The Visitor - by JTyner & EditPhish

[Blaine]

Now that I'm getting around to the second round of viewing I'm going to try to make some constructive comments. I haven't read everybody's comments so if I repeat something, forgive me. Or better yet take it as something more people are seeing.

Your opening shots of the houses was a little disorienting to me. It needed to be slowed down some.

I love "Lame" magazine and Financiing for Dummies.

I liked the father's acting better than the little girl. She seemed to be a bit stiff and forcing her lines. He pulled off the sleezy money grabber well.

I actually thought the alien killing the father took away from the humor of the whole thing. I felt almost like a "way out." I think it would have been funnier leaving the alien "in debt" to his landlord. But that may just be me.

I DID enjoy watching this.

 

[EditPhish]

I thought that the actors were well suited
for the tongue-in-cheek tone of the film.

Thanks

I felt a hint of a Ray Ramano vibe from Tony. This could be from his voice pattern, but I think it was more in the delivery. This is definitely a positive...Ramano is one of the few comedians today that I would consider to be of the old school of comedy.

Thanks... I'll pass it along to him. This is his kind of humor in life as well, so it suits him. He's working on not overacting things though.

The sight gags worked IMO.

We tried

I thing the story was well thought out. It reminded me of the SNL skit where Gilda Radner had gypsies under her bed, and a "monster" In her closet. I liked the "double twist" ending. The father being privy to the alien's presence may not have caught every viewer off guard, but I'd wager that the alien's "renewal" of his lease agreement with a ray gun was for many (I know it was for me.)

Cheers on a fun little film that left me smiling.

While we didn't really script or storyboard it, we DID plan it out, and everything was thought out ahead of time of how we wanted it to play through -- so thanks for noticing!

I'm glad you enjoyed it, thanks for the comment.

Oh, and that dad was EVIL. I mean, making his daughter go crazy, selling off her belongings... Damn. He deserved that 1.21 giga-watt death.

Yup, kinda what we were going for. No one was supposed to feel sorry for him.

Now that I'm getting around to the second round of viewing I'm going to try to make some constructive comments. I haven't read everybody's comments so if I repeat something, forgive me. Or better yet take it as something more people are seeing.

Your opening shots of the houses was a little disorienting to me. It needed to be slowed down some.

Yeah, I commented on this above too... I think it played better in our imagination than on screen... or at least it didn't come out as good as we hoped.

I love "Lame" magazine and Financiing for Dummies.

Was actually Filmmaking for Dummies... but Financing would have worked too!

I liked the father's acting better than the little girl. She seemed to be a bit stiff and forcing her lines. He pulled off the sleezy money grabber well.

It's interesting how some people liked her better and some liked the dad better. She's actually more serious about acting than he is... and both of them are comfortable in front of the camera. It's a matter of learning (and practicing) at playing things naturally. And we KNOW we have to challenge ourselves to find more actors.

I actually thought the alien killing the father took away from the humor of the whole thing. I felt almost like a "way out." I think it would have been funnier leaving the alien "in debt" to his landlord. But that may just be me.

I DID enjoy watching this.

LOL he deserved to be zapped hehehe... see above replies.
I see your point though... there were several ways we could have taken it, and in the end we decided on vaporizing him. He was so annoying in lecturing the alien there was no way the alien WASN'T going to zap him.... hehehe

Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for the comments!

 

[Blaine]

Was actually Filmmaking for Dummies... but Financing would have worked too!

D'oh! My bad. I was so into his financial shenanigans that I totally misread that.

 

[macgregor]

Hey, the script was fun and the ending nice!

 

[conrad_johnson]

Hey - I just watched your short. It had a cute story - good job. Good job making the girl feel "alone" in your framing. At first, the framing seemed off-putting but then it began to make sense, so I'll assume you were doing the unconventional framing on purpose! Everything else was pretty good. The CGI stuff was not that great, but given the humor of the piece I don't think it matters. Hooray for making your aliens crash into Wal-Mart - very funny.

 

[EditPhish]

Thanks Macgregor... appreciate your comments. Glad you thought it was fun.

Conrad... I'll say thanks, but I can't say we consciously chose the framing we did to make her seem "alone" ...could have been subconscious... hmmm, have to think about that... but I'd love to hear more about what you initially didn't like about it. I know our CGI wasn't too impressive (LOL)... I was fairly happy with it just because it was our first attempt at it, but I *know* there's lots of room for improvement. Not sure creating CGI is a natural talent I have anyway

Thanks for watching!

