The Next Panasonic Camera -- suggestions to the product manager

Sorry if it sounds like I'm raining on this parade, but didn't we already do this 'Panasonic Wishlist' thread?!?
And they responded with... ? (cue the crickets chirping)
I wanted an AF100 successor as much as the next guy, but they simply didn't deliver. So my question is; what exactly has changed since then?

No really, THIS time they're listening!

If Panasonic's marketing dept. hasn't figured out what consumers/professionals want, then it's time to start handing out Pink Slips.
That's their job; to figure out where the market is headed and what it will yield!!!

I'm not suggesting that giving them feedback is bad, but we did that not too long ago on this site.
Hell, I've got an idea; just wrap up the old thread "3 things for an AF successor" and email it to 'em!
Done! (Unless, I'm missing the point about this being purely a fantasy thread. Then I duly apologize.)

Sad thing is; even if Panasonic sincerely heeded our passionate cries starting today, it would be a year or more before that camera hit the store shelves.
(Regardless if you're using a lot of existing parts, product development takes time.)

Meanwhile, JVC is moving into that market segment with the LS300 this March.
Woe is Panny if that turns out to be a good camera...
 
This is different, in that this is the Panasonic Consumer division. Panasonic Broadcast has most definitely not followed up with an inexpensive large-sensor camera, true. But the AF100 was a Panasonic Broadcast camera, and if they chose to not follow up, then ... that's their choice.

Panasonic Consumer is a different company, different designers, different engineers. They made the GH1/2/3/4, and they made a professional camera (the HC-X1000) that is every bit as pro as the other Panasonic AG-series handheld cameras. And the consumer division is who's asking for our feedback.
 
WOW!!!
Useable ISO (almost no grain) up to 12,800?
And in the $3K to $4K price range??? :shocked:
Well, in 2 months we will know for sure.
 
Barry_Green said:
This is different, in that this is the Panasonic Consumer division. Panasonic Broadcast has most definitely not followed up with an inexpensive large-sensor camera, true. But the AF100 was a Panasonic Broadcast camera, and if they chose to not follow up, then ... that's their choice.

Panasonic Consumer is a different company, different designers, different engineers. They made the GH1/2/3/4, and they made a professional camera (the HC-X1000) that is every bit as pro as the other Panasonic AG-series handheld cameras. And the consumer division is who's asking for our feedback.
Click to expand...

I guess this is one reason I'm kinda 'blah' on this. Would the consumer division give
us things like onboard NDs? XLR audio? HDSDI instead of HDMI or mini HDMI?
Or would they instead do things more like the GH4 and less like the AF100?
Could it be possible that the consumer division makes a camera more 'pro' than
the broadcast division? I guess anything is possible. But I think most people on
here would like something with the 'pro features' of the AF100 but the newer and
better image/chip from the GH4......and I'm thinking the consumer division is more
likely to deliver something like another GH4 'hybrid' camera.
 
Ive not followed the thread and am am FS7 owner.

--

Still in the whole market place there is not a really really good camera for 'semi cinematic' solo doco shooting.

The Fs7 is close but really need the addition of a $20k lens like the canon 17-105 to actually work.. at which point it becomes too heavy to really operate in a mobile manner.

It seems to me that M4/3 has a huge unfilled hole which is a decent zoom lens - maybe 12-100 or suchlike with proper manual focus and iris.

The 'small' chip size of M4/3 would make such a lens cheaper and lighter than an S35 covering lens, especially if the tele range in HD could be boosted a little by a digital zoom (not buried in the menu)

So..
A decent zoom
a gh4 and a big YAG box that was behind the camera to make it shoulder shaped.
or AF200 being an AF100 with the GH4 internals.

Could knock the FS7 off its throne

Maybe such a zoom could even present a small crop factor!
Of course you could swap out to your MFT 1.2 primes when time allows - making a very flexible system.

S
 
Ken Hull said:
WOW!!!
Useable ISO (almost no grain) up to 12,800?
And in the $3K to $4K price range??? :shocked:
Well, in 2 months we will know for sure.
Click to expand...
Since this is (possibly) advertised as a hybrid photo-video camera, I wouldn't be surprised if the purported 16 stops is for the High Dynamic Range (aka multiple exposure) Raw in the photo mode only. That said, DxOMark rated the GH4 sensor at just under 13 stops in photo Raw. Maybe, the BSI technology can ring another stop or two out of the same or otherwise marginally improved sensor and maybe they can also offer dual exposure a la Alexa. You have to figure that, in the years that followed Alexa's introduction, the processing power has made enough of an advance to offer it on a much lower priced camera, as has been the case in terms of the resolution race.

