The new camera body from RED: Weapon

I don't have a strong opinion about it. I think the discussion is mostly because there's no details yet on what will be inside the Weapon camera body. When those details emerge, probably during NAB, I'm sure the discussion will turn to that rather than the name.

Yea, it will be interested to see what its all about. I have a feeling its going to be VERY expensive though. The carbon dragon came with a 19K price increase. I could see a new Weapon going for $40K. Hopefully its a lot less.
 
Canon doesn't mean 'cannon'. Canon with one 'n' means an ideal set of standards, aesthetically. It's quite a nice name.

My problem with red is that they claim to be ahead of everyone's time, in a time where the camera is made to disappear, by making their cameras overly present on set. I can't take it seriously, good image or not. It's not a theme/mindset/workflow/attitude that I stand for at this point.

I was very much tongue and cheek. RED is ahead of their time. Shooting 4K in 2007 is pretty amazing. Now 6K, RAW, high frame rate is their standard. They are pretty far ahead.

Not interested in a debate over other cameras. Arri...Canon Cinema...ect...are all great cameras. I would and do use any and all. There is something to say for RED's innovations though.


Nominations have nothing to do with the camera.
 
Sure, specs wise, they're the fastest car. My issue, again, as reflected by the naming, is that it's too present a camera on set and in post even. In my book, ahead of time goes past specs. I think the camera that's most likely to disappear between shots is the one that hails the future. I dunno. My humble opinion. Red's the fastest combustion engine out there. I want an electric.
 
and yes I really don't think I'd pick one up of anything called weapon. It is a big deal to some, and it's really not an attitude i like, good machine or not.
 
Personally, I would always choose to use the right tool for the job...whatever its called. Sometimes it might be a RED camera....others Canon, other's Arri. Production value is always first place in my book. When the production is finished...the viewers will have no idea what equipment was used anyway.
 
Personally, I would always choose to use the right tool for the job...whatever its called. Sometimes it might be a RED camera....others Canon, other's Arri. Production value is always first place in my book. When the production is finished...the viewers will have no idea what equipment was used anyway.

Just in general, what would you say are good reasons for choosing each camera for a different production? I believe Red definitely shines in FX heavy productions with lots of green screen work and CGI.
 
'WEAPON' makes perfect sense for them...how is this a discussion?

Bomb Squad, Battle-Tested, RED Armory, REDMAG, Red Rocket, Red Switchblade...
 
'WEAPON' makes perfect sense for them...how is this a discussion?

Bomb Squad, Battle-Tested, RED Armory, REDMAG, Red Rocket, Red Switchblade...

Maybe the fact that this discussion breaks out every time they pick these names is a clue though? Maybe they have only lost 2% of sales due to this stupid military branding, maybe less maybe more.... I'd be concerned if I lost a single customer due to branding though.
 
Just in general, what would you say are good reasons for choosing each camera for a different production? I believe Red definitely shines in FX heavy productions with lots of green screen work and CGI.


I really like using Canon cameras when the scenes are unpredictable and fast paced. I think they are very good in those situations. I prefer to use RED in slightly more controlled environments or if I have numerous operators to pick up the shots...and budget permitting. Using RED with green screen has been a nice experience. Arri when the production would allow and conditions are suitable for milking the cinematic look...just damn good looking cameras. I have used the F-55 and other Sony cameras in controlled production environments and have been very happy with their performance.

Only go DSLR (5Draw, A7s, GH4) when we need to go "under cover" or if looking into drones.

I would say...the camera that I use the most are the Canon C lines. I am really excited about the C300II. Will definitely pick that one up as soon as its available.
 
The cameras used for the Oscar nominees:

http://nofilmschool.com/2015/02/which-cameras-were-used-oscar-nominated-films-2015


Basically Arri, Film, and Canon Cinema line. Lots of movies shot on Red cameras, big box office movies including the Hobbit, just no Oscar nominees. Don't know why, unless maybe it's a director's preference, or that perhaps FX heavy films that often shoot on Red don't get nominated as much?

http://www.red.com/shot-on-red
A large amount of the big features that were shot with REDS were marketing deals...picked by the producers, not the DPs.....

Jim Martin
 
And that is a shame to have a producer saying what a DP should use. It's like going into a kitchen and telling the chef what knife to use.

It does make me think that Red's time might have passed. I really think we wouldn't have the Arri, Sony, Panasonic or Canon cameras we currently have at the prices they're selling for if it wasn't for the Red One. But is Red shaking anything up anymore? Or is the damage done & Red now is only important to the people who care about Red?
 
And that is a shame to have a producer saying what a DP should use. It's like going into a kitchen and telling the chef what knife to use.

