The HVX300 - This Camera is Great for . . ?

S

SamIam

Member
I received my HPX300 yesterday, and took it out shooting last night. I'm trying to decide if it's worth keeping. I realize in a given price range that no camera is perfect. Hopefully this will help anyone considering this camera understand some of the practical aspects of using this system.

I have a JVC GY-HD110U, an HVX200, and a Redrock M2 setup. I shoot everything from pilot TV shows to ENG content. Earlier this year, I was arrested and held indefinitely without trial for filming in the lobby of a public building. The police siezed my HVX - which they still have - and when I went with my attorney to retrieve the footage the camera would not power up.

They've had it for 5 months now, and this pushed me to get a new camera. I started looking at the 150 and then the 170, but loved the features of the 300. (I will probably buy a 170 to replace the 200 after I get a check from the city of Keene)

Lately I've been using the HD110 for everything, and setup is a pain. I have to attach the dual IDX battery adapter, the DTE, and the AT-1800 Dual channel wireless receiver, and all the cabling to go with it. That led me to purchase the HPX300:

What I like about the Camera:

  • Shoulder mount camera that's ready to shoot right out of the bag
  • HD Display is superb. The 110u outlines sharp focus in blue, which I like far more than Panasonic's approach. However with the 300's HD display I can get 90-95% of what I could do with a monitor.
  • 4 channels and 3 xlr means I can use 2 dedicated wireless channels, the on camera mic (AT4073a) all wrapped in porta brace body armor.
  • SDI,TC, rear connectors, and other studio friendly features
  • Zoom on the lens is very fast and the rocker has a nice feel to it.
  • Ability to add a plug in dual channel wireless mic down the road
  • Ability to put a better lens on the camera to fix some of the issues
  • 10-bit 4:2:2 recording, variable frame rates, full 1080/24p
  • Carrying strap! Time Lapse Recording!
  • The ~15-lb camera weight. My 110 with dual batteries, the Wireless mic and DTE is 22lbs.
What I dislike about the Camera:


  • Viewfinder (part 1) - Wearing a pair of Sony MDRs is impossible. I can't see getting away with anything but earbuds when using this camera in an ENG setup. The viewfinder simply does not slide over far enough. There's a monitor speaker which produces a nice feedback tone in your ear if you turn it up too loud. The 110 worked much better, had a padded speaker (not a slot above the LCD), and over ear headphones were usable.
  • Viewfinder (part 2) - The 110 also can telescope out which is nice in a lot of settings. No such luck on this camera.
  • No zoom on the top handle like the HVX200
  • On camera mic is attached to the viewfinder, which I have to loosen to put in the bag. If not tightened down it's going to slide around and destroy the audio (I'm out capturing activists engage in civil disobedience, and don't always have the luxury of walking though my checklist)
  • Shutter speed switch that goes 1 direction instead of a dial that can easily switch up and down until I find the right look. I've changed shutter speed outdoors during a live event to make this crazy lady shouting that we're not Muslims! We're all Judeo Christians here in America! Cycling back though the list is not a great option, but I not understand how to do this on the 300.
  • The headphone jack on the back is really annoying if your out shooting ENG. A second output on the top handle or on the front of the camera would be nice. As is, going from shoulder to hand held requires messing with the cord. I'm sure this will get easier with use, but I literally want something that I could plug headphones and start adjusting as I'm capturing what's going on.
  • Don't count on getting anything but a blurry image unless your at least 2 feet from your subject. In crowds or tight offices, I don't always have that much room to capture 2 people interacting. This is one of the biggest concerns I have with this camera.
So I'm at a loss as to keeping this camera. The skew issue is there an notable even for cars going 30mph when shooting down a sidewalk. That means little to no zoom for shorts at 1080/24p. The answer is a $6,000 dollar lens that would improve a great deal about this camera. And I could always add that down the road.

Shooting in 720P is better with skew, but If I understand the manual correctly, it won't shoot 24pA unless it's 1080 or 480. My footage is being rolled up into a documentary, and I want 24pA. I'd love to start shooting it in 1080/24p but the skew seems like it could be difficult to work around.

I need a good general purpose camera that can do ENG, studio, green screen, documentary work, while performing nicely in a cinema setup. This may be the best camera in this price range out there, it just seems to fall short in so many practical aspects, given the video that says it was designed for someone like me.

Am I missing something or being too picky? I would appreciate any thoughts, corrections or suggestions.
 
