Thinking about going AVID
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Take_1
Well-known member
DC, I completely agree with you... and I had suggested the same in several of my posts in this thread and others. However, I was personally attacked out of the blue and felt I needed to respond. I am totally in favor of hitting your reset button and playing nice. Let's hope that others will too.:smile:
switchradic
New member
I read some of the posts on the first two pages and decided to chime in with my first post on these boards!
I too am considering going Avid. Actually, I figured I'd have to eventually since I want to work in the pro industry. Anyway, I recently purchased a new Mac Pro w/2x 2.8 quad-core with 2 GB of RAM and a 320 HD. I have 1 ATI Radeon 2600 gfx card. I bought the machine specifically for FCP/Avid/After Effects learning.
I read that Avid is discontinuing AXP and going with MC so I guess I'll have to go with that. I have to wait on the new release of MC as I am running Leopard on this machine.(It came pre-installed) So my question is, Do you think I have the right specs to just be able to buy the software and run it to learn the program?
I've also been cutting for 5 years on FCP and was wondering about the learning curve. I already know some of the things that I have to get my head around. The "no-drag-and-drop" thing is one and the different modes is another. I walked into an interview 6 months ago at a local news station and the editor threw me on a machine and told me to cut a story. Man was it tough! It took me at least a half hour just to figure out the basics of how to cut on the thing! Hence, why I need to get MC to learn on.
I too am considering going Avid. Actually, I figured I'd have to eventually since I want to work in the pro industry. Anyway, I recently purchased a new Mac Pro w/2x 2.8 quad-core with 2 GB of RAM and a 320 HD. I have 1 ATI Radeon 2600 gfx card. I bought the machine specifically for FCP/Avid/After Effects learning.
I read that Avid is discontinuing AXP and going with MC so I guess I'll have to go with that. I have to wait on the new release of MC as I am running Leopard on this machine.(It came pre-installed) So my question is, Do you think I have the right specs to just be able to buy the software and run it to learn the program?
I've also been cutting for 5 years on FCP and was wondering about the learning curve. I already know some of the things that I have to get my head around. The "no-drag-and-drop" thing is one and the different modes is another. I walked into an interview 6 months ago at a local news station and the editor threw me on a machine and told me to cut a story. Man was it tough! It took me at least a half hour just to figure out the basics of how to cut on the thing! Hence, why I need to get MC to learn on.
arrestthisman
Well-known member
"Are you on dope? Really... I'm serious here.
Before you go smashing software you better be up on your facts dude. Avid products produce more than 85% of everything you see on TV and on the big screen. If the product sucked like you errantly claim, believe me, we wouldn't be using it using it at all. The fact that it is stable and reliable is why we use it.
Don't know why you had a bad experience but in the big scheme of things you are in the minority. We just finished posting two different HD television series (23 episodes). One in 1080i (XDCam HD) the other in 720p/59.94 (P2/Firestore). One series was on MAC the other on PC. The turnaround time was 6 weeks. Both systems were flawless.
If you don't like Avid thats fine, you have the right to choose what you want. But don't go disin' it when its obvious you don't have a clue of what your talking about.
'Nuf said." - Take 1
I didn't flame anyone. I put up my opinion with the explicit corollary that it was only my opinion, and then you posted the quote above. I then commented about how the state of flamers on boards, and you retorted with post #117; which I think anyone would agree was one big unprovoked bonfire.
I'm sorry you're so angry. I never meant to offend you personally, but it seems you took it that way. I use biofeedback to control my stress, which is a very effective tool for managing anger. Yoga is also nice. For your own health, I hope you can relax.
BACK ON TOPIC:
It does sound like AVID is retooling to meet the needs of its customers. I used media composer for a few years, and it is more stable than Xpress pro IMO.
I really do hope AVID get's things back on the stable side, because as I said in three seperate posts, they still have the best interface, and the best media management. I think for now FCP has the best suite for a less expensive DI solution. However, if I had a choice between a rock solid AVID system, and FCP, I'd take AVID in a heartbeat.
Therefore it makes sense that if one has a good experience with AVID, the features (and color correction) are superior to FCP. That's one thing I forgot to mention. The CC in Xpress Pro is simply amazing, and, at least for my applications, even Apple Color doesn't come close to AVID's symphony-ized tools. Again, IMO.
