The physical safe

G

Glazarus

Well-known member
Ok, we got a King Kong waiting for us in technology, but what about the physical form.

When working with movies, you sometime have to spend time in cold, wet, dry or really hot climates. The technology is nice, but will it live up to the physical demands that movies demand?

Every camera is delicate, but with more complicated technology comes almost always a lesser physical strength. How will the camera behave when using it like a 35mm camera in rough enviroments?
 
I'd guess it'll be similar to Canon's DSLRs. Magnesium body, rubber body seals, removable rubber caps over ports. The body could be as sealed as the lens you put on it.

But I made that up.
 
If it isn't up to professional standards in terms of enviromental protection, then it's something they must do before release. It's no good to have a big load of technology when you can't shoot in a "normal" snowy enviroment at low temperatures. If they are serious about compete against 35mm cameras, then the physical strenght of the camera is also important.

That's why canons L-serie lenses cost almost 3-4 times more then their usual lenses. The L-serie can handle any weather and any climate.
Not that this is possible to do with red, but if comes down to just work fine in a studio, then that is not good at all.
 
I'm sure the Red Team's got this covered. There was mention of it in this post by Jim Jannard:

As a final note for now, we are currently working on thermal management for our camera. There will be two FPGA's onboard to manage all that is going on inside. It is like a nuclear reactor inside your toaster. Quite a challenge. Just the way we like it. If you get nervous (I'm not), go buy a set of gloves. :-)
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If they are testing its thermal properties, I'm sure they're subjecting the camera to other tests as well.
 
My takeaway from that note is not thermal environment testing, it's internal thermal management. They are pushing the FPGAs hard and they generate so much heat, that it's a challenge to cool them down enough to run at a safe temperature. The case of the camera may get very hot while running.

High heat means high power dissipation: "normal" sized batteries may not have a very long runtime.
 
I guess I don't see much point in testing internally if they're not going to consider issues of durability (external) as well? Then again, I was just giving Jim's team the benefit of the doubt (I'm not one to speculate about every (missing) feature, and have a wait and see approach).

But that would be bad wouldn't it? $17,500 and the camera reboots/locks-up/dies in the face of temperature fluctuations! Here in Hawaii, we've got humidity, ocean spray, and sand to contend with.

I'm not worried, but it's an interesting question I'm sure the Red team's accounted for.
 
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They must check how it will work in different enviroments, or else movies are only gonna be made in the way of "Sin City" and "300".
If it gets too hot, then what happens when you shoot something in a climate of 30 degrees celsius?

I mean, it MUST have the durability of a 35mm camera if it's gonna compete against it...
 
internal vs. external temp

internal vs. external temp

Oz said:
I guess I don't see much point in testing internally if they're not going to consider issues of durability (external) as well? Then again, I was just giving Jim's team the benefit of the doubt (I'm not one to speculate about every (missing) feature, and have a wait and see approach).
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because if you cannot control internal temperature, you won't get anything from the sensor. most shooters are not worried about extreme shooting conditions. the only ones worried about that stuff are rental houses and shooters who are prepping projects in the arctic, desert, etc.

i would anticipate release of some 3rd party accessories to protect/insulate the red from harsh environments.
 
Essentially, what I mean is that if Red's already testing internally, then I'm sure they're testing for durability/externally as well. In other words, I'm with Brook on this one: Red's got to have this covered, and I wasn't questioning the wisdom of testing internally. The more tests the better!

And you make a good point; there are third party accessories that can add to the camera's durability, although it should still be a requirement that it can hold up to different environments on its own.
 
temperature limits on electronic systems

temperature limits on electronic systems

Like any other piece of electronics, RED will have some "operating temperature range" beyond which it's not guaranteed to work. When you consider specs like 4k@60 fps; 2k windowed @120 fps RAW, this is not a small low-power design, it's out there on the leading edge. It has big bandwidth, large chips, and fast clock speeds, and all of that means power and heat dissipation. Even if it's intended to go everywhere and do everything a 35mm cine camera can do (...is it?) the laws of physics still apply.

I have no connection to the RED team, all I know is what's on dvxuser. Just based on my own experience with board-level analog & digital circuit development, there will be some initial hardware design and design spec limits, and likely thermal modelling has been done, but only once it is all assembled and working in the final form factor do you really know thermal performance. Design changes may be needed to meet the spec. Again, I don't know the planned spec. They call their prototype the "frankenstein" so my guess is there is no final assembled package yet. Until that happens, you may have design specs but no one knows the real-world performance.

Anyway I would not take it for granted that RED will just operate anywhere out of the box (eg. deserts or other hot environments) without special considerations for cooling. On the other hand, extreme cold may just require a few blankets and it might keep itself warm, at least when running.

Again, this is all just my armchair conjecture.
 
The ridges ontop of the camera should be increased in number and size in order to create a sort of heatsink. I think i mentioned this before, but if the top ridges are some sort of alloy and are many, it should dissipate heat quite well since it would effectively double or triple the surface area for heat to escape from.
 
With any electronic imaging camera you have a a range of temperature and humidity within the equipment will operate properly. If CCDs get too hot, you get noise, if the cam gets too cold it will shut down if condensation forms, it'll not operate. This has always been the case and some gear will tolerate more than others.

Film has always been the more reliable choice for going to Antartica, the peak of Mt Everest or the jungle.

Reminds me of the old HDC-100 Saticon tube HD Cameras from Sony whch had relatively loud fans in it's body to manage heat. I think they managed to solve the heat issue with heatsinks and then released the HDC-300 with no onboard fans.
 
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