DarkMatter
Veteran
Interesting i never heard that. do you have a link?
The Protector
- Thread starter DarkMatter
- Start date
spidey
Shogun Assassin
from what i hear him and jackie arnt retire from action movies just huge martial art epics. like once upon a time in china and drunken master type film. films where it totally focues on martial arts. jet li wants to move on to more serious films and so does jackie. plus both hae risked their lives for so long and broken everything (i mean jackie can't get insurance ever)
in either case i love them and thier workso i hope for the best for them.
in either case i love them and thier workso i hope for the best for them.
GageFX
Carbonite Member
Just got back from this today. One of the worst films ever. Writing, acting, directing - horrible. I imagine some of the actors might actually be good actors, but the writing was so horrendous. It's also hard to tell as it's dubbed, and dubbed voice over translation acting always seems to be horible.
The fights were great, though. Not all, but most. Some laughable, alot of repetition in the moves, some some really great choreography and fighting for contact/close contact film fighting.
Oh dear lord the movie is horrid, though. See it. You'lllove it.
-GageFX
The fights were great, though. Not all, but most. Some laughable, alot of repetition in the moves, some some really great choreography and fighting for contact/close contact film fighting.
Oh dear lord the movie is horrid, though. See it. You'lllove it.
-GageFX
FilmMakerr
Veteran
Fearless was amazing, not just okay.
DarkMatter
Veteran
No it was just ok, I think you may be stuck in after movie haze, give it a few hours it will wear off.:smile:FilmMakerr said:
DarkMatter
Veteran
Yeah. it's a love hate thing.GageFX said:
FilmMakerr
Veteran
MOVIE STUNTS said:
lol..well, I've never been a kung fu movie guy, Fearless was probably my third TRUE Kung Fu movie, (Jackie Chan stuff doesn't count).
So I guess it was love at first sight :grin:
But, in the past week Ive watched: Iron Monkey, Fearless, Hero, and got some more to go. Ong Baks on my list
DarkMatter
Veteran
Ong-Bak will blow you away. Story wise i like Fearless, action wise it was kinda weak. Of course story wise Ong-Bak sucked but the action hit so hard I didn't care.
GageFX
Carbonite Member
I bought Ong Bak a few weeks ago, but haven't watched it yet. I was telling a friend about The protector last night and he said "Tony Jaa just sucks. It's the same two moves over and over again. HE almost cant do anything but flying knees and flying elbows to the head." I said "You saw The Protector?" He said "No. That's Ong Bak."
Well, it's the Protector too. It kinda annoyed me that he just used the same moves over and over for the whole movie, but I just went with it. Now I find out its the same two moves for two straight films. Boring.
I have no desire to see Ong Bak now. I feel I've already seen it.
-GageFX
Well, it's the Protector too. It kinda annoyed me that he just used the same moves over and over for the whole movie, but I just went with it. Now I find out its the same two moves for two straight films. Boring.
I have no desire to see Ong Bak now. I feel I've already seen it.
-GageFX
Justin Kuhn
Veteran
I keep thinking about that last part of the trailer where he jumps off the building and hits the guy hanging off of the helicopter with his knees.
DarkMatter
Veteran
Same two moves wtf, did you even watch either one? BTW the stunts were top notch also, you won't find anything that cool in hollywood. The guy is obviously a muay thai kickboxer, thus you will see elbows and knees thrown which is obviously not something you see in most action flicks. I guess that may be the reason it sticks out so much in your heads. Watching it there is obviously more to the fights than gratuitous elbow and knee combinations.
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GageFX
Carbonite Member
As stated, I saw this one, I did not see Ong Bak. Agreed about the stunts. Agreed about the techniques used in Muay Thai, I'm more than very familiar, I'm just stating how it comes across in a film. Very redundant. Actually, a bit ridiculous. Effective, sure, but lets see something else. There was alot of great stuff in his first fight scene when he busted up that ?party?, but there was much repitition. If it's a real fight, or Mortal Combat, do what you have to do to win, even if it's throwing Scorpian's chain-spike thing over and over, but if it's to entertain audiences that would like to see something other than flying knees and elbows to the head for a whole film, let's let try a few other things.
Just as an example. In my current project, we have taught my lead in (at least, I know I'm forgetting one) 5 different styles in order to keep things exciting and non-redundant. She's a 5'1, 95 lb female so she would be elbowing and kneeing almost entirely in real life, but that's boring. We've tried our best to keep it as "real" as possible, but we have also done our best to put Sub-Zero's Freeze Ball away and try some other moves. (I dont know your age, but I hope you follow.)
