The tape lubricant myth

S

skippyfetus

Carbonite Member
I always suspected that it didn't matter what kind of tape you use in your camcorder. I found it odd that the user manual never said anything about using different brands or anything about tape lubricants and they often give you every single paranoid thing you can do to keep your camera well maintained such as not leaving batteries on it and not leaving tapes inside it.

Recently, I was wondering why I can't use cheap tapes for unimportant stuff and good tapes for important stuff... makes sense to me... and hell that's what I always did with my VCR at home :) Anyway, I found a thread over at DVInfo that says that Adam Wilt says that it's a myth based on the way older tapes used to be and isn't a problem any more. This confirms what I already suspected. If Panasonic could get people to only use their kind of tapes they would. If this was true, they would give you a free Panasonic MQ tape in the box with your camera and inside the manual say: "you can only use one type of tape with your camera from now on!". Actually, I believe they have sorta been using that strategy, by not debunking the rumors and I believe that some of their cameras do come with MQ tapes.
 
Re: The tape lubricant myth

They also say shampoo, rinse, repeat.....sells more shampoo...

Always buy realpoo....ignore the smell.....


Where do you think the "only use our [horribly expensive] tapes, or ruin your camera" myth originated?
 
Re: The tape lubricant myth

I have asked several dealers about this and in most cases they where surprised at the question. Apparently it is not really an issue. They did make a point of the quality of the tape (thickness and magnetic layer composition) for reliability and storage longevity. I have also read multiple musings here about this - again, with a skeptical eye.

So - for gerenarl work, I have settled for Maxel MiniDV 60 tapes (DVM60SE) - the ones in the bright red cellopahe. At a Sam's Club you can get a package of 6 for $19.95. I bought several hundred dollars worth - and now I can use the original tape as archive - and save it as is - no more recording over. Each shoot gets fresh tape.
 
Re: The tape lubricant myth

its not really a quality of tape thing.. its a lube thing, wet or dry. doesnt matter if you use a $2 or $20 dry tape, if you mix them with wet (i.e. sony) it can cause troubles.. Its happened to me a few times. I use MQ's just because to me, 5 bucks for 60 minutes seems like a good deal to me, and the white case can be jiffy marked in a pinch without labels.
 
Re: The tape lubricant myth

First of all, any DV camera has to be able to use any DV tape. That's what the logo on the side of the camera and on the tape mean. Any tape should work in any camera, if both carry the "DV" or "miniDV" logo.

Second, "horribly expensive"? MQ's are under $6 apiece.

But third, there are many of us who have had different experiences with different tapes. I used to use Sony's in my old TRV8, and I had to grab some tapes at wal-mart one night because there were no professional tape suppliers in our neighborhood. I got some Maxells... absolutely horrible dropouts and venetian-blind scrags all through the tape.

So even though the tape should work, that doesn't always mean that it will be of the same quality. You do, occasionally, get more when you buy a higher grade.
 
Re: The tape lubricant myth

[horribly expensive].....a touch of sarcasm, included for effect....geez barry, lighten.
 
Re: The tape lubricant myth

Sorry, I probably should lighten up. Sometimes people complain about the cost of DV tapes, going "jeepers, they want six bucks?!" We used to pay $20 for the Sony's when they first came out, and I still have to shell out $10 for a five-minute BetaSP tape, so MQ's are such a screamingly cheap deal that I don't understand when people complain.

Sorry for not properly interpreting the sarcasm. I am officially "lightening up" now! :)
 
Re: The tape lubricant myth

I just bought a XL1s that hasn't been used much, but has been used with Sony tape. I'm going to continue to use Panasonic even with this camera. I'm going to use the cheapest Pansonic tapes (I've got a mountain of them in my office) for everyday stuff and MQ's when doing something important. If I have any problems I'll let you know.
 
Re: The tape lubricant myth

I have been bitten by the dry lube/wet lube thing. It is not a myth.

Tape is cheap. Content is not. You've been warned.
 
Re: The tape lubricant myth

It's not a myth, but I use sony's all the way. (Hard to find MQs around here, and the sonys are 15 bucks in our current currency, a Coke on the other hand is 1.5. So for ten Cokes a tape can be very expensive...