 

[Z B Brox]

This was cute, I enjoyed it. The acting is a bit weird for me. I instantly pegged the girl as pretty good, and for some reason she sticks out in my mind as being rpetty good despite several times I thought her lines fell flat. I think she just had a really good charisma around her, she felt natural, like someone you know, but just needed work on her deliveries. Acting on the father bothered me, but as the film got funnier that mattered less.

I loved the props and other touches, and most of the effects were at least good enough to match the tone of the film, so they never brought me out of it.

What else is there, really? I laughed, I bought into the story, I loved the alien hand. Nice work.

 

[EditPhish]

Thanks ZB Brox... appreciate the comments. We're always looking for areas of improvement so every reply helps.

Thanks for noticing the props and little touches we added/paid attention to... was important to us to sell the story in multiple ways

Glad you laughed and enjoyed it!

 

[EditPhish]

Just decided to post some screenshots cause it's the first time I'm doing so... Not that they're all that impressive (hehe)

 

[Brandon Rice]

I like the ship crashed into WalMart! HAHA! Nice shots!

 

[EditPhish]

Thanks

 

[conrad_johnson]

Conrad... I'll say thanks, but I can't say we consciously chose the framing we did to make her seem "alone" ...could have been subconscious... hmmm, have to think about that... but I'd love to hear more about what you initially didn't like about it.

Here are some spots -

The zoom in on the radio - it cuts off their heads just as they react.

The shot-reverse shots of dad and child are a little off when they're talking on the table.

Another thing that threw me off initially was that it frequently appears that they are looking directly at the camera.

Many of the edits jump around a lot - camera angles change for no reason, etc.

In general, I would argue that editing, framing and angles should make the production seem invisible. But, of course, you can choose to make it more visible by choosing unconventional editing/framing/angles. What was initially off-putting and seemed like it could be chalked up to subpar production later contributed to the feel of the video (the weird, head-on framing of the girl made her seem more alone).

Hopefully that answers your question!

 

[Beat Takeshi]

I liked this but I didnt understand why the pops was taking money for stuff he probably bought himself. The girl did a good job with the acting I thought. She was a little monotone but I think that fit with her presence. The pops looked like he was hamming it up too much. He kept looking up in the air which didnt fit.
I think the eye part would be stronger if you just had the sideways view. It had a disturbing feel to it but it was weakened by the regular eye shots.
The opening dolly in I think should have been a dolly out away from the radio revealing the 2 people at the table.
You definitly got me not liking the pops and the ending fits.
The audio needed to be better.

The dancing alien can be one of those viral videos for emails. It made me laugh.
Good job.

Is media really the last names? Classic.

 

[iSTy]

This was a good clear picture. and although the acting wasn't particularly good the sound was cleare. This was another film I liked.

 

[EditPhish]

The zoom in on the radio - it cuts off their heads just as they react.

The shot-reverse shots of dad and child are a little off when they're talking on the table.

Another thing that threw me off initially was that it frequently appears that they are looking directly at the camera.

Many of the edits jump around a lot - camera angles change for no reason, etc.

In general, I would argue that editing, framing and angles should make the production seem invisible. But, of course, you can choose to make it more visible by choosing unconventional editing/framing/angles. What was initially off-putting and seemed like it could be chalked up to subpar production later contributed to the feel of the video (the weird, head-on framing of the girl made her seem more alone).

Hopefully that answers your question!

Thanks Conrad...

The dolly shot at the beginning and the way we framed it was intentional... maybe it's a "novice" choice, I dunno, but our focus was the radio and the broadcast, and the little touch of the pencil was supposed to pull you that much more into the radio... if it didn't work, maybe it wasn't the best choice :happy: -- I'll rewatch it again and try to see what you see.

Yes, someone else mentioned framing choices when going back and forth with dialogue.... I'll have to watch that more to make sure it doesn't become disorienting. I thought I'd done a good job keeping that in mind, but a few people have mentioned it so obviously not... something I will DEFINITELY try to pay that much more attention to in the future.

As for the edits jumping around... yup, there are a few spots I think I went a little overboard with unneccessary edits. I think I was trying to take it to a new level for us, and tried too hard in spots... and it shows. Do you think I did an okay job avoiding jump cuts (other than the night scene when they were intentional)? Did it seem to piece together okay other than being too many cuts in spots? I thought I did a pretty good job of keeping the story moving, even if in spots it was TOO much. What do you think?

