The new Nikon D4

squig said:
So far I can't see too many flaws with this camera. I think a lot of us DSLR vets are going to be very interested in it. Canon are going to have to play catch up with the MKIII and C-DSLR. Now how do I convince Nikon to loan me one?
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For $6k? LOL
But american dollars, not aussies'...
How much can it cost in the kangaroos' land?
In Europe... ;-)

To Nikon, it was something like or now ...or delayed. HDMI had to be clean uncompressed.

There will be next to come at a fraction of the price for sure. And with the JVC to unveil under $5k...
The point is, after this Nikon D4, I dare to bet with the uncompressed output too.
Where are manufacturers for 4K recording?
'they' (aka 4KDSLR) are coming!
 
It will cost more than in the US but less than in Europe. There's 10% GST if I import it.

I don't really care about 4k. I just want moire free 2k with wide dynamic range and crazy high ISO and I'll be very happy.
 
Then, do not wait, this is the camera. But also a hacked GH2 can be something interesting aside the crazy ISO for much less ;)

Even if I still think Scarlet with HDR, when available, is/will be a better buy :-) If others won't come in the meantime.
 
Emanuel said:
We know that Andrew Reid is not well seen over here. The point is he is fully right a good part of the time :-)

IMO, after the 5DMII boom, Scarlet and GH2 in both distinct ends still make the best purchase.
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Still hoping dropping street prices will turn the C300 into the best choice.
 
sorry, I was wrong, let's not call it dead yet: now that I've read the original Q&A, EOSHD got it very wrong, the "subsampling rows but not between rows" is just explaining how 422 works as opposed to 420 (duh!)
sorry
"wait and see"
 
KyleProhaska said:
Well I don't now about removing the cards, probably more likely when you hit record, similar to 5D. We'll see I guess.
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Word for word, from the Q&A...

"In order to get full 1080p output from the HDMI port for external recording, both memory cards must be removed from the camera. That's what triggers the full 1080p output from the HDMI port for recording."
 
Ah, didn't see that part of the Q&A, good catch. Well, that's not that big of a deal...I'm sure some will whine but it's a small price to pay for 422 8-bit out.
 
NormanBates said:
sorry, I was wrong, let's not call it dead yet: now that I've read the original Q&A, EOSHD got it very wrong, the "subsampling rows but not between rows" is just explaining how 422 works as opposed to 420 (duh!)
sorry
"wait and see"
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Anyway, let's respect the man (I'm not saying you haven't : ) EOSHD is full of good information and IMHO is one of the best blogs about this stuff out there, even if I also agree the guy is controversial at times. But that's the price to pay for having an opinion :-)
 
joe 1008 said:
Still hoping dropping street prices will turn the C300 into the best choice.
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Joe, nice to see you over here. C300 is camera for a year or only a couple, this is what makes Canon's video department to be so conservative. It doesn't matter the efforts of the marketing division to mimic Jannard's products' adds. Scorsese cannot help either (E ;-)

EDIT -- I stand corrected, I should have written, "ads" instead. My apologies, I'm not a native english speaker.
 
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Emanuel said:
Joe, nice to see you over here. C300 is camera for a year or only a couple, this is what makes Canon's video department to be so conservative. It doesn't matter the efforts of the marketing division to mimic Jannard's products' adds. Scorsese cannot help either (E ;-)
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Maybe could I? (8D)
 
Emanuel said:
Joe, nice to see you over here. C300 is camera for a year or only a couple, this is what makes Canon's video department to be so conservative. It doesn't matter the efforts of the marketing division to mimic Jannard's products' adds. Scorsese cannot help either (E ;-)EDIT -- I stand corrected, I should have written, "ads" instead. My apologies, I'm not a native english speaker.
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Seriously: you are right, the C300 is too expensive for that generational rollover every two or three years. That was also my point. If it was a sub 10k camera that would be very different.
 
You guys are echoing my thoughts as well - while the C300 makes a nice picture, it's very hard to believe that most shooters will be using one in 2 or 3 years (other then perhaps documentarians). If it comes in at $15,000, then I believe it's wildly over-priced for most shooters. It can't even do some of the things that the 3x cheaper AF100/FS100 can, which is just strange, because it's hard buy that's it's making images 3x better then those cameras.

Beyond some of the technical limits of the camera, I'm not sure about the form. It looks to be essentially a fat DSLR... And Franken-rigs are something I am trying to avoid at this point.

Would I still love one? Sure. But not sure any 8 bit 1080 camera is worth over 10 grand at this point - not when so many signs point to another leap forward in tech in the upcoming year or two. For some, this camera will be worth it, b/c they'll be able to make immediate money with it. But at that price, I want something a little more future-proof. I'd want something that will be good to go for 4-5 years, and this isn't that camera - at least, not at that price.

Now if the C300 came in at $5000, then hold the presses, all bets are off. Because that's the price point I think most people think an interchangable lens, S35 sized chip, fully manual cam with a couple of XLR inputs, proper viewfinder, ND wheel, that's capable of outputting an 8 bit 4:2:2 50 Mbps signal is worth these days.
 
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I am no Canon fan and $15000 is a lot of money, but let me know what other camera has 'an interchangeable lens, S35 sized chip, fully manual cam with a couple of XLR inputs, proper viewfinder, ND wheel, that's capable of outputting an 8 bit 4:2:2 50 Mbps signal' (and I would add, with amazing ISO performance and with a small form factor) for 5 grand and I'll be first in the cue to buy it. Nevermind what people think, such camera does not exist and so Canon are right to pice it at whatever they like or think it's reasonable.

