F55: The red guys are really losing the market.

The fact that you have to pay a transfer fee to sell your RED turns me off. Then, if I had invested $60,000 into an Epic system only have RED drop it's price due to their fear of Sony would have seriously pissed me off. As for the resale value of an F3? It's still pretty good considering it's what, 2 years old now? If you have a Sony F3, you should have easily made your money back shooting jobs. If you didn't make your money back, you really shouldn't consider buying the F5 or F55. The F3 is still an incredible camera as well as the Epic. THe value of any of these cameras is in you, not the camera. Sony isn't a car dealership, where you bring in your old Toyota for trade in on the new Cadillac. You buy a camera, make money with it, then SOny makes a better camera, you sell the old and write it off as a loss on your tax return and write the new one off as an investment.

So far, with what I've seen out of the F55, RED should be concerned. Not that the Epic is a poor camera next to the F55. But so far the F55 is looking like a real nice camera....But it's still a camera. Just another hammer amongst us carpenters. Still gotta know how to drive a nail.
 
Jim already warned that Dragon will exceed $6k because of new ASIC required, etc.. which is why I speculated they will up the bit-depth of the ASIC in-camera, and also likely Redcode RAW. This may require newer, faster and more power efficient hardware as well. Time will tell, but RED's only weakness really has been trying to be transparent to consumers which is why they earned so much respect in the marketplace. But as RatLabs says, things don't always work out as planned and sometimes RED's commitment to transparency works against them.

I still don't see RED having lost any market share. Sony is over priced in my opinion, but one must chose wisely based on their immediate needs and not necessarily counting on future ones. I have done a bit of both.

We should all thank RED for doing what they did back in 2006 to get things going.
 
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The transfer fee is a great safegaurd for anyone purchasing a second hand RED camera. It is a piece of mind that the camera is legitimate. For that the fee is $500. For $250, you can have RED also do an inspection and offer a 90 day warranty. Usually the procedure is to have the seller send the camera to RED, and after inspection, RED will ship to buyer. Most buyers will send the funds to the seller after a passing inspection.

dustylense said:
The fact that you have to pay a transfer fee to sell your RED turns me off. Then, if I had invested $60,000 into an Epic system only have RED drop it's price due to their fear of Sony would have seriously pissed me off. As for the resale value of an F3? It's still pretty good considering it's what, 2 years old now? If you have a Sony F3, you should have easily made your money back shooting jobs. If you didn't make your money back, you really shouldn't consider buying the F5 or F55. The F3 is still an incredible camera as well as the Epic. THe value of any of these cameras is in you, not the camera. Sony isn't a car dealership, where you bring in your old Toyota for trade in on the new Cadillac. You buy a camera, make money with it, then SOny makes a better camera, you sell the old and write it off as a loss on your tax return and write the new one off as an investment.

So far, with what I've seen out of the F55, RED should be concerned. Not that the Epic is a poor camera next to the F55. But so far the F55 is looking like a real nice camera....But it's still a camera. Just another hammer amongst us carpenters. Still gotta know how to drive a nail.
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bgundu said:
The transfer fee is a great safegaurd for anyone purchasing a second hand RED camera. It is a piece of mind that the camera is legitimate. For that the fee is $500. For $250, you can have RED also do an inspection and offer a 90 day warranty. Usually the procedure is to have the seller send the camera to RED, and after inspection, RED will ship to buyer. Most buyers will send the funds to the seller after a passing inspection.
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I agree... I joked with a friend... if Red charged a grand and held the funds in an escrow account until the camera passes inspections its a win-win for the seller and buyer... protecting both...
 
I think another way of looking at it is to consider annual cost, not depreciation solely, the cost to keep 'on the cutting edge'

ie the cost pa is either the cost of selling a depreciated and buying the new model and accs or the cost of upgrading

I guess Red in in front here (esp for people who bought a new F35!)

Overall the great thing about a cam like the F55 is that it may not really go out of date at all for many years- it may just be 'good enough' and that is fantastic

S
 
morgan_moore said:
I think another way of looking at it is to consider annual cost, not depreciation solely, the cost to keep 'on the cutting edge'
ie the cost pa is either the cost of selling a depreciated and buying the new model and accs or the cost of upgrading
I guess Red in in front here (esp for people who bought a new F35!)
Overall the great thing about a cam like the F55 is that it may not really go out of date at all for many years- it may just be 'good enough' and that is fantastic

S
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I wish I wish....But sadly I believe that manufacturers of anything electronic these days need whatever they make to go "out of date" within a couple of years at the most so they can then offer the next newest and greatest, otherwise they simply will not stay in business.
 
I disagree whole-heartedly about Red's transfer fee being legit. REALLY? $500 to type in a few things and push a button. I certainly is not for the protection of the purchaser. I do grant that they are certainly entitled to an inspection and fee if/when they bring it in-house. In another related annoying vein, RedArmor (extended warranty) is non-transferrable? REALLY? It seems to me that a warranty is a risk assumption on the part of Red. Does the risk change when another buyer has it? The timeline and serial numbers remain unchanged. Both issues effected me during the purchase of Red Epic. And, due to them, I will not purchase again.
 
