The Sony FS 100. Want one, but a bit nervous

R

RW60

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Have spent mind-numbing hours the past 2-3 weeks, trying to decide just how to step up from
the Canon HV20, to something that will enable me to shoot a developing short film, and launch
a wedding video business late this year or in 2015.

I have seen numerous face-palm posts regarding the lack of a built-in ND filter on the FS 100.

But the picture...the low-light performance...ooh-la-la!

FS 100 owners, former owners...can you tell me how a typical bright summer day shoot
goes when you have to use a fader or variable ND filter?

I understand it is a hassle, but I can't get a handle on just how annoying it is, and whether
it should be a deal-killer for me.

When I think of weddings, I am sure I will appreciate what that cam can do in low light.

My alternate or Plan B cam, was/is the Canon XH A1S, but I know it is not in the same league low-light wise.

(but it has built-in ND filters at least!)

The XH A1S has some redeeming qualities and takes a much smaller initial bite out of my
budget.

No camera in my budget range (ceiling of about $4,500) is perfect.

Yes, I do need help here!

Best,
Ron
 
Hi Ron.

Never have I had such a love-hate relationship with a camera. Up front, I'm not a super-pro DP or filmmaker, I just shoot average corporate material, talking heads, low budget commercials and related. So take that into consideration when deciphering my ramblings.

In controlled situations, FS100 is a beast. It also has been called a low-light warrior with good cause. I've had great success with interviews, lit interiors, green screen, shooting behind the scenes. Outdoors, it's an f***ing nightmare for the lack of that simple built in ND. For me, even with an added ND filter, highlights are blown in many instances. There are workarounds that more experienced users can explain, but I just use a simple screw-on ND filter when I shoot outdoors. What a hassle for run & gun work. I'm not using a fader or variable NDs, so it's even more of a pain. But even with those, you have to factor in the time of screwing them onto the lens. For something high pressure like a wedding you know you have to be ready with the shot. Moving from exterior/interior and so on.....just take that into consideration.

You mention the XH A1s. How I miss the ergonomics of that camera compared to the FS100. Very well built for the price range. But the image? Meh, not even in the same ballpark. Low light? FORGET ABOUT IT. I dumped mine with the quickness but sometimes do regret that decision as it would be an OK b-cam.

I hope I haven't confused you more. You can certainly pick up an FS100 on the cheap, but is it worth it? I'm not sure. I will say when it shines, it shines.

So how about an FS700? Too much of a $$ stretch?
 
I really like what comes out of the FS100. No ND filters is less of an issue in reality unless you always crave shallow DOF. This camera is fast to operate and I could see it work great shooting weddings and corporate events. Thanks to the small and light form you can carry it with you all day without fatique.
 
Your post is in two halves - your indy flick and weddings and the like..

Indy flick - the cam is the bargain of the century - if you have time to set nice shots.

Weddings - id steer clear a mile.

Consider this, more than maybe 8stops of ND and you get IR pollution and gack/reflections flare or more closed than F11 you get diffraction and softening

The cam is base 800 ISO and you are on F16 with no ND as soon as you step out of doors.

Using the cam in Portugal we had a 2stop AND a vari on it at were still at 16 (probably at 1/200!) , the image was s*%t (lucky it was Bcam to the FS700)

White dresses, midday, sun - it is not the camera for you.

BTW I spend maybe $600 on VND and then spent another $1000 on ND solids and a matte box to control the light - such expenditure closes the gap in cost to the C100..

But to go back round in favour - even though I have an F3 the FS100 gets involved in nearly every project I do - just not the ones in the daytime!

S
 
There's a lens adapter with a built-in fader ND that was recently released by a company called HolyManta. Also, I've used Xume magnetic filter adapters for quick ND changes before. These are both good solutions for the FS100.
 
When I owned the FS100, I used the Xume system. Just a fantastic bit of gear. Not as nice as built in
ND's but OMG it is soooooo much nicer than screwing and unscrewing ND filters at every lens change.
I advise getting big (82mm ND filters) and stepping every lens to 82mm with cheap step rings. Then
get a filter holder for each lens, and an adapter on each filter and you are good to go.

I will say, I like built in ND. When I had a chance to get a B Stock FS700 with full warranty and less
than 1 hour use for $6500, I jumped on it, mainly for NDs. Slow motion and 4k was just a bonus.
But the image out of the FS100 is just great. I shot everything, corporates, weddings, sports,
talking heads, web promos and on and on with it. Tons of outdoor shooting and with the Xume
system, it's not bad. I had a couple good variable NDs (Heliopan and the new Genus Eclipse)
that made it work great for faster paced shooting. I usually carried around a little pack with
extra lenses, batteries and cards anyways so my ND filters also went in there.
 