I don't think the camera will only be usable for only a couple of years. Yes, better cameras (at least in specs) will come out in the near future, but I very much doubt they'll be cheaper than the C300. Panasonic need to up their game, which probably means developing new sensors with better latitude, sensitivity, internal recording, etc - we'll pay the price for that. Sony will probably launch something similar to the F3 but with better internal codec and maybe 1080 60p to beat the C300 - again, I can't see such camera being cheaper than the current F3 or C300. And Canon will probably release a 4K camera that will cost the same as a fully workable Scarlet X (by fully I mean usable for a full day's work) - I'm guessing it will cost around 20 or 25K.

However we will still have the option of buying amazing big sensor cameras for $5000 or less, but with weaker internal codec recording and clean 1080 HDMI output (FS100, new generation of DSLR's, etc). As they say where I come from, nobody will sell you $1 for 99 cents.


 
dracalat said:
I am no Canon fan and $15000 is a lot of money, but let me know what other camera has 'an interchangeable lens, S35 sized chip, fully manual cam with a couple of XLR inputs, proper viewfinder, ND wheel, that's capable of outputting an 8 bit 4:2:2 50 Mbps signal' (and I would add, with amazing ISO performance and with a small form factor) for 5 grand and I'll be first in the cue to buy it. Nevermind what people think, such camera does not exist and so Canon are right to pice it at whatever they like or think it's reasonable.

I don't think the camera will only be usable for only a couple of years. Yes, better cameras (at least in specs) will come out in the near future, but I very much doubt they'll be cheaper than the C300. Panasonic need to up their game, which probably means developing new sensors with better latitude, sensitivity, internal recording, etc - we'll pay the price for that. Sony will probably launch something similar to the F3 but with better internal codec and maybe 1080 60p to beat the C300 - again, I can't see such camera being cheaper than the current F3 or C300. And Canon will probably release a 4K camera that will cost the same as a fully workable Scarlet X (by fully I mean usable for a full day's work) - I'm guessing it will cost around 20 or 25K.

However we will still have the option of buying amazing big sensor cameras for $5000 or less, but with weaker internal codec recording and clean 1080 HDMI output (FS100, new generation of DSLR's, etc). As they say where I come from, nobody will sell you $1 for 99 cents.


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Point taken. OTOH, a fully workable Scarlet is not costing such more than a C300. Some years ago, here, in these same boards, would this just be called in any way other than as mere FUD? :-)

Reason enough to understand Canon is out of range with it, this Nikon will only come to prove it. If this means anyone may deny the Canon's outcome is insanely very good... But at what price? Who can say it be now?

RED can. If Jannard can deliver, they also might do.

About Canon's picture quality, is there any other camera able to produce it? ;-)


PS:

I guess the latter one is the only question to be produced here :D

Today? Only a fair shootout might be able to tell. Otherwise, somehow in the next couple of years for sure ...@4K
 
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Good points, Emanuel. But let me tell you, anyone who decides to go out for a FULL DAY's work with the basic Scarlet X package is a very brave person. I don't think it's possible, so you would have to add some extra batteries (2 at least) and definitely more media (I wouldn't want to shoot with less than 250GB of cards), which already adds another 3-4 grand. By the time you have had it sent to Europe (postage + taxes) you will surely be paying more than $20000.

By the way, back on topic, I really like the D4. I particularly like the feature that allows you to crop in and still shoot HD - if you have invested in Nikon glass it's like suddenly having a plethora of lenses to chose from!! I really hope Canon introduce such thing in their next high end HDSLR cameras (in fact, I hope they implement it in their EOS C cameras too).
 
dracalat said:
Good points, Emanuel. But let me tell you, anyone who decides to go out for a FULL DAY's work with the basic Scarlet X package is a very brave person. I don't think it's possible, so you would have to add some extra batteries (2 at least) and definitely more media (I wouldn't want to shoot with less than 250GB of cards), which already adds another 3-4 grand. By the time you have had it sent to Europe (postage + taxes) you will surely be paying more than $20000. By the way, back on topic, I really like the D4. I particularly like the feature that allows you to crop in and still shoot HD - if you have invested in Nikon glass it's like suddenly having a plethora of lenses to chose from!! I really hope Canon introduce such thing in their next high end HDSLR cameras (in fact, I hope they implement it in their EOS C cameras too).
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Without wanting to highjack this thread with the C300: The Canon for me is the most simple to operate big sensor camera available (well, not yet...). It's basically idiot-proof. While definitely positioned below the Scarlet, it is a kind of reference. Much of its tecnology ( same with the Scarlet) will migrate downwards to cheaper cameras. The next generaton 5 to 6k cameras from Panasonic or Sony will be equally "perfect". Canon probably has planned the C300 with a lot of leeway pricewise. They can counter cheaper cameras by dropping the price of the C300. I expect street prices in Europe droppin below 10k this year with the US to follow. The presence of cameras like the D4 at the lower and the Scarlet at the upper end is very important for pressing that development forward. We will see an affordable almost perfect camera soon, regardless what brand it might be and many DSLR shooters like me still watching from the sidelines will go and get one. The D4 certainly is already an option with more to follow.
 
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joe 1008 said:
We will see an affordable almost perfect camera soon...
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I agree. Sooner or later the perfect camera will arrive. And when it does all this craziness will settle down a bit (I hope). C300 is the closest to what one could call the perfect camera. All it needs is a robust higher bandwith 10 bit codec like AVCintra and a global shutter - if you ask me, that's it!:) oh, maybe, autofocus wouldn't hurt I guess...
 
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