Threatened with legal action over a Youtube upload

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Folks, the OP has a very concrete question - how much liability does he face, and what should he do? There is no point in waxing philosophical about copyright laws and motives, society, world peace, and all that - it's really quite OT. To the OP - there is nothing for you to do but wait. You already removed the offending material. The next move is the rights holder's. If s/he decides to take legal action, you must hire a lawyer. It is entirely possible that s/he'll look to settle with you for some amount under the threat of taking you to court - take that offer of settlement and hire a lawyer, because you must make sure that the offer is legit and they can't come back to you for a second bite, so this needs to be overseen by a lawyer; whether it makes sense to settle - also a question for a lawyer. For now, all you can do is get recommendations for a lawyer/solicitor, await the next move by the copyright holder upon which you then go ahead and hire the lawyer. The best outcome for you would be for the rights holder to forget it, as they made their point. Regardless of the outcome, hopefully you learned a lesson: never leave yourself unnecessarily exposed to legal liability. Best of luck!
 
There is no point in waxing philosophical about copyright laws and motives, society, world peace, and all that - it's really quite OT
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Come off your high horse, he's talking about a children's VHS tape with apparently little-to-no fan base. Quite OT?.....you're OT!

Patent/copyright trolls are gonna go after whales ( "multi-billion dollar major corporations" ) I mean someone who works in film/video.....there's no money to be had, right? (no offense to the OP) :grin:
 
Er, no, I'm not OT - I answered his question, no more no less. How do you know the rights holder in this case is a troll? I don't, and don't assume so - none of us know for sure one way or another. And even wrt. trolls, you are wrong, so-called patent/copyright trolls don't just go after big corporations - they go after anyone who can pay a few thousand - that's the business model specifically of those outfits (usually a lawyer or two) that go after illegal uploads/downloads of films/videos etc., they go after small fry individuals and extract just below nuisance amounts (i.e. they demand less than what it would cost to defend in court). I have no idea (and frankly doubt) that this is the case here, but the point is that you don't want to be exposed to unnecessary legal liability - and yes, even in this case, the rights holder(s) may demand a nuisance-level settlement. The best thing for the OP is to locate a good lawyer and wait - if a demand is made, or legal action is taken, then the OP can actually hire the lawyer he's located.
 
A dozen years back, a friend knowingly used copyrighted music at a corporate presentation. He was warned, but he felt he was a "little guy," and the owner of the music wouldn't be bothered.

It cost him $12,500.00.
 
The huge factor in th OP favor is that he is in the UK. When I lived in Scotland 20+ years ago, lawyers didn't work on contingency, they wanted to be paid in advance. Back then one of Glasgow's largest rental agency wouldn't return my 750 pound deposit, a lawyer told me he'd have to charge about 400 pounds for legal action (discounted rate as he'd just handled a house purchase for me), and he advised it didn't make sense for me to engage him in this. Also as the amount was under I believe 5000 pounds it would be in small claims court, where even if I won I couldn't end up getting lawyer fees awarded. I ended up taking the agency to small claims court myself, winning when they didn't show up, whereupon Scottish law gave me the right to threaten to send a sherrif to seize property if they didn't pay up, got my check very quickly. While I could be wrong I can't imagine a UK judge allowing punitive damages for lost sales from a VHS tape where none have been available to buy for years. Realistically if he wants to sue you it may have to be small claims where, if still as it was back then in Scotland, even if he wins he is out his legal fees and his winnings from you of lost sales may be much less than that. For your peace of mind consult a UK lawyer, but I suspect this guy is either bluffing or hasn't figured out yet that you'd likely both be losers.
 
This is stupid! We have a decent online court action system here in the UK that people like Getty Images and others use regularly, and they nearly always win. The judgements get made based on evidence, and the judge decides if the amount claimed is reasonable, and that does NOT mean cheap! The judge is a trained intellectual property expert and is fully aware of how much rights are traded for. You get a letter before action which asks you to respond and settle to avoid court. You then decide. Unless you can prove you did not do it, or do have permission, what can you argue? YouTube have copyright warnings when you upload. "Make sure you own the copyright etc etc" so you did it. You cannot lie about your age in court, it's contempt, and increases the money you will pay, or could even result in a custodial sentence. Do not lie! You did it. You knew you did not own the copyright, so what can you tell the court in mitigation? Our law is quite clear. Finding it unfair is fine, tell your MP. HUGE fines are now being levied for second time offenders and anyone in business who was warned in advance and still did it. Nightclub owners playing music without paying is now a five figure fine.

This is serious. You need to hopefully negotiate. They will do a credit check on you to find out if you have money. If you are skint, they will leave you alone, but if you have money..........?

negotiate nicely now. A solicitor can guide you through the process at your cost, but will almost certainly tell you that you will not win. You did it. All you can argue about is the money. Opinions and beliefs are not relevant. The links provided above will confirm this. Unless you had permission you are stuffed and have no defence. Sorry.