EDIT- BTW, as in "The Coca-Cola Company"
 
Re: The tape lubricant myth

[quote author=Jim Brennan link=board=Links;num=1099002080;start=0#11 date=10/28/04 at 18:31:39]Anybody that thinks DV tape is expensive has never shot with film.[/quote]

;D

- What does 16mm run with film and processing? About $180 for 10 minutes? ... $1080 for an hour. THAT’S an expensive tape!  ;)
 
Re: The tape lubricant myth

Well, it can be expensive if you don't think that filming something is worth six bucks. It's funny how people ***** about paying $2 a gallon in gas for their $20k vehicles, but act like using a $6 tape is nothing because "you paid $4k for your camera, what's $6". I just don't buy that argument. Hey, you paid $100k for your home, why not buy the paint that costs three times as much... it's only an extra ten bucks!

Anyway, there's a few people that say they've been a victim of tape lube damaging their equiptment. What's your proof? How do you know it was the tapes? Did you send it in for repair and did they say it was from using "dry" tapes and "wet" tapes?
 
Re: The tape lubricant myth

I only used MQ's in my DVX and the one time my assistant put a sony tape in my DVX to see what was on it, the heads got all clogged up. Wouldn't play or record anything! I had to clean the heads immediately. As soon as I did, everything worked fine... coincidence? I dont think so..
 
Re: The tape lubricant myth

Well, it's also possible that the tape was dirty or had some other problem. It's tough to pin something like that on tape lubricant. You know, whenever I have a debate like this with someone and nobody (including myself) knows what they're talking about, it's sometimes good to give the manufacturer a call. Maybe I'll just call Canon or Panasonic about this... probably Canon since they don't have such a stake in selling tapes.

I did just find this in the XL1s manual "Do not use a wet-type cleaning cassette, as this can cause damage." Is that possibly related?
 
Re: The tape lubricant myth

[quote author=Tony Hall link=board=Links;num=1099002080;start=0#13 date=10/28/04 at 18:53:49]It's funny how people ***** about paying $2 a gallon in gas for their $20k vehicles[/quote]

Yeah, those are the same dorks that gladly pay $4 for a frappalattegrande drink.
 
Re: The tape lubricant myth

Here are some links I found regarding tape lubricant. I would recommend doing a little research. The last link is good and he comes to the same conclustion that I have heard echoed in these halls.

Cheers!

;)


Why can't I use Sony ME tapes with DVCPRO equipment?
http://www.rexelvideo.com.au/faqs.htm

Quote from the above link:
"There is a problem concerning tape lubricant incompatibility between Sony tapes and DVCPRO transports. The Sony tape has been found to have increased levels of phosphorus, which is typically used as a lubricant."


At TapeAndMedia.com:

http://www.tapeandmedia.com/mini_dv_panasonic_master.asp

They say this about Panasonic tapes:

"New from Panasonic, Master Grade Mini DV tape, utilizing a new evaporation technology called S-AME (Super Advanced Metal Evaporation) that improves the videotape's magnetic density by 400% over current Panasonic MiniDV models. The S-AME technology offers three key advantages: higher output power for more precise recordings; low head wear and reduced head clogs thanks to the use of a dry-type lubricant; and superb linearity that assures high performance in severe conditions."

At www.philpang.com:

http://www.philpang.com/tips/minidv_lubricants.html

A good article "miniDV Lubricants":

" My non-scientific conclusion
You can essentially mix any tape except for Sony. If you use Sony, stick with Sony and don't use anything else and vice versa."
 
Re: The tape lubricant myth

When I owned a Sony VX-9000, I used to use both Sony and Panasonic tapes. To be honest, I never had any problems with it.
I only became aware of this problem in this forum.
Aparently, the manufacturers aren't aware of this problem. This was a problem reported by users, who have had this kind of experiences.

I have a friend, who owns a Sony TRV-900, and he also uses different tapes. Again, he has never had any problems. There was only one time, but after cleaning the head, it came back to normal, and it is still working till now.
He has owned the camera for about 3.5 years.

Well, since the DVX is a precious, I'll keep using the MQ tapes only.
 
Re: The tape lubricant myth

well ****, it seems that everyone agrees that sony tapes suck. I'm gonna run a head cleaner through the camera (maybe twice) and then stick with Panasonic tapes from now on. Of course I'll still use the cheap one's for unimportant stuff and MQ for important stuff.
 
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