I have a really hard time being objective about whether the editings/framing etc. was "invisible" or not, so I really do appreciate your input and will think about that more in the future. I'd be interested to hear if others agree that it was too "visible".

I liked this but I didnt understand why the pops was taking money for stuff he probably bought himself. The girl did a good job with the acting I thought. She was a little monotone but I think that fit with her presence. The pops looked like he was hamming it up too much. He kept looking up in the air which didnt fit.
I think the eye part would be stronger if you just had the sideways view. It had a disturbing feel to it but it was weakened by the regular eye shots.
The opening dolly in I think should have been a dolly out away from the radio revealing the 2 people at the table.
You definitly got me not liking the pops and the ending fits.
The audio needed to be better.

The dancing alien can be one of those viral videos for emails. It made me laugh.
Good job.

Hi Aram...

I think maybe you missed what was going on in some of the story... Dad was a money-whore and that's why he was renting out the "apartment under the bed" to the alien, unknowingly to the daughter... but the alien was stealing stuff from the daughter, which is why the alien gets the lecture from dad at the end and ends up a little aggrevated (and why dad is asking him to be paid for the stuff) -- could totally be our fault for not explaning the store thoroughly enough, so I do appreciate your comments.

The girl actually has quite a bit of experience acting, but is still young, and yup, Dad was a ham... he's ALWAYS a ham... LOL :laugh:

Dolly in vs. dolly out... see above reply -- we were pretty specific in making the choice we did. We didn't want your focus to yet be on the people. But I am going to go back and watch and try to see what you and Conrad saw.

I think our nighttime scene needed improvements, so I agree with you. I was exceptionally happy with the lighting, but we were rushed in filming it (and it was already our second round of shooting it since the first time our lighting was terrible). I cannot disagree that there are things we did wrong there.

I'm really interested that you think the audio could have been better... this was an area we paid a LOT of attention to, so that dialogue wasn't too low or too loud... and we were very pleased with the score. I know we need to pay more attention to getting the mic closer to the actors (we had some echoey/hollow spots), but I'd like to hear what other areas you thought we could improve in with audio.

This was a good clear picture. and although the acting wasn't particularly good the sound was cleare. This was another film I liked.

Thanks... glad you enjoyed it and thought the sound and picture were clear.


Thanks everyone!

 

[jamestmather]

Hi editphish - just to say I enjoyed your film and loved the small details (you know the ones - books, mags etc) - also liked your track in on the radio which lost the actors - reminds me of early spielberg.

Further, despite some people riffing on the production values I found the film visually very competent unlike other films which seem to be getting better press for less competent lighting etc so disregard the nay sayers. (ie: fancy colour correction is not good cinematography) Your lighting on actors is generally good with nice eyelights - something frequently overlooked in the lighting of the films here and crucial in pro film production - (next time try to pull them away from the walls, get some depth to those backgrounds and you'll be cooking) Your score is also very atmospheric, well chosen and punctuated the story nicely.

Lastly have to say I found the story more competently presented than some others in the fest - The throughline was clear and some nice gags - one of the few I've made it to the end of without fast forwarding or finding myself completely lost at the plot.

Well done and keep it up.

James

 

[Captain KickAss]

This was quite the twisted but enjoyable film. The production values and acting were not exactly top notch, and the story was so-so, but all in all, I still enjoyed watching this one.

 

[Beat Takeshi]

Hi Edit,
I thought the part at the end where he was talking to the alien was not the best audio. I guess thats why i missed the reason he was taking the money. Everything else was good except I couldnt understand a few parts. So i guess the comment on the audio isnt about it as a whole but I guess it effected me because it was the punchline that got lost.
As james said, I did like all the little details that were in there like what he mentioned and the story was complete.

 

[EditPhish]

Hi editphish - just to say I enjoyed your film and loved the small details (you know the ones - books, mags etc) - also liked your track in on the radio which lost the actors - reminds me of early spielberg.

James,

Huge compliment there... and thanks! Also, thanks for noticing our "details" throughout... we did a lot of planning so they all worked out/timed our right (like the radio broadcast and the TV news).