Monetisation on YouTube is a simple way to avoid taking people to court, but it's their choice to not do it. Had this myself years ago but luckily before we released the product. In our case we used rhoal dahl's fungus the bogeyman name and some of the story in a parody song (allowed by UK law) but we got a cease and desist letter. We didn't fight, just stopped.

If you go to court, then you will need to present something to reduce the fine level. Perhaps evidence they have never marketed it, hence why you concluded they had no interest in it? Might help?
 
Clearly the original poster was wrong and would lose in court. My only suggestion is to plead to the guy in the same way I would with the cop who pulls me over for speeding. Feign ignorance, that you didn't realize that it would be an issue, you were only sharing with some friends, you never meant to do anything wong, you didn't think anyone would care about this or even held the rights anymore, etc. Don't lie. Just say that you're sorry. And hope that the guy leaves it at that and walks away.
 
Mitch Gross said:
Clearly the original poster was wrong and would lose in court. My only suggestion is to plead to the guy in the same way I would with the cop who pulls me over for speeding. Feign ignorance, that you didn't realize that it would be an issue, you were only sharing with some friends, you never meant to do anything wong, you didn't think anyone would care about this or even held the rights anymore, etc. Don't lie. Just say that you're sorry. And hope that the guy leaves it at that and walks away.
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I wouldn't do that because it also incriminates you if you end up needing a lawyer... it might work, if so great that IS ideal. If the guy is looking for a lawsuit and you just plead guilty in writing you're kinda out of luck in defending your case.
 
Agreed. Here is a video advising not to talk to the police without a lawyer. It's presented in a humorous way, but I think it will give you some perspective about talking to someone who is threatening litigation without first talking to an attorney that is an expert in the field.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
 
Has anyone here even READ the FBI warning at the beginning of every DVD?

No one has to SUE for the OP to face serious consequences. In the US, all it takes is for someone to REPORT it to the FBI, and the OP will face criminal prosecution with a possible $250,000 fine and imprisonment. This is NOT a matter to take lightly!

I know, the OP is in the UK -- read those warnings that mention that Interpol investigates copyright infringement cases as well.

It doesn't matter if the OP profited from the infringement or not. It doesn't matter if the copyright owner lost income or not. And it doesn't matter what amount of income he may have potentially lost. Just as it wouldn't matter if you stole $100 from a billionaire -- it's like a penny to him, but the crime remains the same.

Copyright infringement is theft, pure and simple. Like it or not, it's the law. And it's the very law that protects those of us who are 'small fish' trying to make it in this big pond.

If it were MY film put up on YouTube, I'd be on the phone to the lawyer first, the FBI second, and Interpol third. I can't afford to be robbed. If you can, that's your business. Give away your stuff if you want, but don't try to justify someone stealing from someone else who may not be as 'generous' as you are.
 
It really does rather rely on luck. The notion that some old product laying around unexploited is fair game is a rather daft one. There are a few of mine, that I would not want making public now - with Facebook, Youtube and Vimeo so available. It's not that they are worth something, they' worth more to me lost forever, because what I do now is very different, and frankly much is embarrassing. So if somebody released one, I'd be putting in the on-line claim against them straight away. Not because I want the money, I just want to be in control of my product, not them!
 
paulears said:
It really does rather rely on luck. The notion that some old product laying around unexploited is fair game is a rather daft one. There are a few of mine, that I would not want making public now - with Facebook, Youtube and Vimeo so available. It's not that they are worth something, they' worth more to me lost forever, because what I do now is very different, and frankly much is embarrassing. So if somebody released one, I'd be putting in the on-line claim against them straight away. Not because I want the money, I just want to be in control of my product, not them!
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Absolutely. I have a few skeletons I'd prefer stay buried in the closet. Nothing like a Jerry Lewis Holocaust comedy, but bad enough that I'd prefer they be lost to the sands of time.
 
Catching flack for my comments, but I tend to look at works like I do a lawnmower. Just because you don't see me using it at the moment, doesn't give you the right to pull it from my garage a use it to mow your lawn. Would you steal your neighbors car and take it on a joy ride just because he leaves his garage door open? So then what gives you the right to steal other's works? I see people here making jokes about this. Well it's all real funny until somebody takes your property. What if someone was using your wedding reel as their own to get work? Or if somebody pirated your custom composed music and used it in their production? Or stole cuts from one of your films and inserted them into their film? Or captured your entire video reel and then posted it as an example of how not to edit? Stealing is stealing.... no matter what you take! And for those of you that are amateurs and do not make a living from audio/video/film work, this is how we put food on the table. What if somebody downloaded part of your paycheck into their account each month? I'm sorry to sprout off like this, but I have on more than one occasion been the recipient of having my copyright work stolen. And I am of the strongest opinion, that dvxuser has no place for users that promote theft in any way shape or form!
 
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