I always used to work with bigger ENG-Cameras, so the most of you dislikes are no big problem for me. But i have to agree with:

- Zoom on Top-Handle would be a nice gimmick.
- Im a big guy with a big head..;) The viewfinder could slide a little bit more far, but its okay.
- The 2 feet Problem with the stock lens. I bought a Century 0.8x wide conversion attachement. This helped me a lot!. But i mostly shoot SD, i dont know if these adapters are "HD-certified". I did one Shoot in 1080 with it, in my opinion there where no problems and i didnt hear anything "bad" from the client.

Im very very happy with my current Camera-setup including Wide-attachement and Slot-in-Wireless-Reciever. Its the most comfortable Camera i ever used i think....
 
Hi Sam:

Well, you want what you want. Problem is, if you want the AVCINTRA100 codec with variable frame rates, and more higher end pro type features, in Panasonic, the next stop up the ladder is a LOT more money than the 300.

1. Headphones - I know what you mean about a pair of MDRs not fitting. You should check into some broadcasting single sided jobs or look into sound isolating earbuds, you could just wear on one side. If you are shooting in crazy circumstannces like it sounds like you are, I would advise never sealing off both ears anyway, you need to hear what is really happening around you for safety as well as monitoring the camera. At least you can combine monitoring so you could hear both main channels even through one ear. Yep, not a lot of choice on the viewfinder on this camera, it is what it is.
2. Yes, zoom on the top handle would be nice but what are you going to do? FWIW, I did a shoot with a lot of handheld low, tracking with actors running with me on the side of them or in front of them as they ran. Not really a big deal to roll camera using the regular record switch then move. I agree though, a handle mounted record switch would have been nice.
3. I guess you could always mount the on camera mic on a separate hotshoe/coldshoe mount if that really bugs you?
4. Not sure what to tell you about shutter speed selection as I don't have the 300 here anymore so I can barely remember how you even changed it but you do know that you can build in shutter speeds on the scene wheel, right?
5. Headphone jack is an easy fix, plug in a short male 3.5mm stereo to the jack in the back and run it up to wherever you want the female end. Affix to body or handle with zip ties.
6. Yes, the close focus distance is a bit tough as is losing the wide angle end of things that I have on the HPX170. Ann add on wide angle or CU lens could be the ticket but I have not tried it.

These are legitimate gripes but no camera at this price point is going to have everything you want/need. Still, with the rebate, it is by far the best value in the pro camera market today. You just have to learn how to adapt to it.

Dan
 
CinemaElectronika said:
Hi Emmet,

May I ask you which Century 0.8x wide conversion attachment are you using?

Two weeks ago I asked about comments/experiences with any of these two Century 0.8x lenses with no replies so far...

Here's the link:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1722217&postcount=8

Cheers!

Henry Epstein
Click to expand...

Hi Henry, sorry but i think i was the only one who answered you! :)
Its still the Century WA-8xIF-00 0.8x.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ics_0WA_8XIF_00_WA_8XIF_00_0_8x_W_A_Lens.html

Greetz




 
Emmet,

Sorry I missed that! You are so right... Even more, I replied your post!
I can't even think after these 2 last weeks working almost every day.
My best!

H

:D
 
Hmm any other thoughts? I'm probably going to sell my JVC HD110 with DTE drive and extras and was looking at the JVC HM700 or the Panasonic HPX-300. I do lots of fast action and sports so if this camera still suffers from Jello Vision then I'm back to the HM700 or to look at the Sony's EX3 that supposedly has built in software to limit jellow vision. Or at least the Sony users group says it' a non problem for their C-mos.

I've been hearing that the JVC HM700 suffer from video noise, and I never saw much noise on my JVC HD110 or on any of the Panaosnic Pro-HD platform. I'm referring to non-gained video.

I'll be selling my gear soon (assuming I want to go through with this) and need either a JVC or a Pansonic within a week of selling, so any thoughts, praise, condemnations on either platform would be appreciated. My only reason for upgrading is to move from the stock 16x Funinon lens to the better 17x Fujinon lens and the other less compressed codecs and built in DTE (SDHC or P2 cards) would be a welcome bonus.

thanks
 
Keep in mind, you're on an HPX300 forum - so you can guess what people are going to say.

That said, I was recently in a very similar position as you as a former HD-110 user. I demoed both the HM700 and HPX300 and - while I've always been a JVC fan - the Panasonic won this day hands down. The picture quality difference between the HM700 and HPX300 is very apparent, even to the naked eye. I attribute this to the 300 shooting native 1920 x 1080 (where the HM700 has to up-res) and the difference between XDCAM EX's 35Mbps max data rate vs. the 100Mbps of the 300's AVC-Intra codec. It makes a difference. Indeed, I actually thought the 110's HDV picture looked better than the 700's in my tests!

