The most directional mic under us$600?

rawfa

rawfa

Veteran
Hi,

I usually shoot a lot of stuff on location with loads of people passing by and external sounds, so now that I´m planning on replacing my videomic pro for something more capable as I was wondering what is the most irectional mic out there under us$600 that will allow me to isolate my subjects' voices.

thanks in advance

Rafa
 
Depends. What's your genre?

If it's "man on the street" interviews, then a dynamic omnidirectional (ENG hand-held) interview mic is probably worth considering.

Lavs, even being omnidirectional, can still be a good choice since the person's body blocks/absorbs most of the extraneous noise.

If you're talking about a boomed mic, or working mostly on narrative pieces, then a shotgun is your best bet... try the RØDE NTG-3.

But here's the thing: even the VideoMic Pro (also a shotgun) can work fairly well... unless it's mounted to the camera. No mic is going to get you what you want mounted on the camera. Get it off the camera, onto a fish pole (boom), and close to the action. The closer the mic is to the subject, the higher the ratio of dialog to background sounds. Aiming the mic is also key: on the camera, pointed straight at the subject, the mic is also going to be pointed right at anything in the background; overhead, pointed down, will isolate the subject from more of the background.
 
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Alex is 100% correct, you cannot cheat physics, the camera is THE worst place if you want clarity and isolation.

Cheers
 
AT8035 and Sony ECM-674/9 were also suggested to me on another thread as ntg3 alternatives for direction isolation. Are they any good?


QUOTE=Alex H.;1986202956]Depends. What's your genre?

If it's "man on the street" interviews, then a dynamic omnidirectional (ENG hand-held) interview mic is probably worth considering.

Lavs, even being omnidirectional, can still be a good choice since the person's body blocks/absorbs most of the extraneous noise.

If you're talking about a boomed mic, or working mostly on nar.

rative pieces, then a shotgun is your best bet... try the RØDE NTG-3.

But here's the thing: even the VideoMic Pro (also a shotgun) can work fairly well... unless it's mounted to the camera. No mic is going to get you what you want mounted on the camera. Get it off the camera, onto a fish pole (boom), and close to the action. The closer the mic is to the subject, the higher the ratio of dialog to background sounds. Aiming the mic is also key: on the camera, pointed straight at the subject, the mic is also going to be pointed right at anything in the background; overhead, pointed down, will isolate the subject from more of the background.[/QUOTE]
 
oh and yes...just one thing..... It will sound stupid and it is but:

"directional does NOT mean that if you aim it away from a shuttle launching you're not going to hear it".....

just saying....
 
The othere thread is very active, so I thought I´d bring some of what is being discussed there here for alternative input.

We´ve analysed a lot of situations, sounds and mics and concluded that I´m looking for is a good directional shotgun mic with good side rejection. Several models were discussed to the table but since I the only place I can only buy from are forum members or from from Ebay as these are the only places that will declare a lower price during shipping so I won´t have to 65% import taxes., this limits my options a little.

So far I could not find the Sennheiser ME67/K6P on ebay. I could only find the ME66 for around $250, the at8035 for around $270, the AT8015 for $290 (what worries about this mic is how hard it will be to find accessories on account of its size), the Sony ECM-674/9X for around $410 and the NTG3 for $570 (the upper the price goes, the lower the budget for getting needed accessories like a boompole, blimp, windshield, cables, etc) . There were a lot more shotguns out there on ebay, but I´m just listing the ones we´ve discussed on the thread.
I know the other mics that we´ve talked about here are maybe not as good, but considering what I can get at the moment If you guys could not get the Sennheiser ME67/K6P which one would you get for the type of side rejection I´ve explained here?
 
Since you've not really answered Alex's questions, why not throw us a bone and at least post a link to this "other thread"...
 
The reality is simply that if you really MUST have more directivity, then anything that is physically longer will give you that. So the longer the interference tube, the better it could be for you. The snag is that you've not mentioned the sound you want. I have never needed, ever, a longer mic. Sometimes, when I have had to use a long one - like an 816/5 the extra depth is NOT what I want, meaning more booming and the extra change of missing something. For me, the kind of results you get from a short shotgun are much more useful. I have an old audio technica 815 that I have had for years and it's only a little longer than a 416, but even the few inches means more accuracy in aiming is needed. Long ones are more difficult to keep wind free, and have more inertia because they have more mass, meaning a quick turn inside the blimp can easily bottom the mic out with a clonk!

If you really need a narrow beam for a specific purpose, how about a dish instead?

Let us know what it is you're trying to do?

I'm not sure how to advise on the cheating the import duty tax - seems a bit restrictive if you can't buy from the ideal people, only people willing to lie on a form!


EDIT - I read the other topic you linked to. Don't forget that a long shotgun used close in, can actually sound thinner, because the actual capsule is a long way away form the mouth, perhaps further than a shorter tubed mic.
 
Hello Rafa,

The longest shotgun on the planet is still only directional at high frequencies. If you're out and about where people and cars are typical, a shotgun's lower directionality at middle and lower frequencies will hear that.

You need to get the mic off the camera and on a boom with a good boom operator. And a shotgun mic may not be your best choice because of the above. A hyper or super cardioid without an interference tube may work a lot better.