I always hope any software package can improve, and specifically AVID vs. FCP: Everyone benefits from meaningful competition. So I don't know where anyone got the idea that I'm rooting for one piece of software or another. If I didn't make that clear, I'm sorry.
To Take 1: I harbor no hard feelings, regardless of whatever reason you seem to hate me so much. I hope in the future that you can accept dissenting opinion without resorting to Ad hominem attacks. It's very easy to disagree with someone, and substantiate one's own opinion by insulting another's intellect, like you did with dispatch. I never personally attacked you. Not even once. Yet in your post (117) you strip down all of my dialogue for the sole purpose of degrading my character. Was that really necessary? And did it make your assertion that AVID is solid software any more correct?
Again, in the interest of peace on the boards, I wish you the best, and if AVID works for you, use it in good health, and enjoy. In two years, who knows, I may be an AVID fanboy again, as well.
And to anyone reading this post. I hope this intimates a true intent to bury the hatchet, and if it does not, then I have failed, but at least I can state with certainty that I tried without any intention of insult, directly or by insinuation, to anyone else. And, with respect to any and all opinion on this board.
Before you go smashing software you better be up on your facts dude. Avid products produce more than 85% of everything you see on TV and on the big screen. If the product sucked like you errantly claim, believe me, we wouldn't be using it using it at all. The fact that it is stable and reliable is why we use it.
Don't know why you had a bad experience but in the big scheme of things you are in the minority. We just finished posting two different HD television series (23 episodes). One in 1080i (XDCam HD) the other in 720p/59.94 (P2/Firestore). One series was on MAC the other on PC. The turnaround time was 6 weeks. Both systems were flawless.
If you don't like Avid thats fine, you have the right to choose what you want. But don't go disin' it when its obvious you don't have a clue of what your talking about.
'Nuf said." - Take 1
I didn't flame anyone. I put up my opinion with the explicit corollary that it was only my opinion, and then you posted the quote above. I then commented about how the state of flamers on boards, and you retorted with post #117; which I think anyone would agree was one big unprovoked bonfire.
I'm sorry you're so angry. I never meant to offend you personally, but it seems you took it that way. I use biofeedback to control my stress, which is a very effective tool for managing anger. Yoga is also nice. For your own health, I hope you can relax.
BACK ON TOPIC:
It does sound like AVID is retooling to meet the needs of its customers. I used media composer for a few years, and it is more stable than Xpress pro IMO.
I really do hope AVID get's things back on the stable side, because as I said in three seperate posts, they still have the best interface, and the best media management. I think for now FCP has the best suite for a less expensive DI solution. However, if I had a choice between a rock solid AVID system, and FCP, I'd take AVID in a heartbeat.
Therefore it makes sense that if one has a good experience with AVID, the features (and color correction) are superior to FCP. That's one thing I forgot to mention. The CC in Xpress Pro is simply amazing, and, at least for my applications, even Apple Color doesn't come close to AVID's symphony-ized tools. Again, IMO.
I always hope any software package can improve, and specifically AVID vs. FCP: Everyone benefits from meaningful competition. So I don't know where anyone got the idea that I'm rooting for one piece of software or another. If I didn't make that clear, I'm sorry.
To Take 1: I harbor no hard feelings, regardless of whatever reason you seem to hate me so much. I hope in the future that you can accept dissenting opinion without resorting to Ad hominem attacks. It's very easy to disagree with someone, and substantiate one's own opinion by insulting another's intellect, like you did with dispatch. I never personally attacked you. Not even once. Yet in your post (117) you strip down all of my dialogue for the sole purpose of degrading my character. Was that really necessary? And did it make your assertion that AVID is solid software any more correct?
Again, in the interest of peace on the boards, I wish you the best, and if AVID works for you, use it in good health, and enjoy. In two years, who knows, I may be an AVID fanboy again, as well.
And to anyone reading this post. I hope this intimates a true intent to bury the hatchet, and if it does not, then I have failed, but at least I can state with certainty that I tried without any intention of insult, directly or by insinuation, to anyone else. And, with respect to any and all opinion on this board.
arrestthisman
Well-known member
Welcome to the boards!
The learning curve with AVID is a bit steep for some, but fairly easy for others. Honestly, coming from FCP it should not be difficult for you. The sensibilities are a little different, though.