Another consideration - especially as a former 110 shooter - is how different these two cameras feel on your shoulder. As a sports shooter, you'll probably do a fair amount of shooting from your shoulder and the 300 just feels more like a "real camera" where the 700 feels more like a toy. Also, from previous experience with the 110, the 700 feels very much the same - lots of plastic and less durable. I had to send my 110 in twice - once for a loose handle (it rocked back and forth!) and once because the tip of the power cable came off inside the socket and prevented the camera from running on battery power! In my opinion (and based on experience), JVC's cameras just aren't durable cameras for every day broadcast work.

My final consideration regarding these cameras was what I heard from several crewing companies I'm listed with. They told me, "If you have a Sony or Panasonic camera, you'll get work. If you have a JVC or Canon, few people will ever hire you." This is what they're telling me. If freelance works isn't a consideration, then don't worry about it.

As for your sports work, the only way to honestly tell whether the 300 is going to work for you is to do an in-depth demo. If a dealer near you won't let you do this, contact Panasonic and they'll get you one. You can listen to people tell you "it has horrible skew" or "it's just not an issue" all day long. But until you try it out in your actual application - with the way YOU shoot - it's a moot point. I would suspect the skew WON'T be a problem; it's not for me. But I'm not going to be so presumptuous as to guarantee it.

Good luck! :)
 
Mountainmedia:

Thanks. Everyone I talk to (on the forums) who have modern 3 chip cmos cameras claim they have little problems with scewing. So I'm hoping the demo at Panasonic.com about scewing is an exaggeration to show what scewing is and not how bad in reality it is...?? Anyway, I'll have to try to track down a panasonic dealership in Nor-Cal that I'm no more than 4 hour drive from and see if they have one I can try out for 10 minutes. (I live in the sticks). Who knows maybe even a HPX-500? They seem to have dropped in price over the last couple years, or maybe my willingness to pay for one has increased?
 
Well revisiting a slow thread. Between the $800 rebate on the HPX 300 and local station is making noise to buy my JVC PRO HD gear, I'm back to looking at the Panasonic HPX 300 or JVC HM700. Apparently the JVC will soon start shipping with the same 17x 4.5 lens that the Panasonic has been shipping with and not the older 17x 5 lens or the terrible 16x lens. So I'll try to make it to a dealer in the next week or two to check out a HPX300 in person, but for the users that have it now. for lateral action, I've heard that if you shoot 720p instead of 180p/i that the scewing factor is insignificant or completely invisible? Meaning what I read that it was not noticable and vastly better than Sony's, however what people where pointing their fingers at was 1080i/p scewing. If all of that is so, i'm fine with 720p with multi frame rates.
 
Also keep in mind that besides the rebate, Panasonic is throwing in two E-Series 32GB P2 cards for free, that is worth about $1,200.00.

The HPX300 has less skewing than the Sony EX1/EX3 in 720p and more skewing in 1080. In normal shooting circumstances, the skew is not noticeable. Whip pans, fast moving subjects can show some skew but there are ways to work around it.

Dan
 
yes, really tempting. I'll download the manual today and try to find one in a 4 hour driving circle to take a look at in person and make my own decision in the next week or two. Unfortunatly I do a LOT of higher speed video work. Car races, sports etc so it actually is something i'm concerned about. But I don't think anyone should be very concerned about shooting 720p vs 1080p. The lens and dynamic range of the chip as well as format matter more than the raw resolution, especially when comparing 720p vs 1080p/i. the HPX-500 for network broadcast comes to mind. Clunky and large, but still does a nice image.
 
SamIam said:
Earlier this year, I was arrested and held indefinitely without trial for filming in the lobby of a public building. The police siezed my HVX - which they still have - and when I went with my attorney to retrieve the footage the camera would not power up.

They've had it for 5 months now, and this pushed me to get a new camera.
Click to expand...

You have obviously been mistreated and it has cost you time and money that cannot be easily compensated for.

The fact that this sort of thing is happening with more regularity in the U.S. is frightening to me. These cameras represent our lively hood, to say nothing of our individual rights and freedoms.

Post 911 has shown a surge in photographers and videographers being treated like terrorists. Photography is not a crime.