Further, despite some people riffing on the production values I found the film visually very competent unlike other films which seem to be getting better press for less competent lighting etc so disregard the nay sayers. (ie: fancy colour correction is not good cinematography) Your lighting on actors is generally good with nice eyelights - something frequently overlooked in the lighting of the films here and crucial in pro film production - (next time try to pull them away from the walls, get some depth to those backgrounds and you'll be cooking) Your score is also very atmospheric, well chosen and punctuated the story nicely.

Thank you for your kind words. We felt we did a good job overall... and for US we were taking it to the next level... and hopefully next time it will be to an even better one! I agree with you, fancy color correction is NOT a good story or cinematography.

Thanks for noticing our attention to details... while we didn't have a lighting rig then, we did pay attention to lighting. I agree with you about space... LOL but that was just a limitation of our "set" (aka. our house). Next time we're taking it outside these four walls :happy:

Lastly have to say I found the story more competently presented than some others in the fest - The throughline was clear and some nice gags - one of the few I've made it to the end of without fast forwarding or finding myself completely lost at the plot.
Well done and keep it up.

And thanks again... I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts. Thanks for noticing the music too... it's one of those really underappreciated parts of any film. It's only when it's awful that you tend to notice it enough to comment... but we really did try to pay close attention to every aspect of our film... sound and music included.

This was quite the twisted but enjoyable film. The production values and acting were not exactly top notch, and the story was so-so, but all in all, I still enjoyed watching this one.

LOL, love your nickname.
Thanks for watching and glad you enjoyed it... and for your comments. With each movie we only hope to get better :thumbsup:

Hi Edit,
I thought the part at the end where he was talking to the alien was not the best audio. I guess thats why i missed the reason he was taking the money. Everything else was good except I couldnt understand a few parts. So i guess the comment on the audio isnt about it as a whole but I guess it effected me because it was the punchline that got lost.
As james said, I did like all the little details that were in there like what he mentioned and the story was complete.

Hi Aram :happy:
I can appreciate what you're saying... I think it wasn't as much the audio dialogue got too low as it was we went a little agressive on the music... and maybe it was a tad too aggressive. It was one of those things we couldn't decide on for sure.

Thanks everyone for a great time and a good challenge for US... we're already looking forward to Hero-Fest...

... and still open to any comments and criticisms people are willing to give on "The Visitor".

 

[conrad_johnson]

Do you think I did an okay job avoiding jump cuts (other than the night scene when they were intentional)? Did it seem to piece together okay other than being too many cuts in spots? I thought I did a pretty good job of keeping the story moving, even if in spots it was TOO much. What do you think?

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Overall, your video kept my attention, so the editing overall did a good job of keeping the story moving. There were just several unconventional choices in framing and camera angle, and as such in choices for how to edit together these shots. For example, there are shots where there is an over the shoulder of the dad (from girl's perspective), but the reverse shot is not an over the shoulder of the girl from dad's perspective (as would feel more natural). Another unnatural shot was where you'd see one somewhat natural angle of the dad and it would cut to a lower angle looking up at the dad, which is disorienting.

Another example of some unconventional framing is in the aforementioned early table shot - in the shot with radio in the center, you can still see a little bit of the dad and daughter (or in the case of the dad, the book he is holding). That makes the framing seem unintentional - it would be better to either have all of the dad/girl in the shot, or not have them in the shot at all.

Another example is that angles change seemingly for no reason. For example, when dad is at the table at one point early on, it switches from a side angle of his face to a straight-on angle of his face. This is also disorienting. This also happens when he's looking at the magazine - one shot is straight-on, then the next shot is slightly from his side, even though the size of his body in the frame is about the same.

Overall, these are artistic choices, so there's not really a right or wrong. These are just some examples of things that didn't look right to me. I would say as a general rule, when things are supposed to feel safe and "normal" in the story (ie when she's talking with her dad), you should use conventional framing and camera tricks. When things are supposed to feel alienating, (ie monster under the bed), the unconventional angles, framing, cuts, etc. make sense whereas before they didn't - which is why your jump cuts in that night scene are very effective.

I don't think you had a problem with having too many cuts (sorry if I alluded to that before) - in general, it's just a matter of to what angles you choose to cut and when, or it may have been a problem of thinking of continuity and "natural-ness" when deciding on camera angles/framing during intial filming.

Hopefully that helps, and doesn't seem like I'm picking you apart. The video was good, and all the components - the editing, the cinematography, etc. - told the story well.