The Video/Digital Cinema News Cycle is Eating Itself?

combatentropy said:
Thank you for your thorough treatment of the pros and cons of various DSLRs. That is exactly what I am looking for.



It is my current favorite. I began in 1990 with a shoulder camera and believed it proper. When the VX1000 came out, its digital tape was super cool, but I thought the body style an ergonomic disaster. Basically, your hand gets tired. It was its lowly cousin the TRV900 that changed my mind, although it took a while.

Your first guess is to hold it like the VX1000, and therefore it suffers from the same flaw: your hand gets tired. A solution is the monopod: portable but steady (at least, steady enough for what they were paying me). But you need both a ball-joint head and a slide-off mount to overcome a monopod's awkwardnesses.

Some time later I discovered that my body can serve as a monopod. Instead of holding the TRV900 (or similar handicam) in its strap, tuck your hand beneath the lens and push its battery against your chest. With a DSLR the flip screen is too close to your chest to see. With a handicam, especially when a ridiculously long 5-hour battery is attached to the back, the flipscreen is in a good position if you just look down.

Stability. Mobility. All in one.
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I had the TRV-900, I loved that little camera! I used it a lot for a C camera on shoots with much larger, heavier cameras like Digital Betacams and even film cameras. I even had the SteadicamJR for it and messed with that as B and C camera for years. Those were back in the days when I was directing a lot more
and hired great DPs instead of doing it myself. I used to just operate B and C cameras for fun and got some great results with that little camera. It was kind of a little beast for it's time. I always liked it better than the VX-1000, which to me, had terrible ergos and the image was just ok and the sound was horrifically bad.
The TRV-900 had better sound quality.
 
My first camera was the VX1000. Agree on ergo and image, especially in lowlight. Loved it but got jealous once the Canon XL-1 hit the market. ;). I think these 2 cameras plus the announcement of Final Cut Pro was the start of low cost video production in the late 90's early 2000's. The DVX100 finally broke the 24fps barrier and it just took off from there. The meaning of online editing then(broadcast/film) is far different from today's online editing(youtube, etc).

SMH of even the mention of, "8K is here". I just put in a Blu-Ray of Avatar or Blue Planet on my HDTV and I just laugh and say...whatever.
 
boo said:
My first camera was the VX1000. Agree on ergo and image, especially in lowlight. Loved it but got jealous once the Canon XL-1 hit the market. ;). I think these 2 cameras plus the announcement of Final Cut Pro was the start of low cost video production in the late 90's early 2000's. The DVX100 finally broke the 24fps barrier and it just took off from there. The meaning of online editing then(broadcast/film) is far different from today's online editing(youtube, etc).

SMH of even the mention of, "8K is here". I just put in a Blu-Ray of Avatar or Blue Planet on my HDTV and I just laugh and say...whatever.
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I remember shortly after going freelance and buying my first Betacam, one of the staff photogs at the station I interned then freelanced for, left and took a video job with the county and then he bought a VX-1000 to do side jobs with. I always remember him coming in on Friday nights when I was coming back with my (usually) two HS football games and he had his games and he had to plug the camera up into a breakout box to ingest, in real-time, his footage into the Avid, to cut it. Of course, back then, all ingest was pretty much just playing out of a deck in real-time.
 
It's good to hear that others have fond memories of the TRV900.

James0b57 said:
You also mentioned the posture of “bowing” was good for documentary, as it is less offensive that the bazooka of shoulder mount.
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I forgot I said that. In fact I've said it three times, in 2010, 2012, and 2015. They even have illustrations that I thought about making for this thread. For example, when I said, "I discovered that my body can serve as a monopod. Instead of holding the TRV900 (or similar handicam) in its strap, tuck your hand beneath the lens and push its battery against your chest," I wanted to make a drawing or take a photo to show what I mean. It turns out I already had.

hand-holding-white.png


At the beginning this thread I said it has got to the point to where I can just reply with links to old posts. Another has a photo of the XA-10, which I've always thought is pretty close to my ideal.

attachment.php


Don't fixate on its details. To make it perfect, I would like the lens interchangeable, the viewfinder moved up or removable so that you could fit a Sony L-series battery, the body made out of metal. USB-C for power. Uncompressed RAW to CFexpress. Global Shutter. $2000-$3000?