Those of us working professionals need a lobbyist and legal help to fight this sort of abuse. It would be great if we could get some attorney's on our side to review situations like this, maybe pro bono or maybe we could start a photographer's rights association, a non-profit group with small annual dues to further the protection of our rights.

If I wanted to live in a police state, I would have moved to the PRC or Russia.
 
720p works great

720p works great

I have been working for the past 3 months now with 301 in a project, which consists mostly on slow whip pans with no other action in the scene.

My very first reaction was regretting that I would not have gone with 500.


Then I soon noticed that 720p works fine, and whatever I would do, 1080 would not be deliverable for a client.
I think it could be said more clearly, that for everybody worried about skewing, 720p is the answer. Maybe, it doesn't sound so glamorous as 1080, and people bypass the case....But, to get a job paid, it helps greatly.

I have blown up stills in photoshop btw 720p and 1080i to see if there would be noticeable difference in sharpness, and really cant say there would be a difference noticeable in moving image.

Compared to 500, 300 still has less low light sensitivity, but 720p lets me use VFR (or shutter), to gain 1-2 extra stops.
 
We have an HPX300 in-house for our development work, though we also shoot HPX500. The 300 does a good job for interviews, especially if you're working in larger spaces with good lighting to help with shallowing your DOF. The 10-bit AVCIntra100 renders beautiful images.

We've largely abandoned DVCProHD, unless we're working with the 500 on multi-camera days.

e
 
THe 300 does have some limitations and I'll say that very camera system has limitations so no news there. I think the biggest positive for me is that the 300 does AVC I and full raster 1080. THose 2 things in combination are a huge plus. I don't know if its just me, but when I see EX footage side by side with 300 footage shot AVC-I, the EX footie looks pale in comparison. Sure you can get a nanoflash rig for the EX but then we're talking about a few more thousands of $ and extra rigging of the outboard recorder.

If the 300 didn't have the 3mos rolling shutter artifacts, you'd basically have a 1/3" camera somewhere in between a HPX 2700 and 3000 which for the money a HPX 300 costs would be a giant killer. I say ***** all you want about the 300 but it is an exceptional value in my eyes.
 
Yes AND---- not particularly apropos of this discussion about the 300, but more about rolling shutter. I know everyone loves Canon 7D's these days, but that camera has wicked rolling shutter and no one seems to complain about it.
 
I'll jump in with my impressions of the 300 having used it for about 6 months now. For the price, I really don't think there' s a better, more versatile camera available. Being able to shoot everything from 4x3 DVCPRO to 16x9 AVC-Intra 100 has been very useful to me. I've shot projects ranging from local TV spots to multi-hour-long seminars. I've completed about a dozen projects thus far with the camera and my clients universally say how impressed they are with the quality (compared to the JVC GY-HD110 I was using). I'm currently in pre-production for a documentary involving cycling and - based on tests I've completed - have absolutely no fear of shots being ruined by skew. I'm aware of the issue and know how to compensate for it while still getting the shots my client wants/needs - case closed.

My final point is - every camera - from the $60,000 option down to the $6,000 option has its pros and cons. To judge any camera solely by specs or anecdote is shortsighted in the least. One needs to demo it and see if it works within your workflow and for the projects you produce. If it doesn't, move on until you find one that does.
 
I actually shot a documentary last year on cycling with the hpx302 (aust version ) and shooting 720/50p skew was a non issue. Incidentally I chose the 302 over the 502 for it's native resolution and avc intra. I think side by side the 302's resolution outshines the 502. I looked at the 502 for a long time but it just didn't feel like a step up to HD from the 2/3 inch SD cam I was using so I went with the 302.

I think the 500 is a great camera and definitely for low light situations it's better than the 300 but I also think compared to the current crop of native res sensors it's a tough sell now, maybe it's time for a 600 with a 2/3 CMOS, AVC intra and a wireless radio mike slot to compete with Sony's 350 ?
 
I've nearly bought a 301 about half a dozen times now. I hear about some issue or other on the net, and then change my mind. Then I get a demo or talk to an owner and this changes my mind, then something else pops up. My latest concern is something I noticed at a recent video show in London. The lens. On the test set up, I zoomed in fully and noticed the lens breathes quite badly - the focus ring changes the field of view noticeably when you hunt for focus. Fair enough, the light level was not great, and the lens was wide open - but I've not got any cameras that do this quite as much. I was going to buy one at the show, as the preferred dealer was there and I could get a good deal - but once again, I suspect I'm just not going to be suited to this one - I'm not normally a ditherer - I usually jump straight in.
 
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