THE SEXY, RELIABLE "NATIVE 25p" THREAD

all material with stock zoom and 25p full HD, @ 1/50th and ISO 400...
Click to expand...

What f-stops did you shoot at?
When I first started playing with the hack a year ago, I went through a lot of different settings. I eventually decided to go with the c settings and had a lot of luck. However, with native 25p checked, I managed to consistently lock the camera using 4/3 lenses ( ie. lenses with communication ) set to apertures over f8-f10. My balcony looks over pine forest, so I had plenty of material to shoot. Pointing the camera at the forest and setting a high aperture, would be guaranteed to lock the camera every time. I've been shooting with native 25p disabled for over 6 months and am yet to suffer a single lock up.
I've got a couple of days free later this week, so I might give this another whirl with these settings and report back. It's not quite as important for PAL shooters to use native settings, but having the option to switch 25-24p is pretty useful.
 
Updated Fast Action Native 25p Patch - Download Beta version here:

View attachment LPowell - Fast Action Native 24p Patch Beta.zip

For the last two weeks I've been testing a new stabilization technique that promises to significantly improve Native 25p (and Native 24p) reliability. However, I could not to find a way to improve FHD 25p stability without breaking SH 50p mode at the same time. I was almost ready to give up on the technique when I thought of combining it with my Fast Action 3-Frame GOP Patch, which sets SH mode to 25p. I found I could then improve the stability of both FHD and SH modes at 25p using my new technique.

Before updating my 50Mbps Fast Action 3-Frame GOP thread with this Native 25p patch, I'd like to ask PAL users here to put it through some additional testing. Among other adjustments, this patch sets FHD mode GOP-size to 15 and SH mode GOP-size to 3. I'd be most interested to hear how the results of these settings compare to the Blackout-Powell Native 24p Patch, which records SH mode video at 50p. Any time you can put into this project will be greatly appreciated.
 
AdrianF said:
What f-stops did you shoot at?
Click to expand...


It was 5-5.6 inside, and f/8 for the first shot which started outside. Running around looking for locations for a project in the fall, mostly per bicycle I am adverse to carrying a tripod around... but now I am really curious what will crash this thing.

@ LPOWELL : is the only addtional in your new revision change the SH-GOP size? With the SH-frame size and the vertical that has to be scaled?
I'll surely give it a go next week... Thanks for the further tweaking!
 
ninetto said:
LPOWELL : is the only addtional in your new revision change the SH-GOP size? With the SH-frame size and the vertical that has to be scaled?
Click to expand...
Not only the 25p GOP-size - both 1080p FHD mode and 720p SH mode stabilization settings have been revised. Peak AVCHD bitrates remain set to 55Mbps, as in the Blackout-Powell Native 24p Patch. Average bitrates look to be around 45Mbps, since 25p records 15% fewer frames than 30p. Also, I've set MJPEG mode back to the standard 1280x720 frame size, though I have an anamorphic version ready as well.
 
Hello lpowell,

I've tried a few (around 20) settings with the new patch.
At first, of course, without modification, then various GOP and data rate.
GOP 10, 13, 15, 20
Data rate reduced to 24Mbit.
Always scenes with many details, taken with the kit lens 14-45.
From the hand 50% o.k. 50% crashed.
On a tripod 20% o.k. 80% crashed.
Duration max. 30 sec otherwise crash.
I have used:
Transcend 16 MB 20 MB Class 10.
Panasonic Gold 8 MB ​​Class 10
Verbatim 4MB Class 6
It does not matter whether PAL or NTSC, always the same, very unstable with the cards and my camera.
I've watched the clips in the stream parser.
It shows very large I-frames, or a number that is relatively normal and then one that is huge again. Is this the problem?
I am currently using a setting "LPowell - GH1 Peak Performance Patch v4-1, modified by me to show more stability, with GOP13.
The setting is stable even with a tripod, with my camera of course.