I got somewhat interested in the FS100 after seeing some of them dirt-cheap on ebay.
How is the DR compared with the C100?

(I would prefer the FS100 because I can put a speedbooster on it and use my Leica-R primes as they were intended, with a FF-equivalent sensor; but then we're talking ISO 1600, and 10 stops of ND to shoot f/2.8 1/50s on a sunny day)
 
Hey Scott,

The love-hate thing. In a way, I imagined that scenario, since it has so many good things going for it, yet no built-in ND filter.

No worries about confusing me. I'll probably be confused until I have the chosen camera and have used it for a month or so, lol.

The FS700 is a bit outside the budget border.

Run and gun: IYO, can the HV20 serve as the B, or what I could call the "Scram Cam" - at weddings?

I have no plans to get rid of it; it has served me well and has precious little re-sale value now, anyway...

morgan_moore,

That is a rather to-the-marrow analysis. Sobering, as I have been dreamily shopping and info-gathering on the Net.

QuickHitRecord, alaskacameradude,

Thanks for the suggestions. I checked out Xume last night on their site and that option is intriguing.
I need to do more digging about Holymantra, I am sure there is more out there than the wee bit I saw on the one website.

Osslund,

Thanks for the encouraging words. The FS 100 is still on the short list...

- - -

The EX-3 is now on the short list, out of seeming necessity. I had checked out the PMW line before and somehow reached
this conclusion that they're "for broadcasters." That is probably not accurate, not 100 per cent.

It delivers in low light and the 1/2" sensors offer a nice picture. I laugh at the "chainsaw" reference of its form. "That's what it reminds me of!"

I appreciate all replies. I, like so many of you, cannot believe Sony would offer up the FS 100 without that built-in ND filter.

There are other ways, lots of other ways, they could have created separation between the 100 and the 700.

Thanks for all posts to date, really appreciate the input.

Best,
Ron
 
It is like two cameras!

Good.. (I hope!)
https://vimeo.com/74135730


Terrible.. this is after a lot of Resolve trying to get nice skin!

https://vimeo.com/75470225 password BCU

I just never cracked the FS100 in bright light this is with a 4stop formatt ND solid - I tried that against others and it is not a bad filter. But for some reason everything goes to rats*%t!

I have an EX1, F3 and FS100, all have 'problems',
EX1 - naff look
FS100 bright light
F3 - too heavy.

C100 is safe IMO - but still kind of sucks cos of the canon mount and freak ergonomics

FS700 is ok but really needs a recorder because the codec is a bit thin.
 
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Morgan,

The video - and the band - both good. Thought I heard a bit of Clash and bit of The Who thump. No regrets checking out the entire vids. Good work!

FS 100 showed its strength under what appeared to be dim lighting conditions. Very nice.

The B.U. video...well, here's where I may be completely exposed as a novice, but I thought it was fine. Those greens on the workmen were strong,
but that may be the nature of them, anyway, for all I know.

I just don't have the critical faculty at this time to slice and dice another's work. Both efforts would be ones *I* would offer up without reservation.
 
Hi,

I have the FS100 since some month after using EX-1/3 and the NEX-EA50 before.
I like the FS100 for so many things:
It's small, it's sharp, it can take nearly every lens, it can be run'n gun...

I hate the FS100 for some things:
no expanded focus button on your handgrip, no cinegammas, 8bit only

But: I paid around 2000€ used and I'm more than happy with it.

I have the Heliopan varioND screw-on filter with NDs from 0,3 up to 1,8 without any IR-pollution or reflections or whatever.
I used it in the brightest sunlight with my lens stopped down to f8 and the footage was really nice - no problems here.
By the way the base ISO is 500 and you should never have any problems unless you want f1,0 in the dessert at high noon.

The lack of the nice cinegammas, that EX1/3 and the FS700 have, means that the highlight rolloff isn't the best. You should definitely learn how to use the picture profiles and how to expose best.
That's the magic "formula" to get fine footage. There are already many custom made profiles out there or here in the community. Check it out!

If I need run'n gun, I use the (not soo bad) stabilized 18-200 kitlens and press the camera on my chest. Sounds weird but works without the need of rigs and sort of.

I think, beside the Canon C100, the FS100 is still one of the best 8bit cameras out there.
 
Weddings - id steer clear a mile.
White dresses, midday, sun - it is not the camera for you.
Click to expand...

