The new Nikon D4

A perfect camera for who? There's cameras out there already that are "perfect" for somebody.

BTW, probably want to keep things on-topic with the D4 and not the C300.
 
OK Kyle, but some comparisons are not apples to oranges. Take a look on this request here:

KINOKS said:
(...)

oh, maybe, autofocus wouldn't hurt I guess...
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It looks like D4 has something to offer.


BTW, I could take a look in your christian trailers site, kudos! (E :-) I will have some catholic stuff up in a few months, can I count to be not off topic there? :D
 
KyleProhaska said:
A perfect camera for who? There's cameras out there already that are "perfect" for somebody.BTW, probably want to keep things on-topic with the D4 and not the C300.
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Perfect in the context I defined: A dedicated video camera with none of the mayor flaws of the actual DSLR generation and at a reasonable price for the average shooter. Something like a large sensor DVX100 if you want. The C300 for me is actually the reference, except its price. The D4 might or not might be a further step in the right direction. But its ergonomics are obviously inferior to "my" camera of reference. Anyway, the actual development is exciting and promising.
 
my perfect cameras for 2012:
* just like my current T2i, but slightly sharper and without aliasing/moire issues, and clean-ish ISO 3200, for <$1K
* just like the 5D2, but slightly sharper and without aliasing/moire, with clean-ish ISO 6400, and with decent 422 8-bit codec, for <$3K
and of course keep them hackable so ML can give me all the waveforms, cropmarks, etc that I love so much

I know this will not be enough for a lot of people

(also, moving on from there, I'm much more interested in a better codec and overall cleaner images than I am on 4K)
 
FYI: In the original un-branded edit of the "Out of Tunes" video, there was quite a bit of 8-bit banding in one section of the video, and this section magically disappeared once it became an official Canon demo. I think the C300 has great image quality, but like any camera it's not perfect.
 
I really don't understand this whole 'camera will be obsolete in 2 years' mantra, that people keep saying at the moment. The current crop of affordable cameras (FS100, F3, C300) look fantastic projected on full-size cinema screens!

That isn't going to change.

The pictures they make won't be any less good looking in 2, 4 or even 10 years time (and the viewing formats - TV, cinema - that we use to watch them, probably won't change much either).

Will there be more powerful options out there? Naturally. But we've finally reached a point of diminishing returns with these cameras now. Which means we can all chill out a little, and just get on with shooting.

I've said it once, I'll say it again - it's a hell of a time to be making motion pictures.
 
joe 1008 said:
Perfect in the context I defined: A dedicated video camera with none of the mayor flaws of the actual DSLR generation and at a reasonable price for the average shooter. Something like a large sensor DVX100 if you want.
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And it exists! It's called the AF-100...
 
Grug said:
The current crop of affordable cameras (FS100, F3, C300) look fantastic projected on full-size cinema screens!

That isn't going to change. The pictures they make won't be any less good looking in 2, 4 or even 10 years time (and the viewing formats - TV, cinema - that we use to watch them, probably won't change much either).

Will there be more powerful options out there? Naturally. But we've finally reached a point of diminishing returns with these cameras now.
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While past teaches a different lesson, I hope very much you're right.

Gary Huff said:
And it exists! It's called the AF-100...
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Not really willing to trade my 5D for an AF-100 but with the next model that might change. If the D4 turns out to be basically flawless I would be rather inclined to the Nikon. But I'm still not convinced.
 
Grug said:
I really don't understand this whole 'camera will be obsolete in 2 years' mantra, that people keep saying at the moment. The current crop of affordable cameras (FS100, F3, C300) look fantastic projected on full-size cinema screens!

That isn't going to change.

The pictures they make won't be any less good looking in 2, 4 or even 10 years time (and the viewing formats - TV, cinema - that we use to watch them, probably won't change much either).

Will there be more powerful options out there? Naturally. But we've finally reached a point of diminishing returns with these cameras now. Which means we can all chill out a little, and just get on with shooting.

I've said it once, I'll say it again - it's a hell of a time to be making motion pictures.
Click to expand...

from your lips to gawd's ears....
 
joe 1008 said:
Not really willing to trade my 5D for an AF-100 but with the next model that might change.
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Ah, so you don't really want a dedicated video camera with none of the mayor flaws of the actual DSLR generation and at a reasonable price for the average shooter.

Or you do, just not that particular one. So you want specific specs at a specific price point.
 
Gary Huff said:
Ah, so you don't really want a dedicated video camera with none of the mayor flaws of the actual DSLR generation and at a reasonable price for the average shooter.

Or you do, just not that particular one. So you want specific specs at a specific price point.
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Not really specific ones but better ones. There is still no consolidation in that market. Trading a 5D for an AF100 means getting caught in that karmic wheel of permanent upgrading IMO. I don't need to upgrade now, I can wait one more generation and probably get what I would define as a nearly perfect camera. If I had to get that kind of camera right now, an AF100 certainly would be in my inner circle of choice.
 
joe 1008 said:
Perfect in the context I defined: A dedicated video camera with none of the mayor flaws of the actual DSLR generation and at a reasonable price for the average shooter. Something like a large sensor DVX100 if you want.
Click to expand...

Panasonic AF-100

Large Sensor
Video camera form factor (similar to DVX100 body)
None of the aliasing/moire issues of DSLRs
Price: $4200 (after rebate)

Except you don't want this camera. So what am I missing here?
 