Greetings
Marek
 
kolargol said:
I've tried a few (around 20) settings with the new patch.
At first, of course, without modification, then various GOP and data rate.
GOP 10, 13, 15, 20
Data rate reduced to 24Mbit.

I am currently using a setting "LPowell - GH1 Peak Performance Patch v4-1, modified by me to show more stability, with GOP13.
Click to expand...
If I understand correctly, the modifications you've tried have been made to my 75Mbps GH1 Peak Performance Patch? The 75Mbps peak bitrate of that patch does make its 50i interlaced FHD mode quite sensitive to changes in GOP-size and bitrate. Currently, I'm testing a beta version of a patch that I've optimized specifically for PAL Native 25p FHD mode. If you'd like to try that as well, you can download it here:

LPowell - Fast Action Native 24p Patch Beta.zip
 
sorry for my bad english.
My samples I've done with the Fast Action Native 25p Patch Beta in PAL and NTSC.


attached a file that has been successful.

File: E: \ PRIVATE \ AVCHD \ BDMV \ STREAM \ 00014.MTS
Size = 90,267,648 bytes (470 144 Packets)
Processed Data = 87,115,392 bytes (453 725 Packets)
Stream: Max Speed ​​= 55,148,940 bps
Mode = 1080/24pH (Native Hack)
PCR Timing Interval = 0.095 seconds
Clip Time = 0:00:18,85
Average total bit rate = 36,968,416
Average video bit rate = 35,914,463
Average Audio Bitrate = 234 553
Other Average Bitrate = 819 399
Max GOP Size = 2,645,184 bytes (21,161,472 bits)
Video Frame Size (Min / Ave / Max) = 106,944 / 191,152 / 701,568
 
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lpowell-quicky tried out the optimized patch for native 25p, and it's fantastic. Took some shots of dense foliage and trees-lots of detail (around f22) due to the bright sunshine in London today. No empty 192s, very consistent bit rates in stream parser. It felt really stable to use-i've never felt that with native ticked before. You generally get this slight hang when you press record, but with this patch instant recording. Had a recording of around 40Mbps

Even tried it on a codec chart and no problems as well. Very excited about this patch-gonna really give it a test tomorrow.

As always a million thanks for your hard work and endeavour
 
Kingswell said:
lpowell-quicky tried out the optimized patch for native 25p, and it's fantastic. Took some shots of dense foliage and trees-lots of detail (around f22) due to the bright sunshine in London today. No empty 192s, very consistent bit rates in stream parser. It felt really stable to use-i've never felt that with native ticked before. You generally get this slight hang when you press record, but with this patch instant recording. Had a recording of around 40Mbps

Even tried it on a codec chart and no problems as well. Very excited about this patch-gonna really give it a test tomorrow.

As always a million thanks for your hard work and endeavour
Click to expand...

Can you test with an aperture between F3.5 and F8 (trees, grass, with tripod)?
The aperture F22 is not as sharp because of diffraction.
Which card do you use?
Thanks
 
Leaves, dense foliage-branches nettles weeds etc. Wonderful weather today in London and i didn't have my ND filters hence having to go to f22-i just put the camera on the wall which stablised the shot.

SD card is a SanDisk Extreme 30MB/s Class 10 32GB.

Got a day off tomorrow so i'll get start testing at the apertures you requested.

Andy
 
I'v tested the beta path on last monday, in a park with lot of grass and trees. From 50 shots I had two failed, in scenes like this
zsmqtx.jpg


File: E:\PRIVATE\AVCHD\BDMV\STREAM\00029.MTS
Size = 48.500.736 Bytes (252.608 Packets)
Stream: Max Speed = 55.148.940 bps
Mode = 1080/25pH (Native Hack)
PCR Timing Interval = 0,095 seconds
Clip Time = 0:00:10,20
Average Total Bitrate = 38.039.792
Average Video Bitrate = 36.959.620
Average Audio Bitrate = 235.184
Average Other Bitrate = 844.988
Max GOP Size = 2.859.840 Bytes (22.878.720 bits)
Video Frame Size (Min/Ave/Max)= 68.544 / 188.131 / 894.528

used with transcend 8 GB 10 class card (with full format on PC, not quick)

with the previous version the ratio of the failed shots was ~ 50%.
 