Although it's a kickass camera, I keep coming back to these 2 sentences. *But*, if you can master the picture profiles as Erik mentioned, then maybe. And weddings are not the end-all be-all. Maybe you'll find other uses for the camera as you progress with it.

If you do decide to buy the FS100.....you must join the cult and get some vintage Canon FD lenses! Ron, if you want to see some Fs100 samples, check out my demo reel in the my vimeo link. A great deal of that footage was shot with the FS100, but not all.
 
The BU video was acceptable.. ish but Im in the game to make stuff that leaps out from the competition :)

---

A wedding, so the the car is coming towards the church midday sun, 18mm, then you want to crash in to maybe 100mm for a CU of the bride getting out of the car, then you need to leg it into the church, rip off your ND and be set for the aisle shot maybe back on 18mm. If you have a crew (2nd op inside) no problems but those jumps from bright sun to needing a wide to tele to no ND all in 20 seconds, well it scares me on anything but my EX1.. which I have vowed to use more and more.

Personally I find the kit lens fly by wire focus reacts so slowly that I avoid that lens where ever possible.

Dont think I have it in for the FS100 - it has done me well and cost little money and the audio is fantastic, 1 mic to two channels at different levels is a life saver..

S
 
Scott F said:
Although it's a kickass camera, I keep coming back to these 2 sentences. *But*, if you can master the picture profiles as Erik mentioned, then maybe. And weddings are not the end-all be-all. Maybe you'll find other uses for the camera as you progress with it.

If you do decide to buy the FS100.....you must join the cult and get some vintage Canon FD lenses! Ron, if you want to see some Fs100 samples, check out my demo reel in the my vimeo link. A great deal of that footage was shot with the FS100, but not all.
Click to expand...

I agree. Something about those FD lenses that I like....well besides how cheap they are!
 
FD lenses are not cheap... or rather at the launch date they were very expensive like half a months wage for a lens. IMO glass of the FD era (I use MF nikkor) is the best non cine glass you can buy. It is current glass that is cheap, plastic and horrid.
 
morgan_moore said:
The BU video was acceptable.. ish but Im in the game to make stuff that leaps out from the competition :)

---

A wedding, so the the car is coming towards the church midday sun, 18mm, then you want to crash in to maybe 100mm for a CU of the bride getting out of the car, then you need to leg it into the church, rip off your ND and be set for the aisle shot maybe back on 18mm. If you have a crew (2nd op inside) no problems but those jumps from bright sun to needing a wide to tele to no ND all in 20 seconds, well it scares me on anything but my EX1.. which I have vowed to use more and more.

S
Click to expand...

With the Xume system, it takes maybe 2 seconds to snap ND on and off a lens. Actually changing
lenses is much more of a pain than putting ND on and off.

On another note, my issue with the HolyMantra, was no iris control.
If it was a 'Metabones like' smart adapter, that would be sweet,
but you cannot control iris with it on your camera if I remember correctly.
 
morgan_moore said:
FD lenses are not cheap... or rather at the launch date they were very expensive like half a months wage for a lens. IMO glass of the FD era (I use MF nikkor) is the best non cine glass you can buy. It is current glass that is cheap, plastic and horrid.
Click to expand...

Yes, you are right...well made but 'inexpensive' to buy.....because of low demand. I bought
4 FD lenses and didn't pay more than $80 for any lens...
 
IM tempted to try the zume.

Afaik the holy mantra is a VND - which Im scared of

I found VND green and odd (I used costly tiffens) then swapped to solid first Format then B+W. All of the solids seemed similar, even $30 ones.

S
 
If ND Filters are a must, did you consider a Canon C100?

Also the new Sony RX10 has integrated ND filters and the best zoom lens out there. Plus its 1" sensor is much bigger than the other cameras you were considering (XHA1 or EX1). It's priced $1200 + you also have to get the XLR adapter.
 
morgan_moore said:
IM tempted to try the zume.

Afaik the holy mantra is a VND - which Im scared of

I found VND green and odd (I used costly tiffens) then swapped to solid first Format then B+W. All of the solids seemed similar, even $30 ones.

S
Click to expand...

The Xume is not built in NDs which are awesome, but it's SO much better than
screwing on and off NDs or setting up a matte box for fast shoots. Works great
with solid ND......I'd get a set that was 82mm to stave off vignetting, and try and
get a set that had 0.3 - 1.8 ND. Then just carry them in a little pouch and they
work with all your lenses (just step all your lenses up with cheap step rings).
When you first get the Xume, you spend 15 minutes setting up all your lenses and
filters and then you are good from then on. Any FS100 or DSLR shooter should
have this system. I have a review with pics and video on my blog..
 
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