Maybe this little video will help explain.

The Audix SCX-1hc and Audio Technica AT4053b are good. I think they run about $600 each these days. You still need boom, wind protection, mixer and experience. As such, consider upping your game and finding a good location sound person. Yes, it will cost more. Hollywood is a very budget conscious community. If they could do without sound people, they would.

How important is your project? How important is your professional growth?

Regards,

Ty Ford
 
paulears said:
...I'm not sure how to advise on the cheating the import duty tax - seems a bit restrictive if you can't buy from the ideal people, only people willing to lie on a form!...
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My thoughts exactly - if you deal with people who are happy to cheat the government with all of its enforcment muscle behind it, what do you think they're going to do if they see a chance to cheat defensless YOU?
 
Wow Rafael, did we touch a nerve or what? The point we were making is that looking at the posts you are making all over the video forums you want some kit - I note you have now selected the AT, but want to import it from outside the country and want it undervalued. I do understand why - and sympathise, but if somebody from abroad I don't know wanted me to sell them some equipment maybe on ebay or maybe direct, then if it were not you and you were a stranger, from the sellers point of view it sounds like a scam, and I'd not sell to somebody who wanted me to ship to a foreign country and give a customs value lower than the real one. So please do not be cross with us for being deeply suspicious - it sounds very strange to us, who often do have import duties and extra tax on goods from the US, into the UK, for example. Worst case is maybe 30% on a dollar price from the states into the UK, but I have never asked an american seller to declare a lower price than the real one. I'm sorry but I find it dishonest. I understand why you wish it to be cheaper, but that's politics, and few of us are interested. We have tried to help, but you do not make it easy - and now to lecture us on how we should post is a bit much. I hope you find what you want, but your countries import restrictions are not our fault?
 
The thing is that I made a VERY specific question about MICS and NOT about foreign politics. I have to pay 65% import taxes on EVERYTHING I buy from abroad. It´s pretty easy for people who live in some of the most powerful countries in the world, where everybody has easy access to things that actually cost a fair price to lecture others who are explored by major corrupt capitalist system (you CANNOT BEGIN to imagine). I´ve been around these forums for almost a decade and NOT ONCE have I ever been accused of scamming anyone. All my transactions were always flawless be it here, ebay or anywhere else. So yes, I find it very insulting these types of accusations/insinuations.
 
Hmmmm, and did we cover that mfgrs. may consider buying from outside country a gray market purchase and not honor the warranty?

Rafael, how does that work down there? Are gray market concerns only those that happen when a country does allow sales of a certain mfgr., but the goods are bought from another country?

Curious,

Ty Ford
 
You cannot know how things are unless you live here. I will no longer be answer these questions. Again, guys, please lets focus. This discussion will lead no where and it won´t help anyone. Can you guys just focus on the audio part of things?
 
Rafael seems fixated on certain elements and not interested in logical solutions on this and the DVi forum. Good luck to him.
 
Please do elaborate as except from not wanting to talk about politics I´m very open minded. People just have to read and understand the title of the thread.
 
rawfa said:
I would appreciate if you could keep non thread related opinions OUT of the thread. Brazil has a very very strong protectionist politics to defend internal production, which I would find fine if they actually provided competitive products for fair prices. An NEX7 costs around us$2500 in here and Brazil DOESN´T make digital cameras. Do you really think I AM THE ONE who is cheating anyone? The GOVERNMENT is the one who is robbing us. Financial Times wrote an entire article on how Brazil is being exploited with unfair prices (cars that cost us$50k in the US are being sold in Brazil for us$250k!!!). I don´t mean to be rude, but please, stick to the thread and to what you know best and if I need advice on how to deal with my thief of a government I´ll post somewhere else.
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I didn't say you were cheating anyone. But the folks who would doctor up an invoice to save you money would also be very likely to cheat YOU if they get half a chance. They've already proven they're unscrupulous, what makes you think you would be immune to fraud on their part? I'm just urging you to be very careful in dealing with such people lest they take your money and send you nothihng in return - it happens every day
 
When things cost more than twice here it's a risk I'm whiling to take. Plus I've been buying from more or less the same sellers forever.
 
Well back to the original topic - assuming we're comparing apples to apples, the differences in side rejection of the various models of short shotguns that you are considering is so slight that it is unlikely to make any practical difference in the pickup of distracting sounds in the environment surrounding your subjects. Even the difference between a short gun and a long gun is not likely to be significant. Committing to using proper mic technique - proper placement at optimum working distances, critical aiming, following subject motion - is the only real solution to the problem. Remember too, the pickup pattern of any mic is not a hard-edged circle projected upon the subject like a spotlight that leaves everything outside its circle dark. The pattern projected on the subject is more like a soft, diffuse floodlight. It's a matter of degree - a shotgun still picks up in all directions - it's more sensitive in the direction where it's aimed than it is to sounds at the side and rear but they all will still pick up sounds located there if they're loud enough. The ratio of desired sound to distracting sound is different with different patterns but no mic totally rejects sounds at the side and read and within a given pattern "famliy" (short gun, long gun, hyper, etc) the practical differences between the cousins is almost non-existent.
 
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