3 years ago they were 3 years younger than today?
The new camera body from RED: Weapon
- Thread starter Gillvane
- Start date
3 years ago they were 3 years younger than today?
Joncarr
Well-known member
Sucks for your friend but get a better agent. The only people that get a "free" rental and it's only the camera brain, are the directors and DP's who work closely with RED to develop the cameras. People like Michael bay, David Fincher, Steven sotorberg, and of course Ridley Scott and their DP's. They get the beta cameras first cause they put it to work and find out what works and what doesn't work before camera goes into production. So no one at RED tries to convince a producer to shoot RED. Maybe a producer wanted you to use a RED, and it's your right to decline. But don't take it personally and take your time online for Christ sakes to be angry at a camera company, not that they couldn't give 2 shits. There not canon and Sony.
(joke) they are the camera company that want to be in your face and if you can't handle it, then just walk away. You seem to really hate RED? Try not to be bias, I'm not a fan of canon or Sony. But I don't read threads and try to bash them everytime I see a opportunity.
FrameFarmMedia
Veteran
I really like Red cameras I can't stand the culture/identity they are trying to foster. Totally divisive and aggressive.
But they do care. People have been banned from purchase or upgrade because they had issue with their cameras and said something online. Is this not true? I've read the threads on Reduser.
Are they selling a camera or a lifestyle here?
This thread is exactly why Red named their new camera/body 'Weapon'. They want to be edgy and hip and make it seem like they are 'not your grandpa's camera brand'. The Lady Gaga approach. Be outrageous and people talk. These types of threads do two things that Red is hoping for. First they rile up the base and encourage polarization of opinion. After all these will be the ones to put down money product unknown. Second is the fact we are all talking about a camera that a good majority of the users of this thread have no ambition to use or purchase. Mind share and strong branding have been what got Red in the door in the first place. Even long after the 'underdog unknown' vrs the 'industry titans' has faded the impression still stands. Divisive polarizing brand loyalty is a winning formula ie Apple vs Android. The worst thing any Camera maker wants is that users become brand agnostic. They all work hard to attach emotions an feelings to an electronic device to try and shake us from the fact they are all just tools and some tools work better for different jobs.
But they do care. People have been banned from purchase or upgrade because they had issue with their cameras and said something online. Is this not true? I've read the threads on Reduser.
Are they selling a camera or a lifestyle here?
This thread is exactly why Red named their new camera/body 'Weapon'. They want to be edgy and hip and make it seem like they are 'not your grandpa's camera brand'. The Lady Gaga approach. Be outrageous and people talk. These types of threads do two things that Red is hoping for. First they rile up the base and encourage polarization of opinion. After all these will be the ones to put down money product unknown. Second is the fact we are all talking about a camera that a good majority of the users of this thread have no ambition to use or purchase. Mind share and strong branding have been what got Red in the door in the first place. Even long after the 'underdog unknown' vrs the 'industry titans' has faded the impression still stands. Divisive polarizing brand loyalty is a winning formula ie Apple vs Android. The worst thing any Camera maker wants is that users become brand agnostic. They all work hard to attach emotions an feelings to an electronic device to try and shake us from the fact they are all just tools and some tools work better for different jobs.
Joncarr
Well-known member
I understand what your saying about RED's culture. But you got to remember how the company started, and what they started is not gonna stop. And by that I mean their culture. How RED started and how their culture came to be go in line what they are today and what they achieved. Remember Jim was a huge fan of the DVX100, that's why he started this dvxuser forum for people to talk about how to make their footage better and show their footage. It got to a point where Jim decided to make his own camera company. He used the community of a forum to design and build his company around, to the point where they have to make all their announcements threw REDuser. And the reasoning for the in your face style they do, it falls back on personality. The good thing about RED, was that you could give your opinion to the owner of the company and he would respond. No other company does that. The bad thing about RED, is that you can give your opinion to the owner of the company and he would respond. And the reason why other companies don't do this, is because they would and we all know Jim takes it personally. That's why he banned 3 people from 05-15. Remember this guy sold his whole oakley company in order to get enough capital to pay for r&d and people, machines, in house sensor development. And he has to respond online to people calling him vaporware, impossible, problematic etc. His whole wealth and future is on the line, it puts you in a different mind set. Put yourself in his shoes and see how you would react. And to this day RED will always try to prove them selfs that they are not vaporware. They will always post new camera improvements and upgrades on reduser. Because it was a community that built the company and they will always use that community to improve their cameras, maybe not their attudie but at least their cameras.
Liam Hall
Veteran
Jon, you seem to be looking at history through Red tinted glasses. Jim didn't sell Oakley to finance Red, neither did he design Red via Reduser. Reduser is both a communication and marketing tool as ably demonstrated by this latest debate about Weapon; an announcement clearly designed as a spoiler to the Arri Alexa Mini launch.
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Joncarr
Well-known member
Oakley was sold in 07. Reduser was started in 06, users been in comucation with RED via reduser on thoughts on camera and improvements and everything that RED announces goes through REDuser ever since. That's the point of it. Regardless of what other companies do.
indiawilds
Veteran
Also,
RED had simultaneous announcement of Scarlet to take away attention from Canon C300.