As for the comparison of the two films, I have Ong Bak next to my bed, I'll pop it in tonight. I'm just saying I heard it was 99% flying knees and elbows, and I know from eye witness that Protector is 99% knees and elbows. Since I was there only for the fight scenes/stunts, as the story is complete poo-poo (and I'm sure Ong-Bak's is also, but we'll see tonight) the fight scenes came across as redundant and run of the mill. Also, as this film makes it apparent he is to take over Chan's spot in action, I'm even less impressed.
He's a talented guy and it was a fun movie, just boring.
-GageFX
Just as an example. In my current project, we have taught my lead in (at least, I know I'm forgetting one) 5 different styles in order to keep things exciting and non-redundant. She's a 5'1, 95 lb female so she would be elbowing and kneeing almost entirely in real life, but that's boring. We've tried our best to keep it as "real" as possible, but we have also done our best to put Sub-Zero's Freeze Ball away and try some other moves. (I dont know your age, but I hope you follow.)
As for the comparison of the two films, I have Ong Bak next to my bed, I'll pop it in tonight. I'm just saying I heard it was 99% flying knees and elbows, and I know from eye witness that Protector is 99% knees and elbows. Since I was there only for the fight scenes/stunts, as the story is complete poo-poo (and I'm sure Ong-Bak's is also, but we'll see tonight) the fight scenes came across as redundant and run of the mill. Also, as this film makes it apparent he is to take over Chan's spot in action, I'm even less impressed.
He's a talented guy and it was a fun movie, just boring.
-GageFX
DarkMatter
Veteran
These are just a few of my observations after seeing nearly every noteworthy martial arts/ action movie out there. What will you find in any of them Weapons, Punching, Kicking, Grapling,... If this is the standard for action martial arts movies what do we say of movies that posess all of the above in addition, there are few that throw anything else into the mix, such as knees, elbows, acrobatics, phenominal stunt work, most in realtime without cuts. I don't know what kind of an authority, your friend is or claims to be on action/martial arts films... But if they said that all they saw was 99%, elbows and knees, and you mirror thier view, all I can think is that you should pay more attention.
GageFX
Carbonite Member
Ok. You are right.
I just saw Ong Bak , and The Protector is not the most ridiculous movie I've ever seen, Ong Bak is. We laughed all the way through. You can use that movie as a lesson in what to avoid in making an action/fight film. Ridiculous.
"Authority"? He's a guy that watched the film. He is an authority on his opinion of the film and what he saw. He is a fan of the genre and has seen them all. ("Them all" to be taken in the same vein as "99%". It might not be 100% accurate, but is close enough to get the point.)
As for paying more attention, Ong Bak did me the favor of replaying almost every move 3 times from different angles (sign of a great fight film) so they gave me a couple extra chances per move to really digest what I was seeing. And what I was seeing was ridiculous.
99% flying knees and elbows, times 3 angles per move....
= 297% Flying Knees and Elbows in Ong Bak.
Ong Bak is the winner!!
I remember when Lionheart and Bloodsport came out. That was the coolest. I was in highschool then and obviously retarded, I know better now when I'm looking at exactly the same thing. (Yeah, yeah, Tony's better than Van Damme, but they are still bad movies with bad stories and bad acting and ridiculous fighting. Tony's just a better real fighter and the stunts are better. But the movies are still crap.) (And I cant figure out why "crap" is underlined. It wont ununderline. Weird.)
If you want some mindless martial arts fun, see the movies. Ong Bak was a great laugh, Protector was much more painful, but their fun stuff. I think you may just be caught up in the hype.
As for "Same two moves wtf, did you even watch either one?": Now that I have seen both, I can confidently say "Yes, they are the same movie. It's just that Ong Bak was funnier. They used the sped up camera speeds in post to greater comedic effect. But story - "Give me back my elephant/statue head so I can go back home or I'll kill anyone that stands in my way...." Yeah, same movie. And it was comforting too as all the same actors were in each. I didnt have to have all that pesky getting used to different actors thing.
As for the "realtime without cuts", no big deal. Yes, I agree it's not done much. Not done enough. Which is why going into training for my film, the #1 rule was all fight scenes would be learned and choreographed as complete scenes, not individual moves for trick angles, slow-mo hits and multiple replay of the finishing move - or any move in between. The fights in my project are as real as possible while still holding the fiction of the situation and I have a 16 yr old, 5'1, 90 lb girl who had never had a second of fight training in her life before the film doin 4 minute, almost full contact fights. She's brilliant and leaves fight training with bruised forarms from blocking full punches and elbows from trained fighters, bruised shins from shin on shin kicks and blocks, bloody elbows from throwing elbows, and this doesnt even include her full speed full contact field hockey stick vs. shanai sword fight. Yes, Tony Jaa's fight scenes are some of the best we've seen in a while. Yes, the non-worework, real stuunts is what attracted me to The Protector. I wasnt a Tony Jaa fanatic, or Ong Bak fan, I was a guy who saw a trailer with obviously real stunt and fight work and I went to see the flic. What I saw was ridiculous. And you dont have to be an "authority" on anything to see that. It was there on the 50 foot screen (with a 1/3 full house at a mid afternoon matinee in the biggest auditorium in a very popluar L.A. theater, opening weekend.... someone severely misread the audience numbers for the film) for all to see.