A lot of maybes there. And maybe they'll be true.
 
Cameras that don't have mic inputs should have better wind protection or Panasonic should sell a wind screen option. It looks like one could be designed to affix to the flash mount on the lx100.
 
DLD said:
DxOMark rated the GH4 sensor at just under 13 stops in photo Raw. Maybe, the BSI technology can ring another stop or two out of the same or otherwise marginally improved sensor and maybe they can also offer dual exposure a la Alexa.
Click to expand...

Like you mentioned, that rumor site said 16 stops. People say people will always want more, but 16 stops is my limit. Considering that film got up to 14 or 15, and that merged photos with 18 or so stops look fake, really 16 is my limit. You give me a camera with 16, I'll use it till it breaks. I won't buy another one or feel short-changed when next year's has 17. And now that Panasonic is reading this, they will never give me a camera with 16 stops.

That being said, it's incredibly hard for a chip maker to climb the f-stop ladder, I think. F-stops, I sometimes forget, are logarithmic. 14 stops is not 1/13 more light than 13 stops. It is twice as much light. So to jump from 13 to 16 stops would be to handle 8 times the light (2 x 2 x 2). So, if the camera really does handle 16 stops, without HDR sleight of hand, I will be really curious why Panasonic has been holding out on us, 'cause that ain't no tweak.
 
alaskacameradude said:
I guess this is one reason I'm kinda 'blah' on this. Would the consumer division give
us things like onboard NDs? XLR audio?
Click to expand...
If you look at the HC-X1000 then you'd see that the answer is "yes". It's every bit as "pro" as any other Panasonic handheld. I'd dare say that nobody would be able to tell the difference.

But I think most people on here would like something with the 'pro features' of the AF100 but the newer and
better image/chip from the GH4......
Click to expand...
That's what I'd like to see. And that's exactly what they're capable of doing -- if they decide to do it.
 
combatentropy said:
Like you mentioned, that rumor site said 16 stops. People say people will always want more, but 16 stops is my limit. Considering that film got up to 14 or 15, and that merged photos with 18 or so stops look fake, really 16 is my limit. You give me a camera with 16, I'll use it till it breaks. I won't buy another one or feel short-changed when next year's has 17. And now that Panasonic is reading this, they will never give me a camera with 16 stops...
Click to expand...
Qualcomm publishes a blog where they stated that their new chip (815?) is powerful enough to combine 12 images without the inter-frame blur that is preventing the photo like HDR from becoming accessible for video.

Similarly Olympus stated that they think/hope/expect that the next generation EM 5 will be able to offer the platform where their pixel shifting multi-shot that gives them 40 MPX resolution off a 16 MPX sensor can be taken hand held. Currently, it needs a tripod because there's a slight delay between these shots and even slightly moving subjects look blurry.

I see these various proclamations that there's considerable effort expanded to provide both HDR and ultra high-res shots via the sheer processing power of the camera and the internal software rather than via a sensor improvement. That said, sensors are improving as well. The automotive oriented sensors can hit as many as 20 stops, albeit at a very low resolution. At some point, these technologies will merge or, at worst, will be stitched together.
 
Ok, as this is for the consumer department, let's keep it in the consumer realm, based on my observations after having used the x920 for some time;

1) Tiltable EVF, also for sub $3000 camera's please. Leads to less fatigue when using the EVF. I also don't like the collored fringes I see as my eye moves accross the frame of the EVF. I think better technologies are currently available.

2) If it were for me, I would eliminate sharpening in camera altogether. I think sharepening made sense in analogue circuitry which tends to have a dampening effect on signals. As I suspect that the consumer division will want to keep in camera sharpening to give the image more pop, then at least also use a non-zero value for the choring parameter to prevent the amplification of noise coming from these tiny sensors. Some people complain about the noisiness of the image of the x920 and i can see why. In IA mode it uses a lot of sharpening which can not be dialed down and it's most visible effect is the increase of noise. Only in scene mode or manual mode can it be dialed down. The choring parameter shoud ideally increase as the luminance goes down and it should increase as the gain increases. By binding it to the gain value (and ideally the luminance level) no additional user parameter is required.