My experience with Red Support with my 3rd hand Epic has been nothing but stellar.

Saving up now for the Dragon upgrade.

What other manufacturer can provide you a whole new sensor with less noise and more latitude than the previous model without buying a whole new camera?
 
mcgeedigital said:
My experience with Red Support with my 3rd hand Epic has been nothing but stellar.

Saving up now for the Dragon upgrade.

What other manufacturer can provide you a whole new sensor with less noise and more latitude than the previous model without buying a whole new camera?
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Sensor upgrade?

Can Scarlet-X be upgraded to the new Dragon sensor when it is released?
Yes. However the upgrade will be more expensive than upgrading an EPIC due to the necessity to change several primary boards. There will still be data rate limitations to Scarlet after the upgrade as compared with EPIC.
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Not sure I see any major benefit between swapping internal components on a chassis versus buying a new camera with new form factor and/or possible other features.
 
mcgeedigital said:
I took 100% of my Scarlet accessories and put them on my Epic when I upgraded.
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Those were external add ons. The Optek Prolock, 4 pin XLR adapter for power, TV Logic monitor, etc, etc will all transfer from the F3 to F5 or F55. But again those are all external.
 
Duke M. said:
Those were external add ons. The Optek Prolock, 4 pin XLR adapter for power, TV Logic monitor, etc, etc will all transfer from the F3 to F5 or F55. But again those are all external.
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I was alluding to the Red and Wooden camera Red-specific accessories.
 
bgundu said:
The transfer fee is a great safegaurd for anyone purchasing a second hand RED camera. It is a piece of mind that the camera is legitimate. For that the fee is $500. For $250, you can have RED also do an inspection and offer a 90 day warranty. Usually the procedure is to have the seller send the camera to RED, and after inspection, RED will ship to buyer. Most buyers will send the funds to the seller after a passing inspection.
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Is the camera some kind of Pepsi cola that the customer can't even understand what he is drinking? When you buy a second hand camera, put your lens, switch it on and do a test shoot to know if it works right. Why RED has to create a bureaucracy and control who owns their cameras? Is it not like going back to mediaval ages when people had to seek consent of the king for you know what. :)

RED's control reminds me of the real RED - the Chinese. The Chinese send the Pandas to other zoos on lease. They never sell pandas. Even babies born to the panadas in any country remain the property of China. They decided if a zoo can lease a panda to any other zoo. Is it true that if a person falls foul of RED then he/she has to return back the EPIC camera?
 
since I'm not a electronic wizard on the internal workings of a digital camera... I don't see spending 750 bucks to change ownership and have the camera inspected and the sensor clean is that big of deal... when you're buying a used Epic at 30k or more... to me that sounds like a pretty good insurance policy... Red might come back and say... yeah it works... but in two months you're going to have to spend 2k to replace this part... again sounds like a good deal to me....
 
GaryinCalifornia said:
since I'm not a electronic wizard on the internal workings of a digital camera... I don't see spending 750 bucks to change ownership and have the camera inspected and the sensor clean is that big of deal... when you're buying a used Epic at 30k or more... to me that sounds like a pretty good insurance policy... Red might come back and say... yeah it works... but in two months you're going to have to spend 2k to replace this part... again sounds like a good deal to me....
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I understand the cleaning and inspection costs. I think that is a great service for potential owners and sellers but I find it silly to charge a fee to change ownership and have a non transferable warranty.
 
GaryinCalifornia said:
sounds like a good deal to me....
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Ok how about what happened to me on my RED purchase in October. In the three weeks RED took to process my order before shipping it I decided to sell it before even receiving it because the new F's were announced and I didn't want the RED anymore.

After numerous calls to RED they told me AFTER I received the camera I would have to ship it rightback to do the transfer. I know RED has rules it upholds - but that was ridiculous.
 
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Let's face it... all the companies, just like all these cameras, have positives and negatives based on our individual needs. If one company does things in a way you don't particularly like, chances are someone else will be there to happily take your money.
 
Yes true. Good, bad or indifferent, the bottom line i feel is that RED is definitely not losing any market share. Just go look at the tens of thousands of members on REDUser versus the double or triple digit on BMC or Sony forums for example.

RED is here to stay. Love 'em or not.
 
starcentral said:
Ok how about what happened to me on my RED purchase in October. In the three weeks RED took to process my order before shipping it I decided to sell it before even receiving it because the new F's were announced and I didn't want the RED anymore.

After numerous calls to RED they told me AFTER I received the camera I would have to ship it rightback to do the transfer. I know RED has rules it upholds - but that was ridiculous.
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lol I had to return some things at Lowes today...I lost one receipt... the lady gives me the third degree over a $1.50 item... told her I'll keep it.. then she gets mad because she has to re-ring the return... life is nutty sometimes...
 
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