RED slashed the price of Epic by nearly half before Sony's F5/F55 announcements.
Arri Mini is ready to launch.
We need RED as a good competitor, to innovate and push others. Hopefully they can do it with a new camera.
Simon Shasha
Well-known member
The "weapon" name, the skull logo, the "fighter jet" eject button - this weird "military culture" RED is trying to emulate - I dunno, the whole thing just comes across as somewhat juvenile...
I guess some people like it, though. And I'm sure it's capable of creating beautiful imagery in the right hands. Which is what matters in the end.
I guess some people like it, though. And I'm sure it's capable of creating beautiful imagery in the right hands. Which is what matters in the end.
Ebrahim Saadawi
Carbonite Member
I do like the cool military names, weapon, epic, bombevf, skull logo, kind of amusing and fresh in a market full of DMC-GH4 YAGH G101. But there's a real concern regarding travelling and how the gear is perceived by security personnel throughout the world. With a cool NYC officer I'd have no problem explaining what it is, but with an Arabic police officer in a war zone where there already is a sensitivity towards any cameras (this entire part of the world is a war zone), I'd have a HUGE problem explaining the big metal black hardware labelled Red Weapon with a hazard/skull logo and an "eject" switch . Epic or Scarlet without a skull was fine, but not weapon & a skull. I like and find them cool but no. Why I never considered a digital bolex even though it's perfect and cheap? I'd never be able to shoot with it in my continent without facing major consequences from carrying a modern-looking fire-arm, not to mention getting it into the country in the first place.
Not everyone is as cool or understanding as US/UK officers who speak English and know what a camera can look like. So yes It's a real concern here and deserves a discussion at least.
Maybe make bodies/cases of the new camera without logos/names at all upon request?
Not everyone is as cool or understanding as US/UK officers who speak English and know what a camera can look like. So yes It's a real concern here and deserves a discussion at least.
Maybe make bodies/cases of the new camera without logos/names at all upon request?
Piszkos Fred
Active member
So, if a cop ever shouts at you that "Drop your weapon!"...
It's so embarrassingly transparent. Same with the C300 launch.
Yes, it gets us talking, but as the dust settles to the ground, it will likely be filmed on an Arri.
Maybe it is because i'm European, but the bullish "we are at war" approach of RED just doesn't sit right with me. Especially when a billionaire posts it from his private island. They are a mature company now, they are part of the establishment. Very much at the upper end.
Wouldn't it be weird for an actual weapon to have "weapon" stamped on it? I can't think of any actual weapon, gun, sword, bomb, knife etc., that says "weapon" on it. It would be like gear for a retarded military. Oh, good thing they put "weapon" on my pistol. I was going to use it for a shovel until I saw the stamp that says weapon on it.
However, some grenades do say "grenade" on them. So, I don't think I'd name any camera equipment grenade. That's probably a bad idea.
However, some grenades do say "grenade" on them. So, I don't think I'd name any camera equipment grenade. That's probably a bad idea.
GaryinCalifornia
Veteran
lol I can see this happening... and DVX was started by Jarred Land... but Jarred is now a top guy at red so maybe that's why the mix up... plus Jim Jannard...
hscully
Veteran
I agree. I read through that whole thread on reduser about the coming upgrade. It started out as a heads up that you have to be upgraded to Dragon, before NAB to take advantage of the Weapon upgrade. One guy.. one indie guy, lamented about how if he knew this was coming, he would have updated his Scarlet, yup Scarlet, before the deadline when the upgrade price went from $9500 to $12,500.
Jarred gets on there, maybe 2/3rds through an 80 page thread and says.. OK. He reinstated the old price for the upgrade. Where in the world would you ever hear of such a thing? I was and am still astounded.
I shot my first film this year with a RED and it is, by far, the best looking footage I've ever gotten. By a mile, the best.
About Arri, I would say, that DPs, especially those coming from film like to have neat, predictable packages, and producers who have more to worry about than camera, say OK. Good on them! The RED has always been for people like Fincher, and Soderbergh who like to get their hands dirty - dig deep into post. That is the culture that interests me. The "battle tested - weaponized" stuff is just window dressing.
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ReelWorksMedia
Well-known member
Liam Hall
Veteran
Yes, Oakley was sold in 2007, but JJ didn't sell it purely to finance a new camera company, he sold it to make $2 billion. You can just as easily make the point that he sold it to buy a private island in the Pacific and a new jet...
Reduser was fun in the early days, but it's long since jumped the shark and had lost its edge way before Jim quit the forum no doubt realising himself that it had served its purpose.
BTW I'm not anti-Red, I like Red. I was an early adopter of the tech, but I do feel they're PR and marketing needs a major overhaul. The Scarlet and Dragon releases were an embarrassment IMHO.
FWIW, there once was a basketball team named Washington Bullets. They even won a title once. But the name became a bit of a problem (obviously, all Washington teams have that!) and Bullets were no more.
GaryinCalifornia
Veteran
lol a more fitting name change would be the Green camera... works for the military look as well as good for the environment...