The Dark Knight

OK, been stewing on this for a few days now. Will have to watch it again to really decide what I think, but . . .

The more I'm thinking about it, the more disappointing I think it is. The more plot holes come to mind. The more ridiculous Gordon's little soliloquy at the end (to an 8 year-old!) seems. The less and less like the brilliant Batman Begins it seems.
 
Oh, like the police being so far away from Gotham General -- you know, the one they were just all over -- that the Joker has time to stroll out and wander away.

That the Joker burns a pile of money to show that he doesn't care about money, but spends his time robbing banks.

That the Joker says he does what he does to show that plans always fail, but no one has more elaborate plans than his. And then he was surprised it failed.

Just a few.
 
1. Yes, that was a little strange, but I think it futhers how badass his charactor seems. He makes the reporters run away in terror, and waltz's out of the grounds like he answers to nobody.

2. I think he intentionally robbed the crime syndicate to gain their attention.

3. I think Joker isn't an all powerful, and that was just used to convey that he underestimated the human charactor. It was sort of funny and he didn't see the contradiction coming, but I wouldn't call it a plot hole.
 
Responses in bold... picky picky. :)

David Jimerson said:
Oh, like the police being so far away from Gotham General -- you know, the one they were just all over -- that the Joker has time to stroll out and wander away.

They were evacuating all the hospitals if you recall, they just made the General a priority. It was emptied and they moved on.

That the Joker burns a pile of money to show that he doesn't care about money, but spends his time robbing banks.

He robbed the banks to get the attention of the Mob. Don't forget, working with them and getting the scoop on the dirty cops must have helped with his planning considerably. Especially concerning Harvey Dent.

That the Joker says he does what he does to show that plans always fail, but no one has more elaborate plans than his. And then he was surprised it failed.

His plans were well thought out but there was plenty of chaos thrown in. Just look at the party ambush! That and he's crazy!! :)

Just a few.
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I enjoyed both movies for what they were, comic book movies. Neither are close to perfect but they are both damn entertaining! :thumbup:
 
They know the Joker is planning to blow a hospital, and they don't leave anyone there in case it happens to be that one?

There's also . . .

Backing a bus into a bank, and then pulling out of the rubble without anyone noticing, or there even being a scratch?

A guy gets his face burned down to his skull, has exposed tendons and an eye about to fall out, refuses pain medication, and doesn't get a hint of infection nor the slightest sense of discomfort while he's running around town whacking people. (The Nolan insistence on realism, of course.)

Batman falls multiple stories -- twice -- landing on a street, and also smashing in the top of a car with a woman on top of him -- and doesn't have the slightest injury . . . in his magical armor which can't stop a dog bite. (See Nolan's realism, above.)

Wayne sees one phone specially modified to give a sonar signal and map a room -- for about five seconds -- and somehow manages to figure out how to make every cell phone in Gotham behave that way, without ever touching any of them. And then he wires it into his armor. In . . . a couple of hours. After building a 300-screen setup and wiring it to self-destruct. (More realism.)
 
Again...

David Jimerson said:
They know the Joker is planning to blow a hospital, and they don't leave anyone there in case it happens to be that one?

They did. In case you missed it the Joker killed a couple of cops who were guarding the only person left. I'm betting they were running a little thin on cops during that day. :)

There's also . . .

A guy gets his face burned down to his skull, has exposed tendons and an eye about to fall out, refuses pain medication, and doesn't get a hint of infection nor the slightest sense of discomfort while he's running around town whacking people. (The Nolan insistence on realism, of course.)

Well, he didn't have time to die from infection so I think he's still in the clear. :)
Seriously though, I know he's trying for realism but this is Two-Face after all. Again, a comic book character about a guy with half his face melted off.

Batman falls multiple stories -- twice -- landing on a street, and also smashing in the top of a car with a woman on top of him -- and doesn't have the slightest injury . . . in his magical armor which can't stop a dog bite. (See Nolan's realism, above.)

Well, his falls are always slowed down by the cape setup he has, that much is clear. He has also showed injuries throughout. Once again... comic book movie. A little picky here. Would it be better if he breaks his back half way through?

Wayne sees one phone specially modified to give a sonar signal and map a room -- for about five seconds -- and somehow manages to figure out how to make every cell phone in Gotham behave that way, without ever touching any of them. And then he wires it into his armor. In . . . a couple of hours. After building a 300-screen setup and wiring it to self-destruct. (More realism.)

He took an existing technology and applied it. Hardly unbelievable.
If you look at any movie this closely (especially the comic book type) you'll be able to tear them all apart. Superman went back in time be reversing the rotation of the Earth for cripes sake! I still love it though. :D
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Seriously though. You obviously don't like it and that's cool. I just think if you turn this kind of criticism towards Batman Begins you'll be just as disappointed.

Mike
 
David Jimerson said:
They know the Joker is planning to blow a hospital, and they don't leave anyone there in case it happens to be that one?

There's also . . .

Backing a bus into a bank, and then pulling out of the rubble without anyone noticing, or there even being a scratch?

A guy gets his face burned down to his skull, has exposed tendons and an eye about to fall out, refuses pain medication, and doesn't get a hint of infection nor the slightest sense of discomfort while he's running around town whacking people. (The Nolan insistence on realism, of course.)