FCP is much more, "Mouse based." AVID is far more reliant on shortcuts on the keyboard for the purpose of speed.
Your existing box sounds well up to task for editing. You may want more RAM (4GB) for editing high-bitrate HD. And, of course, consult the AVID website for the specs needed. You may also need more storage space, and I would not recommending using your system drive for storing/editing video.
AVID is a great choice for going PRO to get work editing. It is still considered the industry "standard." Feel free to PM with any questions. Also, this board is a great resource for info. the Docs with AVID are very good, too, so if you can get your hands on those before you buy, you'll have a good idea of what you'll be getting into.
Again, welcome, and take care.
Postmaster
Dark Side of the Camera
That thread sounds like a religious disput to me.
A good editor can make a feature film in MS Movie Maker or Nero Vision.
Come on, some of the best films where done on Moviolas and Steenbecks.
NLEs are nice, comfortable, quick and fun - but it´s the editor that makes the difference not the NLE.
Try them all out - see how they feel (forget technical specs) and buy the one that is not in your way when editing.
my ct2
Frank
A good editor can make a feature film in MS Movie Maker or Nero Vision.
Come on, some of the best films where done on Moviolas and Steenbecks.
NLEs are nice, comfortable, quick and fun - but it´s the editor that makes the difference not the NLE.
Try them all out - see how they feel (forget technical specs) and buy the one that is not in your way when editing.
my ct2
Frank
I agree that one size does not fit all. This is as true for the dvxuser community as it is for NLE choice. Many of the users here are filmmakers and many are just starting out and looking on getting into the industry. If you're a filmmaker then you should absolutely choose the tool that you're most comfortable with. But if you're seeking editorial work from other companies then you should learn both FCP and Avid. I have nothing against Vegas, Premiere, media 100 or any other NLE. The problem is there are very few jobs out there for editors that don't use Avid or FCP - spend 5 mins checking various job boards and you'll see what I mean.
I agree with the spirit of your post - the ability to tell a story trumps technical acumen. Demo reels don't indicate which NLE was used in creating the work. Meaning a kid could edit his reel using Windows movie maker and it shouldn't make a difference. If I watch the reel and see the potential there I can bring him along and teach him to use whatever software my company uses. This is how it would be in Utopia. The reality is far from this. Facilities are on tight budgets with lean staffing. If the work load becomes too much to handle they bring in freelancers. Since they're busy they don't have the time to train editors that don't know the software. They want to hire someone that already knows how to use FCP or Avid. When they work load slows down and they have more time to do training they don't don't do it because it's not in the budget (spending is tightened because the cash flow is down). It's an ugly cycle, but it is what it is.
Looking forward, 5 - 10 years from now Avid or FCP may not be the top dogs. Editors should be willing to adapt and change to meet market demands. Having a death grip on a single software app is foolish and short sighted. Underneath the hood it's just a bunch of lines of code. It's not a puppy, there's no reason to become so attached to it.
If you are talking about dragging from the source window, and dropping into the timeline, you can do that in avid. The only difference there, is you need to choose which action to perform before grabbing from the source window. Hit semicolon before grabbing to splice in, and hit the quotation marks key before grabbing to overwrite. Simple.
Those shortcuts are the defaults, of course. They correspond to the yellow (splice) and red (overwrite) buttons in the bottom left of your timeline.
I don't have to hold down any shortcut key in Avid when dragging from a bin to the timeline. It's automatic and just the same as the technique in FCP. Just drag and drop. My Media Composer, by default, activates the Splice-In mode when the clip is over the timeline, and I just drop it in. Maybe it's a setting.
And if I want to override the default Splice-In, I can just hold down the [quote/apostrophe] key, as you mention, and I'm suddenly in Overwrite-mode instead. Super easy.
Oh, and another really nice feature. You can drag from the bin to the timeline OR you can drag from the source monitor to the timeline. (Probably the same in FCP, I'm not sure.) That means you don't have to drag a clip in blindly--you can drag it to the source monitor first to see what it is--it instantly opens for playback--and then from there drag it to the timeline (again my MC enters Splice-In mode automatically when dragging a clip from the source monitor, and I don't have to use any simultaneous shortcut key). Sweet.
Now, all that said, I still prefer Avid's options for setting in and out points and then hitting the splice-in key. It's so precise. I use this technique 99.999% of the time.