And when I want to see spectacular acrobatics, I'll go see the latest Cirque de Soliel in Vegas. I prefer fighting in my fight movies. (But some of the acrobatic moves were pretty cool, just a bit ridiculous.)
Anyway, glad you enjoyed it. You are obviously a Tony Jaa fan, and that's cool. I didnt enjoy it. I'm pretty sure I still have that right. The Taliban hasn't taken that away from me, have they?
It's all good fun, Mr. Movie Stunts. Lighten up and let others have their opinions. I'm sure you are the action/martial arts authority you claim to be (do they have courses at the Learning Annex?), but my friends and I enjoy movies, just not always, and just not always for the same reasons you do.
-GageFX
I just saw Ong Bak , and The Protector is not the most ridiculous movie I've ever seen, Ong Bak is. We laughed all the way through. You can use that movie as a lesson in what to avoid in making an action/fight film. Ridiculous.
Crazy Guy said:
"Authority"? He's a guy that watched the film. He is an authority on his opinion of the film and what he saw. He is a fan of the genre and has seen them all. ("Them all" to be taken in the same vein as "99%". It might not be 100% accurate, but is close enough to get the point.)
As for paying more attention, Ong Bak did me the favor of replaying almost every move 3 times from different angles (sign of a great fight film) so they gave me a couple extra chances per move to really digest what I was seeing. And what I was seeing was ridiculous.
99% flying knees and elbows, times 3 angles per move....
= 297% Flying Knees and Elbows in Ong Bak.
Ong Bak is the winner!!
I remember when Lionheart and Bloodsport came out. That was the coolest. I was in highschool then and obviously retarded, I know better now when I'm looking at exactly the same thing. (Yeah, yeah, Tony's better than Van Damme, but they are still bad movies with bad stories and bad acting and ridiculous fighting. Tony's just a better real fighter and the stunts are better. But the movies are still crap.) (And I cant figure out why "crap" is underlined. It wont ununderline. Weird.)
If you want some mindless martial arts fun, see the movies. Ong Bak was a great laugh, Protector was much more painful, but their fun stuff. I think you may just be caught up in the hype.
As for "Same two moves wtf, did you even watch either one?": Now that I have seen both, I can confidently say "Yes, they are the same movie. It's just that Ong Bak was funnier. They used the sped up camera speeds in post to greater comedic effect. But story - "Give me back my elephant/statue head so I can go back home or I'll kill anyone that stands in my way...." Yeah, same movie. And it was comforting too as all the same actors were in each. I didnt have to have all that pesky getting used to different actors thing.
As for the "realtime without cuts", no big deal. Yes, I agree it's not done much. Not done enough. Which is why going into training for my film, the #1 rule was all fight scenes would be learned and choreographed as complete scenes, not individual moves for trick angles, slow-mo hits and multiple replay of the finishing move - or any move in between. The fights in my project are as real as possible while still holding the fiction of the situation and I have a 16 yr old, 5'1, 90 lb girl who had never had a second of fight training in her life before the film doin 4 minute, almost full contact fights. She's brilliant and leaves fight training with bruised forarms from blocking full punches and elbows from trained fighters, bruised shins from shin on shin kicks and blocks, bloody elbows from throwing elbows, and this doesnt even include her full speed full contact field hockey stick vs. shanai sword fight. Yes, Tony Jaa's fight scenes are some of the best we've seen in a while. Yes, the non-worework, real stuunts is what attracted me to The Protector. I wasnt a Tony Jaa fanatic, or Ong Bak fan, I was a guy who saw a trailer with obviously real stunt and fight work and I went to see the flic. What I saw was ridiculous. And you dont have to be an "authority" on anything to see that. It was there on the 50 foot screen (with a 1/3 full house at a mid afternoon matinee in the biggest auditorium in a very popluar L.A. theater, opening weekend.... someone severely misread the audience numbers for the film) for all to see.
And when I want to see spectacular acrobatics, I'll go see the latest Cirque de Soliel in Vegas. I prefer fighting in my fight movies. (But some of the acrobatic moves were pretty cool, just a bit ridiculous.)
Anyway, glad you enjoyed it. You are obviously a Tony Jaa fan, and that's cool. I didnt enjoy it. I'm pretty sure I still have that right. The Taliban hasn't taken that away from me, have they?