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Ooops

Ooops

A rather disappointing discovery today as I sat down to some real editing, using files generated from the original 25p plus 15 GOP, NOT the latest hack from LPowell from yesterday.

ANYWAY I can edit the files NATIVELY in CS5 with no problems -I did this with the footage posted previously here - BUT as soon as I open a project pre-set using my Black Magic HD Extreme card which provides really fine SDI/HDMI output... it is NO-GO.:crybaby:

This problem is related to the specific BlackMagic hardware, so I do not want to hijack this thread, but I thought I would report this, as it is important for professional editors. I tried using all the pre-sets available in CS5-Blackmagic: all 25p versions of XDCam, AVCIntra, 2K, etc. Nothing worked, the only way I could play the file was to start a "non-Blackmagic" project, then all was swell.

What could it be in this 25p stream that upsets Blackmagic so? The unexpected GOP length? Some SDI/HDMI output compliancy problem? Stream Parser says the files are all OK.
 
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"Updated Fast Action Native 25p Patch - Download Beta version here:

LPowell - Fast Action Native 24p Patch Beta.zip......"

Before updating my 50Mbps Fast Action 3-Frame GOP thread with this Native 25p patch, I'd like to ask PAL users here to put it through some additional testing. Among other adjustments, this patch sets FHD mode GOP-size to 15 and SH mode GOP-size to 3. I'd be most interested to hear how the results of these settings compare to the Blackout-Powell Native 24p Patch, which records SH mode video at 50p. Any time you can put into this project will be greatly appreciated.......

Here are mine FHD, HD, PAL tests, from yesterday:

http://vimeo.com/22844322
File: C:\Users\Beni Note\Videos\2011-04-25 LPowell - Fast Action Native 24p Patch Beta\LPowell - Fast Action Native 24p Patch Beta 001.MTS
Size = 85.481.472 Bytes (445.216 Packets)
Stream: Max Speed = 55.148.940 bps
Mode = 1080/25pH (Native Hack)
PCR Timing Interval = 0,095 seconds
Clip Time = 0:00:40,80
Average Total Bitrate = 16.761.072
Average Video Bitrate = 16.127.119
Average Audio Bitrate = 235.184
Average Other Bitrate = 398.769
Max GOP Size = 1.661.184 Bytes (13.289.472 bits)
Video Frame Size (Min/Ave/Max)= 47.808 / 82.298 / 342.336

http://vimeo.com/22887570
File: C:\Users\Beni Note\Videos\2011-04-25 LPowell - Fast Action Native 24p Patch Beta\LPowell - Fast Action Native 24p Patch Beta 002.MTS
Size = 60.309.504 Bytes (314.112 Packets)
Stream: Max Speed = 55.148.940 bps
Mode = 720/25p
PCR Timing Interval = 0,095 seconds
Clip Time = 0:00:38,52
Average Total Bitrate = 12.525.338
Average Video Bitrate = 11.979.172
Average Audio Bitrate = 235.048
Average Other Bitrate = 311.116
Max GOP Size = 297.792 Bytes (2.382.336 bits)
Video Frame Size (Min/Ave/Max)= 14.400 / 61.149 / 189.888
 
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Botvinic said:
lpowell
I want 1080 25p Native and 720 50p. Can you give me an ini?
Click to expand...

what a fantastic 1st post! you forgot to say please and thanks :smile:

why don't you use the 24p Blackout/Lpowell patch (b.ini) and modify the 1080 GOP from 12 to 15, thats all i did and having great results!
 
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