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adkimery
Veteran
I'm pretty sure you can do an insert or over-write edit w/o touching the mouse on any NLE not targeted at consumers. I rarely drag 'n drop in FCP and I don't remember being forced to drag 'n drop in Premiere (but I haven't used Premiere in years so my memory may be wrong).
-A
Agreed. Just some people proclaim the easy drag-and-drop options in FCP as some kind of major advantage. In this particualr case, this same function is easily accessed in Avid, as it is in other NLE's too.
adkimery
Veteran
grinner
Carbonite Member
man, how I wish that were really the case. It's how it otta be, anyway.
I would not have such a high overhead if this did not matter.
I'll break down our clientele into two catagories... those who need a video and those who want to feel like they are in show business.
The ones who need a video probably have a nephew who can bust this out in a reasonable amount of time. Certainly nothing a 150 dollar an hour suite somwhere in town could not take care of most of the time, anyway.
That other group has an annual budget they have to spend, wants to brag about what they paid per hour or per project and likes a groovy artsy vibe with cappacino smells in the background. They do like the buzzwords like avid and fcp hd and they will not go to a place sporting premiere.
It does not matter that the premiere suite is capable of doing whatever the suite they opt for can do. That is not what they are buying.
Every editor needs to know the Avid interface. It'll only increase your marketability.
Every post boutique needs a cooshy suite with a lava lamp... and it use to have to be an avid that was in there. This is what has changed. Every editor needing to know fcp is another thing that has changed. I see more gigs available for fcp editors than avid editors now and it's because more fcp suites are going up than avid suites today. If your gonna edit in house, you have to know your suite. If your gonna freelance, ya gotta know em all.
I would not have such a high overhead if this did not matter.
I'll break down our clientele into two catagories... those who need a video and those who want to feel like they are in show business.
The ones who need a video probably have a nephew who can bust this out in a reasonable amount of time. Certainly nothing a 150 dollar an hour suite somwhere in town could not take care of most of the time, anyway.
That other group has an annual budget they have to spend, wants to brag about what they paid per hour or per project and likes a groovy artsy vibe with cappacino smells in the background. They do like the buzzwords like avid and fcp hd and they will not go to a place sporting premiere.
It does not matter that the premiere suite is capable of doing whatever the suite they opt for can do. That is not what they are buying.
Every editor needs to know the Avid interface. It'll only increase your marketability.
Every post boutique needs a cooshy suite with a lava lamp... and it use to have to be an avid that was in there. This is what has changed. Every editor needing to know fcp is another thing that has changed. I see more gigs available for fcp editors than avid editors now and it's because more fcp suites are going up than avid suites today. If your gonna edit in house, you have to know your suite. If your gonna freelance, ya gotta know em all.
FatDaddy
Veteran
I agree grinner. Just made the switch to FCP after 13 years on Avid. I freelance edit Avid at broadcast facilities and with the new pricing for Avid, I can't see walking away completely. I think FCP is not that bad of a program and I like the feeling of people other than Apple actually making products to support your editing choice (wow, what a concept). Maybe one day will make a complete switch, but for now I need to know and use both.
grinner
Carbonite Member
Nobody is poised better than adobe to dominate the NLE world. They, by far, have been the company that has stayed on the cutting edge since buying CoSa in '95.
did you see where they now offrer photoshop online?
genius. I have expected them to be the ones to buy Avid for quite some time now.
we shall see.
did you see where they now offrer photoshop online?
genius. I have expected them to be the ones to buy Avid for quite some time now.
we shall see.
saturnin
Well-known member
it is not a myth its reality. Clients are very picky, even tho u might have a killer reel tht u did on movie maker, they wont hire you because they want to have FCP. ITs a stigma wich is super lame. I've lost jobs becuse of not having FCP, i am actually thining of gettin mac pro for my next edit suite with fcp. I cant let these jobs go by. It sux but its reality, clients are picky for whatever reason. Its all mental @ the end. FCP/Premire/Avid/Vegas, if you are a good editor it dont matter what u edit on, or does it?!
dory_breaux
Todd Wannabe
Hey man, I'm in the same boat, the three things keeping me from going Avid are cost of hardware, my skill with Adobe CS3 and the learning curve of Avid. My friend who is a professional editor said he'd give me his MC disk and dongle cause he's getting the newest version or something, but I still dont know....