It's all good fun, Mr. Movie Stunts. Lighten up and let others have their opinions. I'm sure you are the action/martial arts authority you claim to be (do they have courses at the Learning Annex?), but my friends and I enjoy movies, just not always, and just not always for the same reasons you do.
-GageFX
DarkMatter
Veteran
Wow I can't wait to see your 90 pound, 5'1" 16 year old, tear it up. I'm sure you and your friends will think it's revolutionary. Good luck.
Nathyn
Low Budget Ninja
I have to see this film. I can't compete with Tony Jaa, but I'm sure I can snatch a few moves. And as for "Fearless" this is Jet Li's last film of this type. He will continue to do martial arts films but because of an old back injury his doctor says he can no longer do the wire stunts and all that stuff.Alex DePew said:
If this is how "not" to make an action film I guess it will just have to be a bad example because I will be studying it.GageFX said:
But everyone who knows the plot of this film knew this coming in. I haven't seen the film yet and even I knew what to expect. They went to see the fighting.Alex DePew said:
For hardcore fight fans it is.Alex DePew said:
I would love to see a badass chick pull this off but keep in mind film is a visual medium and cool looking shots help sell a fight. It's hard to get really pretentious of a martial art film without really knowing what sells them. Many of Don the Dragon Wilsons fights look real but bad choreo (moreso bad direction) hurts the fights in his films.Alex DePew said:
I know this feeling. A movie fight with Brian Kung is like being in a real fight. But keep in mind Tony Jaa never said he did any other style than Muy Thai Kickboxing. So what you'll get is actually more than you normally get. In most films you'll get three things, punches, kicks and throws (maybe). In this you get knees and elbows thrown into the mix plus wireless stuntwork. (We don't use wires either, even though people believe Kung does, he doesn't).Alex DePew said:
Ridiculous? Because he used the moves that his style dictates? He never said he was Bruce Lee nor that he adapted to anything. Have you ever seen Muy Thai ring boxing, this is what he did except in a stylized Hollywood fashion, so how can it be ridiculous. The stunt work was done for our enjoyment. We knew it was put there for spectacle not because real fights take great acrobatics. But if you want real fights you should be watching UFC or ESPN martial arts stuff.Alex DePew said:
I understand this is your opinion but you do know many martial arts fans love acrobatics mixed with martial arts right. Even I get thrown over and do a cartwheel kick or so. Many of my guys went over (off the ground) for the throws and Brian comes in doing mid-air kicks, off the wall flips and kip-ups.Alex DePew said:
-Nate
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GageFX
Carbonite Member
sounds cool, Nathyn. Can't wait to see it. I believe there is a place for all the different styles of film, I just didn't like there films. Probably all the hype which they don't live up to.
As for the editing style, all the quick cuts usual point to poor choreography and single notes as opposed to full fights. Protector is obviously not like that as evidenced by the 5 minute uncut fight, but beyond that I was barely impressed. And I'm not a hater, I went go wanting it to kick butt.
- GageFX
As for the editing style, all the quick cuts usual point to poor choreography and single notes as opposed to full fights. Protector is obviously not like that as evidenced by the 5 minute uncut fight, but beyond that I was barely impressed. And I'm not a hater, I went go wanting it to kick butt.
- GageFX
Nathyn
Low Budget Ninja
Transporter was all quick cuts but can you honestly say it was choreographed poorly? Quick cutting is simply the modern style. Trust me, I've been there. In my first film you see the difference from what I'm doing now and we did quick cuts in both. Cutting rarely makes up for really bad choreo.GageFX said:
You have to have something to start with before you cut and if you start with bad choreo you end with bad choreo. And honestly I like to see moves so after I'm set off by the scene, later I can pause and do slow-mo to get to see what actually happened. There's a scene in Blade 2 where Snipes so kicks over a guys head, but it's done so well you never see it. BTW, whose the girl in your flick? I love chick fighters. I got a few in mine.
-Nate
GageFX
Carbonite Member
Nathyn, sorry, it was late and I think I only skimmed your post last night. I'll reread and repost tonight.
As for my girl, almost nothing is being released of the project for now. In due time. She is the girl go all the stills and clips I've posted, though. And she's not a fighter, she's an actress who has been tought to fight - damn well. And I think that will also be the big difference - I actually have actors in my film.
Finally, it's a drama with action, not a fight or martial arts film. But our 8 months of top level fight, weapons, firearm, and tactics training gives you an idea of what we are putting into this.
- GageFX
As for my girl, almost nothing is being released of the project for now. In due time. She is the girl go all the stills and clips I've posted, though. And she's not a fighter, she's an actress who has been tought to fight - damn well. And I think that will also be the big difference - I actually have actors in my film.
Finally, it's a drama with action, not a fight or martial arts film. But our 8 months of top level fight, weapons, firearm, and tactics training gives you an idea of what we are putting into this.
- GageFX