3) Make the sales pitch button user assignable. The sales pitch button is the one which changes function each year and activates the latest greatest feature of the camera. On the x920 it is the wifi button. I assume the idea here is that a salesman in a shop is supposed to sell a $1000 dollar camera to a customer by explaining the latest greatest functions and demonstrate it using an easy to access button. I stil have to find the salesman which can demonstrate the wifi function of the x920 live in the shop. After the sale has been closed, this button often has little use (depends of course on what the latest function is that year) so it would be nice if it could be reassigned to something more uefull. Ofcourse my real wish is to have more dedicated buttons but I think I should have realistic expectations here.

4) How a about a click-on wind-muff for the microphones. I'm sure marketing research will show that 90% of all customers would not like to put a hairy, funny looking attachment onto their camera, but I would. I'm sure some chinese company can produce these according to panasonic-specs for a few cents a piece. Sell them as a seperate accessory if you will.

5) Panasonic batteries which will not cost 4 times as much as the batteries most people are buying for their consumer camera currently and which also seem to work fine for them.

Can't think of anything else original right now.

edit:

6) More fluid apperture changes when manually controling the aperture (or gain). Now the changes are always very abrupt and distracting.
 
Last edited:
Even though I am on the Red camp of things, I "love" Panasonic cameras. Having owned the DVX and still owning the HVX200, Panasonic's images and cameras have been a vital part of my development and have been fundamental for my career. I still purchase their consumer still products. Most recently, I bought a LX100, which I love. However, it would be nice if they stepped up the game.

My suggestions:


Take a look at what JVC has done with their APSC, 4/3 mount camcorder. I think that is brilliant.
A new APSC sensor would be great for the Video Realm. Or Full Frame. Panasonic doesn't have to worry with their lenses line or commitment to Micro 4/3rds on video.

If keeping the GH4 sensor:

Another vote for RAW. As a red user, all I can say is that I really love raw and the versatility it permits.
High frame rates, 120 fps in 4K. That is not asking too much, and would differentiate and headline this camera on a already packed and competitive market.

Clean ISO 3200, at least.

4:2:2 codec for all recording modes. Panasonic are great at codecs. This is something I don't see as a challenge for them.

Weather sealing is a great idea.

wireless capabilities

User customisable buttons.

Free selection of color temperature (K input)
Internal ND's
New Pana Leica lenses with FAST apertures, like the legendary 50 1.4 non micro 4/3 lens.
Gymbal/Aero friendly size and weight design.

EDIT- And obviously picture profiles, the "Panasonic Mojo", and XLR audio. And an internal mic for reference sound.
 
Last edited:
Barry_Green said:
1. Take the HC-X1000's body, chop off the lens, pull out the sensor, shove in the GH4's sensor, and put an M4/3 mount on it. Everything else can stay the same. Voila, instant 4K "AF200" with GH4 image quality and 4K/60p, that could use any kind of lens through an adapter or SpeedBooster. I'd buy that.
2. I'd also love to see some slow-mo options. If 4K/60p is possible, then perhaps 1080/240p could also be possible? Or 720/480p? Or standard-def 960 fps?
3. We'd all like to see an option for recording raw, or at least a log-style recording gamma.
Click to expand...
Why the GH4's anemic M43 sensor? Why not just jump it to S35? Then we would not need a speed booster ( quality hit ) to achieve 1.5X crop.
I've been fence sitting since the GH2 for this reason. Wrong sensor!
 
I really hope Panasonic adds a 5" monitor like this new one from Small HD to any updated AG-AF101 or Prosumer camera.
The display on my GH4 is really to small for proper evaluation. I've always felt a 5" display was the sweet spot for an on camera monitor.

http://www.smallhd.com/lp/502/
 
Code: 
global  shutter          global  shutter          global  shutter          global  shutter          global  shutter
------  -------          ------  -------          ------  -------          ------  -------          ------  -------
|    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |
|    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |
|    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |
|    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |
|    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |
|    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |
|    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |
|    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |
|    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |
|    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |
|    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |
|    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |
|    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |
|    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |
|    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |
|    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |
|    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |
|    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |
|    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |
|    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |
|    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |
|    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |
|    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |          |    |  |     |
------  -------          ------  -------          ------  -------          ------  -------          ------  -------
global  shutter          global  shutter          global  shutter          global  shutter          global  shutter
 
Do they even have a global shutter sensor?

Chances are you're going to settle for a faster - with a small chance of an alternative line - readout.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top