The AF100 is certainly a nice camera but trading it in for my 5D I would feel a bit like doing a step backwards image wise. Yes, few rolling shutter and no moiré - I would love that - but the over all look of my 5D still seems better to me, especially the way the highlights roll off. If it comes to the image, I think the FS100 is the better choice, though with those fiddly buttons and with no ND I doesn't feel like a long time investment to me. So each option has its attractive points but I simply don't feel the need to do the next step - while the C300 and the Scarlet are out of reach financially. But seeing how close we are now to the "perfect" camera, with new options in the race like the D4, it's worth waiting a bit while my 5D still suits nicely.
 
joe 1008 said:
The AF100 is certainly a nice camera but trading it in for my 5D I would feel a bit like doing a step backwards image wise. Yes, few rolling shutter and no moiré - I would love that - but the over all look of my 5D still seems better to me, especially the way the highlights roll off. If it comes to the image, I think the FS100 is the better choice, though with those fiddly buttons and with no ND I doesn't feel like a long time investment to me. So each option has its attractive points but I simply don't feel the need to do the next step - while the C300 and Scarlet are out of reach financially. But seeing how close we are now to the "perfect" camera, with new options in the race like the 4D, it's worth waiting a bit while my 5D still suits nicely.
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I have an FS100, had an AF100, have a 7D and used a 5D. I have NO problems with the buttons on the FS100. I read this from the very beginning from reviews on the camera, but I can tell you, I don't like/dislike the buttons themselves on any of these cameras more or less than the others. The 7D and 5D had smaller buttons that I used all the time.

Now, the lack of ND. Having not had it (7D) to having it (AF100) to not having it (FS100) has been tough on me. I really do miss the ND. Not enough to go back.

With anything it all comes down to what you need right now. I wanted faster rolling shutter, smaller size/weight, and longer battery. I went with the FS100. *I* think it's the best value at the $5k price range, but, my requirements are very personal.

I also don't like full frame. I really like S35 size, and I do think the AF100 is close enough to S35 that it was never a problem on the projects I shot with it.

Like anything, it's all a matter of what you find important. The AF100 or FS100 could be your camera for years if the things they don't excel the best at things that are not as important. If you are shooting interviews, you are going to be controlling the highlights anyways. In these cases, these cameras work really well.

And, like me, if you shoot a lot of slo mo or ramped footage for fight scenes, the AF100 and FS100 are REALLY nice at their 60p modes look great. On cameras like the 7D, the 720p is really really bad.

And I have to say, I think my 7D rolls out to clip VERY nicely, much nicer than my FS100 does. But, I can fix the FS100 footage in post.
 
Seriously this right here is why I both love and hate DVXUSER. I havn't been on in a while, so I stroll into the NEWS, I notice there is a Nikon D4 thread that is still near the top of the list. So I decide to check it out. For fun I click to the last page...what do I find? Af-100, 5D, Sony this, 4/3rds that. I am now going to work my way back and try and figure out whats up. It also seems that almost all the Nikon specific threads end this way. It's always great for a good laugh though. When in doubt, hijack the Nikon thread for the LOLS.

So in order for this post not to be complete ironic.

The D4 looks sweet.
 
joe 1008 said:
The AF100 is certainly a nice camera but trading it in for my 5D I would feel a bit like doing a step backwards image wise. Yes, few rolling shutter and no moiré - I would love that - but the over all look of my 5D still seems better to me, especially the way the highlights roll off. If it comes to the image, I think the FS100 is the better choice, though with those fiddly buttons and with no ND I doesn't feel like a long time investment to me. So each option has its attractive points but I simply don't feel the need to do the next step - while the C300 and the Scarlet are out of reach financially. But seeing how close we are now to the "perfect" camera, with new options in the race like the D4, it's worth waiting a bit while my 5D still suits nicely.
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What I find is that when you have the available funds, you have to get the closest camera to what you want and then modify. If the FS100 suits you and you can afford it, I'd buy it. If the ND filters are the issue, I'd put a mattebox on it (would anyway) and get Tiffen ND glass to slip in there. Otherwise, ND filters that fit your canon or nikon glass are ridiculously inexpensive and easy to come across. It's really less of a "perfect camera" and more of a "better workflow", if you ask me. Otherwise, you'll wait on that perfect camera forever, my friend. They'll never build the one that's in your head, I'm afraid.
 
Joe, I'm simply not in a hurry. But when my day of upgrading comes - probably within the next 12 months - and there is no camera that is closer to my understanding of a "perfect" camera, I'll follow your advice with one of the then existing options. Time will tell...:bath:

Hope there are coming some real world reports of the D4, soon to see exactly where it stands.
 
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Adam J McKay said:
I notice there is a Nikon D4 thread that is still near the top of the list. So I decide to check it out. For fun I click to the last page...what do I find? Af-100, 5D, Sony this, 4/3rds that. I am now going to work my way back and try and figure out whats up. It also seems that almost all the Nikon specific threads end this way. It's always great for a good laugh though. When in doubt, hijack the Nikon thread for the LOLS.
Click to expand...

To be fair, the D4 isn't even out yet, and so most is just going to be speculation anyway. Not sure what you expected to find.
 
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