Was there some other card? Did she lose it twice?

Both actors did a nice job with that nervous, hormonal angst.

Enjoyed the flick.

aw


www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com

 

[Lawsuit_Boy]

There is much to like here, but I so, so wanted to see some dance. Almost got there a few times, then - pffft.

I got a little lost on following the card. I thought she found it, then she didn't? Was there some other card? Did she lose it twice?

Both actors did a nice job with that nervous, hormonal angst.

Enjoyed the flick.

aw


www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com

Hey alex! Thanks for taking the time to stop by and say some words. I'm sorry we couldn't show any dancing. If we had more time we would have. The point of that scene is to show her segregation from the two groups in the class. Originally, we wanted a few dance shots, but time wasn't on our side. Plus, it might have slowed things down a little.

Anyway, this has been a problem for a few others on here. While a fair amount of people have spoken to me about these scenes and mentioned that they didn't have trouble following the loss of the key, I realize that it's still a little confusing for some. It's subtle, but she loses her key in the hallway INSIDE the dorm, hence locking it in there. The key she finds in the other building is not hers, which is why she drops it. This character, being an introspective, intuitive dancer, would not just drop something out of her hand and not realize that it is gone, especially if she'd been looking for it all day (the search montage was shot to be a little longer with different buildings). So I understand people's concerns with this problem, but I was hoping that those who really observe the film would pick up on that immediately.

Once again, thanks for taking the time to express your likes/dislikes. I really do value it. :beer:

 

[Spear670]

I enjoyed this film up until she lost her card. The "day in the life of" was actually working for me, it reminded me of a short from Paris Je Taime. I got a little confused when she was scrambling around looking for her card. I thought she found it at one point but she didn't, and by the time I realized that she was talking to the guy. I just needed to play a little catch up and got taken out of the flow.

 

[Mark Harris]

Yeah, I think the losing key thing was a little goofy, because she drops the second key so quickly, without any focus on that moment, that I assumed she found her key again and then dropped it again without noticing. From what you describe, I think we need a moment for her to realize it's not her key.

But overall, this was nice, simple, honest, direct. The actress was really good on camera. The guy very natural as well. I thought the cinematography fit the piece for the most part, in that it was a simple, personal story. I LOVE the long single camera moves, like in the dorm room, and then moving in on her in the dance studio. Really nicely chosen and executed shots.

Though to be honest, I think you stretch that handy-cam look about as far as it will go. As charming and good as this was, I think it would have been even better with lights, or more specific lighting choices. He's going to hate me for using him as an example, but this is what separates Zak from about 90% off the indie "human moments" crowd. His films are beautiful.

Not that yours should look like his, and maybe that's just my preference, or maybe this look is a one-off for you, but if it's not, I think it might be something to add in next time if you are looking for ways to expand and challenge yourself.

The cut to her at the window was a hair...abrupt? I dunno. After the wonderful shot of her coming in, it felt a little jarring. Might be worth a second peek.

Also, the sound for the most part worked within the confines of what you were doing, but I think this piece is nice enough that it would be worth a sound mix and evening out the differences between shots and such, and even foleying things like the dorr bangs, things that got recorded badly. Again, it's pretty minor, but like I said I think the piece deserves it, and will help distinguish your work as serious and professional.

Really nice work. Simple, honest, direct.

 

[Lawsuit_Boy]

Yeah, I think the losing key thing was a little goofy, because she drops the second key so quickly, without any focus on that moment, that I assumed she found her key again and then dropped it again without noticing. From what you describe, I think we need a moment for her to realize it's not her key.

But overall, this was nice, simple, honest, direct. The actress was really good on camera. The guy very natural as well. I thought the cinematography fit the piece for the most part, in that it was a simple, personal story. I LOVE the long single camera moves, like in the dorm room, and then moving in on her in the dance studio. Really nicely chosen and executed shots.

Though to be honest, I think you stretch that handy-cam look about as far as it will go. As charming and good as this was, I think it would have been even better with lights, or more specific lighting choices. He's going to hate me for using him as an example, but this is what separates Zak from about 90% off the indie "human moments" crowd. His films are beautiful.

Not that yours should look like his, and maybe that's just my preference, or maybe this look is a one-off for you, but if it's not, I think it might be something to add in next time if you are looking for ways to expand and challenge yourself.

The cut to her at the window was a hair...abrupt? I dunno. After the wonderful shot of her coming in, it felt a little jarring. Might be worth a second peek.

Also, the sound for the most part worked within the confines of what you were doing, but I think this piece is nice enough that it would be worth a sound mix and evening out the differences between shots and such, and even foleying things like the dorr bangs, things that got recorded badly. Again, it's pretty minor, but like I said I think the piece deserves it, and will help distinguish your work as serious and professional.

Really nice work. Simple, honest, direct.

Trust me Mark, if I had the money to afford proper lighting equipment and sound equipment (although fair sound equipment, I just didn't have a sound guy), I would get on top of that. Personally, I'm pleased with the way this film came out. Sure, a few shots here and there could have used more accent on faces and generally more atmosphere, but we do what we can, right? I did this project just as something to do, and I had no idea it would even get as far as entering a contest. This is really exciting for me!

Trust me, I absolutely adore Zak's use of colors and style. But I just didn't have what it took to get some of these things. Plus, I was going for a colder aesthetic anyway that borrowed from films like Punch-Drunk Love and ESPECIALLY Godard's A Woman is a Woman (which is where PDL got it's look from). I've had a lot of people really love the atmosphere that the cold, natural light breeds, but I can see it's pretty divided. Some like it, some don't. I'm totally cool with that. :thumbsup:

I also must mention that, and this is important, this was all shot in a STOCK dvx-100a. I just wanted to mention it because I'm proud of that little camera. It just keeps on chuggin' along. I've done more "beautiful" work (check out my vimeo page and see "Two Hours in Atwood for some strong exposures with good dynamic range and no blow outs).


I appreciate the great review you gave, Mark! Thanks a bunch! :beer:

 

[lilcaro]

I would also like to add, mostly because Jon has already mentioned it a couple times in this thread, that you can see and hear the card key fall out of my pocket when I walk past the boy, which is how the key ends up in his posession. I'm not sure if people aren't noticing because they can't see it, or hear it, or both. I know both of us would really like to know

 

[Lawsuit_Boy]

I would also like to add, mostly because Jon has already mentioned it a couple times in this thread, that you can see and hear the card key fall out of my pocket when I walk past the boy, which is how the key ends up in his posession. I'm not sure if people aren't noticing because they can't see it, or hear it, or both. I know both of us would really like to know

It would help to know. It seems that half catch it and half don't.

 

[SMarston]

i felt like i was running in circles on this one, it was a cute story and im sure everyone can relate in one way or another but it seemed a lot like a short soap opera to me. good entry though