Batman falls multiple stories -- twice -- landing on a street, and also smashing in the top of a car with a woman on top of him -- and doesn't have the slightest injury . . . in his magical armor which can't stop a dog bite. (See Nolan's realism, above.)

Wayne sees one phone specially modified to give a sonar signal and map a room -- for about five seconds -- and somehow manages to figure out how to make every cell phone in Gotham behave that way, without ever touching any of them. And then he wires it into his armor. In . . . a couple of hours. After building a 300-screen setup and wiring it to self-destruct. (More realism.)
Click to expand...
I gotta admit the I thought about the bus thing as well.

But as far as Harvey goes, I think maybe your taking it a bit too serious. I mean thats his character, if Two Face died from infection...well thats just...lame.

Falling off buildings, ehh kinda sketchy, but I wouldnt say its sometime to incredibly bad. You can see him sorta slowing himself down, or at least attempting to, with his cape.

The phone thing, earlier in the movie Wayne tells Fox that he reassigned the R&D department to a "government telecommunications project" that he failed to give details on. This is him referring to the phone sonar thing - it had been in the works for a while.
 
I think Michael sums it up quite well. You can't expect perfect realism from a superhero movie. After all, its about a billionaire who fights crime in a high tech bat costume. It was a fantastic movie. A little nit-picking never hurt but if you do to much if it you may find your viewing experience the worse for it.
 
Two-Face in the comic was disfigured, but he wasn't missing a large part of his face, including the dermal layers. His body would be wracked in fever, and he probably would be comatose.

If they expect a hospital might be blown up, I would think they'd have someone there paying attention to the place, not just "guarding" a single patient. You know, perimeters, road blocks, all sorts of stuff. (And didn't anyone bother to, oh, LOOK FOR EXPLOSIVES?)

I bring these things up because of all which is made about the "realism" of the movie. You can't really bring that up as a point in its favor and then say "comic book movie" to gloss over every blemish. (I say this in general, not to anyone specifically).

How does one "apply an existing technology," one which was specially created in a single modified phone, to 30 million cell phones already on the street? And considering he has to go to Fox every time he wants a little upgrade, how does he even know how it works or how to apply it? And in a couple of hours?
 
Daryl Auguste said:
I think Michael sums it up quite well. You can't expect perfect realism from a superhero movie. After all, its about a billionaire who fights crime in a high tech bat costume. It was a fantastic movie. A little nit-picking never hurt but if you do to much if it you may find your viewing experience the worse for it.
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Ah, but the movie takes ITSELF exceptionally seriously, as do most of the gushing reviews of it. You forgive something which never pretends to be anything it's not. But you're correct to be more critical of something which holds itself up to a higher standard.

This movie was not made to be a mere "comic book movie."
 
He was working on a government telecommunications project as mentioned early in the movie. He just tied that to the existing technology that fell in his lap.

Again, you're really nitpicking here.

Come on... your arguing about this guy? Seriously!?
Have fun.

twoface_31.jpg
 
David Jimerson said:
Ah, but the movie takes ITSELF exceptionally seriously, as do most of the gushing reviews of it. You forgive something which never pretends to be anything it's not. But you're correct to be more critical of something which holds itself up to a higher standard.

This movie was not made to be a mere "comic book movie."
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No... it was made to be one of the BEST comic book movies. In that vein it succeeded.

:beer:
 
Like I said, I'm making my critique as serious as the movie -- and the reviews -- invite me to. Besides, I only listed the plot holes because someone asked.
 
Michael Anthony Horrigan said:
He was working on a government telecommunications project as mentioned early in the movie. He just tied that to the existing technology that fell in his lap.

Again, you're really nitpicking here.

Come on... your arguing about this guy? Seriously!?
Have fun.

twoface_31.jpg
Click to expand...

I'm not arguing about that guy.

I'm arguing about this guy.

2474674645_2105c68466.jpg
 
David Jimerson said:
Ah, but the movie takes ITSELF exceptionally seriously, as do most of the gushing reviews of it. You forgive something which never pretends to be anything it's not. But you're correct to be more critical of something which holds itself up to a higher standard.

This movie was not made to be a mere "comic book movie."
Click to expand...

Agreed.

For example, Two face didn't "need" to look like that. For realism, he could be desfigured, not to that extent. That would get the "two-face"message out, and preserve "realism".

The "fall"with the girl was also a bit unbelievable. they could've added some sort of way to make the landing more believable.

As for the Joker's motives, i find them valid, due to the craziness of the character. However, I hate the "character off screen" for "the prestige" or "Plot twist" trick.

One thing that annoyed me was Joker's goons. Talk about a loyal bunch, willing to die for the boss, even when he just burns millions of Dollars in front of them.

I'm with Jim on this: I'm as critic as the film's pretentiousness allows it to be. This is no Heat, no Goodfellas. This is a Comic Book movie trying to be Heat, but still falling short in certain areas. Its still entertaining though, and somehow fullfiling. Its a good summer movie- just not as good as everyone so desperately wants it to be.

EDIT- I'm still waiting for a serious, expressionistic Batman movie to come- one that could somehow feel "right', like "Sin City"does visually. Burton was visually close in Batman Returns- with current technology, I believe a true "Frank Miller looking" Gotham City is possible...
 
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