The wisdom or lack of to buy a NTSC GH2 in a Pal country.

Danielvilliers

Danielvilliers

Veteran
Thanks to all that can help. I know that it seems to be quite a stupid decision, but where I live, I am having difficulty to be able to get a Pal Gh2 online. I don' t know Europe seller shipping internationally, the prices are high and if I get someone to buy it for me I will have to pay double taxation, the local tax and my country tax. The price would be insane with the 14-140 and also the 30 min limit. It has started to pop out on ebay but until now the seller from Hong-kong don' t ship to my country. I am already a good Bh customer and intend to buy some equipment at the start of next year when it is supposed to be available.

So I would like to know how much problem to convert the ntsc footage to pal. I have seen that it was quite easy to convert the 24p footage to 25p buy accelerating it by 4% and dealing with the voice pitch (which most in Pal land will have to do because of the lack of native 25p). But what about 60i to 50i footage? I don' t really want to use it because I intend to shoot mainly narratives and some reportage but I never know.

Hopping also that we get a patch that would remove the region code like on the gh1. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.
 
Daniel,

My first question to you, how do you intend for your footage to be viewed by your audience? Will this be broadcast, or physical media (dvd) or will you possibly be web based for the viewing? Web based, as far as I understand, doesn't care whether it is PAL or NTSC. I would think your medium might be the first thing to look at, then go from there.
 
ChipThome said:
Daniel,

My first question to you, how do you intend for your footage to be viewed by your audience? Will this be broadcast, or physical media (dvd) or will you possibly be web based for the viewing? Web based, as far as I understand, doesn't care whether it is PAL or NTSC. I would think your medium might be the first thing to look at, then go from there.
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Thanks for your reply. I have some short movies that I intend to work on them next year. Where it will be viewed and how I don' t know exactly. I would like it to be someday on theatrical display at film festival etc. Then I have some reportage I will be working on some old musician, story tellers etc to show their art and knowledge before it goes. Then I have contact to do music videos. The broadcast here is still mostly SD, surely 50i. I am a photographer by profession and is already in this cultural medium and people, but I want to move on the moving image now,
 
NTSC material always plays on PAL equipment, but not the other way around, as far as I know. I think that PAL systems cope fine with full NTSC material.

TO edit 24p in a 25p timeline would require adjusting all footage before importing. If you wait until completion of the edit, it'll be an ordeal to go 24p to 25p. I think you'll need to stay 24p then, but it will be fine everywhere, including online and festivals.
 
If you have to send it to broadcast to a pal 50i channel, will it be possible to convert the 60i to 50i or the 24p(25p) to 50i!!!
 
no! forget it. while the converted footage will seemingly look ok on your computer, it will not look good on TV !! You need expensive hardware to convert it correctly. You will not enjoy it, buy PAL.
 
timbook2 said:
no! forget it. while the converted footage will seemingly look ok on your computer, it will not look good on TV !! You need expensive hardware to convert it correctly. You will not enjoy it, buy PAL.
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But both the PAL and NTSC models shoot 24p in the highest quality mode don't they?
So assuming you're using that mode it doesn't make any difference which model you get.

And if you're not using the 24p mode, you should seriously consider getting a hackable GH1 - which will do high bitrate recording in any mode.

For PAL land the GH2 still has the problem of lacking 25p - which the hacked GH1 has.
 
I thought the only real usasble mode is 24p in 24 mbit so it doesn´t matter if you buy PAL or NTSC.
The difference is only 50i -> 60i mode
 
YEah, my understanding is that HD is neither PAL nor NTSC, which are SD formats.

It's a question of 1080p25 or 1080p24, and which ever you choose, both can be played at festivals or from computers.
 
I think even for me (in germany) 24p is the format to go with because I can directly go to bluray with it.
 
Lucas Adamson said:
NTSC material always plays on PAL equipment, but not the other way around, as far as I know. I think that PAL systems cope fine with full NTSC material.

TO edit 24p in a 25p timeline would require adjusting all footage before importing. If you wait until completion of the edit, it'll be an ordeal to go 24p to 25p. I think you'll need to stay 24p then, but it will be fine everywhere, including online and festivals.
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couldn't you edit on a 24p timeline, export a .mov (or whatever) at 24p, then conform the .mov using cinema tools to 25p?
 
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I live in the US and I've never used NTSC's 30P or 60i for anything (other than faking slow-mo). I always shoot and edit at 24P. The only time I use 60P is for slow-mo and it's slower when played back than 50P would be, (hence more useful, right?). Even when I was still using my DVX, I would shoot 24PA and edit native 24 (ok, technically 23.976, but not a big deal with cinema tools). Unless your stuff will be broadcast on the BBC, what difference does it make?

EDIT: forgive my ignorance, as I've never shot anything for PAL use...
 
24p here. I edit in 24p and then get a finished product - if you need to go to broadcast PAL (25p and then 50i ) you can speed it up 4% using for example Cineform or other tools and maintain the pitch of your audio if desired. Otherwise it's about a semi tone difference in pitch .

The thing to watch for is mainly strobing lights. 50 hz power/lighting and a 60i camera can be a really difficult thing to nail.
 
henryolonga said:
24p here. If you need to go to broadcast PAL (25p and then 50i ) you can speed it up 4% using for example in Cineform or other tools and maintain the pitch of your audio if desired. Otherwise it's about a semi tone difference in pitch .
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a whole semi tone ? that's quite a lot of pitch for 4%...
so can you still just speed it up on some software and remain in the same tone without loosing quality ? have you tried it ?
 
henryolonga said:
24p here. I edit in 24p and then get a finished product - if you need to go to broadcast PAL (25p and then 50i ) you can speed it up 4% using for example Cineform or other tools and maintain the pitch of your audio if desired. Otherwise it's about a semi tone difference in pitch .
Click to expand...

I'd be very interested to hear your workflow from 24p to 50i ... and how it looks on a professional 1080i monitor.
 
24p is not a problem if you do one camera production. If you shoot multicam and need to combine 24p with 25p/50i - that might turn into a PITA. Not that bad if you do it occasionally, but on a regular basis - conversion is a huge flaw in the workflow, a major waste of time.

Danielvilliers - Have you checked Australian ebay.co.au? There are quite a few vendors from Hong Kong and Taiwan selling unlimited PAL models worldwide (with some exceptions, however). Aside from Japanese NTSC versions that are usually cheaper.
 
zigizigi said:
24p is not a problem if you do one camera production. If you shoot multicam and need to combine 24p with 25p/50i - that might turn into a PITA. Not that bad if you do it occasionally, but on a regular basis - conversion is a huge flaw in the workflow, a major waste of time.
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So what's your conversion process 24p to 50i (used less than occasionally)? And how's it compare to footage captured in 50i?
 
Currently I don't have an NTSC camera. I used to have two HV20s that I used as B and C companions to my XHA1 for shooting theatrical performances. One of them was NTSC. I utilized TMPGEnc as a converter. The quality is not bad at all, while the workflow is poor the batch capabilities aren't stunning. I used that 24p cam for overall long shots made from a tripod, so I'm not sure how TMPGenc conversion deals with fast motion, handheld shots etc, but for that particular purpose I couldn't tell the difference if I occasionally had two shots of the same size, 25p and converted 24p on the neighbor tracks. But you MUST convert 24p footage prior to use it in a 25p project. At least with Sony Vegas - it only has frame blending, so 24p footage simply dropped on the timeline in a 25p project will have awful ghost tails in any motion scene.

I only did that type of job few times a year and was quite happy with the results but I replaced that NTCS cam with PAL model on the first occasion. Just for the sake of convenience and faster workflow.
 
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