It does make me think that Red's time might have passed. I really think we wouldn't have the Arri, Sony, Panasonic or Canon cameras we currently have at the prices they're selling for if it wasn't for the Red One. But is Red shaking anything up anymore? Or is the damage done & Red now is only important to the people who care about Red?

I think one aspect that didn't pan out exactly like some people were hoping is the "modular" approach. Eventually your new sensor needs a new body and manufacturing wise it's cheaper to make an integrated system than a modular system.

Maybe you save a little bit in the short run with some upgrades, but in the long run it's about the same if you just by a new system every so often and sell the old system in the used market. I prefer the Canon/Arri approach of putting all the necessaries in the camera to begin with rather than the Red ala carte approach.
 
A large amount of the big features that were shot with REDS were marketing deals...picked by the producers, not the DPs.....

Jim Martin
Yea because producers for Ridley Scott, David Fincher, Steven Soderbergh, and Neill Blomkamp to name a few all put a gun to their DP's head to shoot RED.... Or did the word gun offend someone? I wonder why the dp and director of better call Saul choose the DRAGON for their first season? Probably because they thought it was the right camera for the job. Every camera can do a job. And the DP and director agree and choose the camera for the job. ARRI will always win out because it's ARRI, it's a elitist thing to look down upon other camera manufacturers and RED being the biggest threat to ARRI makes them the biggest target to be looked down upon elitist DP's that only work with ARRI or people who can't afford RED are so against it odds are like yourself. If you don't believe Dp's or directors can and mostly are elitist wheather they show it or not, then you may wanna go to a real film set some time. People choose cameras because they think to their mind it's the camera for them and the job. Notice I wrote them before job. Everyone is guilty of this, it's normal to a certain extent. Even myself, which is why I'm buying a Alexa mini cause it's now a form factor I grown so customed to, but I'm also upgrading to weapon, cause I perfer RED's menus and workflow. But now I'll have 2 flavors to choose from without form factor making my final decision.
 
Whatever. Red is basically dead. It was interesting 8 years ago but Arri won that race by far. Now with the Arri Mini, professionals won't be looking elsewhere for size or anything else.
 
When a producer has the choice of paying for a long-term rental (3-4 months) of an ALEXIS package vs getting RED cameras & techs for basically free (on some of the features), then you can see why a producer makes that call...... "I could save $100K or more by using RED?.....We're shooting RED!"

Jim Martin
 
When a producer has the choice of paying for a long-term rental (3-4 months) of an ALEXIS package vs getting RED cameras & techs for basically free (on some of the features), then you can see why a producer makes that call...... "I could save $100K or more by using RED?.....We're shooting RED!"

Jim Martin
So now your changing your agruement from marketing to buy vs rental. That method doesn't work well in the indie world and doesn't work in the big budget. Unless your the hobbit series and need 48 cameras cor 3d that no one else has at the time for the next 3 years or 50 cameras for 3d for the next 2-4 years with the new avatar where the director is his own EP who makes that decision himself. Your typical big budget film producer would laugh at the buying vs rental method, cause cost is not a issue with a camera package, in fact camera and G&E budgets is usually bigger then a lot of indie features whole budgets. Because there a lot more to a budget then camera. You wouldn't tell dekins or Richardson we can't rent your ARRI cam or ALEXA from panavsion cause I got a sweet deal on buying a RED. And thats another thing, do you know how hard it is to get panavsion lenses and the PV mount when your not renting a camera from panavision? Especially when it's a RED body. Its also not just one or two cameras shooting. You also have a spare fully ready package with matching lenses (depending on the glass for the job) ready to go if something fails. Remember the film days?
 
Unfortunately here at DvX these sort of posts just draw out the Red Haters who obviously still in HDLSR fan boy mode for Canon or Sony . Yes Red has released a name for a new camera .....so what ...like it ...or hate you don't have to buy into it.

I'm with Jon, it's up to me to decide what's right for my business model and not up to fanboys from either side of the fence to tell me otherwise . Fanboyism get over it's just unprofessional.

@ VincienLA if Red is dead where do you think that leaves Canon & Sony ?
 
"So now your changing your agruement from marketing to buy vs rental."

No, by RED giving a basically free package to a production, that is marketing for them...and I didn't say anything about buy vs rent.....it was strictly a ALEXA rental vs a basically free rental of REDS.....and as for cost of a rental being nothing on a big film's budget to a producer, then why are crews and actors here in town having their rate cut more and more. I have a very close friend & actor that works all the time on both big features and television (he is consistently in demand) and he was lamenting to me a few months back how even he is getting squeezed on his rate...."3 years ago, a job that I would routinely get paid $100K for, they are offering $25-30K!"

Jim Martin
 
Back
Top