Although, the size of a dslr is small enough, that it can be made to operate like a handycam with an accesory, but a handycam can’t be modified to do what a dslr does.
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That may be true. The frankenrigs with their dangly cables scare me away, but perhaps there is a tasteful combination of accessories that would turn a DSLR into something close enough to my ideal.
 
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combatentropy said:
hand-holding-white.png


...the XA-10, which I've always thought is pretty close to my ideal.

attachment.php


Don't fixate on its details. To make it perfect, I would like the lens interchangeable, the viewfinder moved up or removable so that you could fit a Sony L-series battery, the body made out of metal. USB-C for power. Uncompressed RAW to CFexpress. Global Shutter. $2000-$3000?
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It is a good way to shoot. Definitely not for every situation, but no camera really is. For me, i find it fatiguing for longer work days, but fine for bursts, or projects where i am dictating when to roll and what to capture.


combatentropy said:
That may be true. The frankenrigs with their dangly cables scare me away, but perhaps there is a tasteful combination of accessories that would turn a DSLR into something close enough to my ideal.
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The idea is to get away from the poor i/o’s on dslr bodies. Micro hdmi sticking out the operator’s side is a laughable joke. Only tolerated because we have maintained for the last decade that a dslr is a hack and not a “real” tool. Meanwhile the dslr form has all but taken over.

Manufacturers and camera people haven’t taken a serious look at dslr body style yet. Maybe we aren’t there yet tech wise, maybe we just won’t pay the extra $$$ to have it.
 
Every single professional has incorporated a dslr style camera into their workflow at some point. If they could be an A-Cam, they would be. However, their i/o interface and some controls are stills photography based. Hybrid cameras are not a final solution either. There has to be a video first dslr style body for it to work.
 
James0b57 said:
Every single professional has incorporated a dslr style camera into their workflow at some point. If they could be an A-Cam, they would be. However, their i/o interface and some controls are stills photography based. Hybrid cameras are not a final solution either. There has to be a video first dslr style body for it to work.
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With 3D printing someone could take a DSLR apart and reinstall into a custom 3D printed body, with 100% new controls too (buttons are easy, the dials can be reverse engineered). A bit of work with unlimited possibilities.

Sony built what seemed like a good improvement over DSLRs for interchangeable lens cameras:
048b77c76a01b7d80fbb4ceda0ff414a

VG900 was full frame:
8bc14a23b59ba9a582b225479697d8bc.jpeg


However they crippled the image quality. If Sony put A7S III level specs (+ Venice color) into a camera with that form factor- would it sell well today?
 
When designing a camera, you have to ask one question before considering too many other factors:

Is an EVF essential?


If “NO”, then you can do what ever you want. If “YES, an EVF is essential”, then you have to consider how the camera will feel and operate when using the EVF.


A camcorder with an interchangeable lens mount is front heavy. A dslr shape has far more appropriate balance.

A handycam only works with tiny light weight lenses. A dslr can accomodate more types of lenses before it gets out of whack.
 
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Gweilo66 said:
Follows your definition. Sorry.
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Think about all the things we HATE about DSLR’s....

- hdmi and 3.5mm connections
- video and audio cables sticking out the side
- fixed dim screen on the back
- pinky hanging off the grip
- bad battery life
- need for a cage or other add-ons to operate


The BMPCC’s have ALL of those flaws


Now, think about what we LOVE about DSLR’s...
- intergrated low profile yet high quality evf
On larger pro dslr bodies:
- usable battery life
- full size comfortable grip
- room for better i/o connections
- intuitive button layout that is built on each companies long history

...the BMPCC’s have NONE of those.


Black magic is a camera in a box. They give raw options on a budget, that is about it. They bring nothing in ergonomics except simple menus. Black Magic did not improve on the DSLR, they made a camera in a box.
 
James0b57 said:
A camcorder with an interchangeable lens mount is front heavy
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Can you elaborate?

I was imagining the grip on both a DSLR and a handicam ends right before the lens mount. Are you thinking of an add-on handle on a DSLR that goes from the body, alongside the lens, on the right side? Or maybe you're just talking about holding the lens with one hand or the other.

If you're right, then I'm happy to discard my dream of a handicam with interchangeable lens and just try to find the right DSLR.
 
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