The Dark Knight Rises

I enjoyed it. Not knowing how Bane knew everything wasn't a problem for me when watching, as I automatically assumed, like Raz Algul, that they had ears and eyes everywhere, and Bane put all the pieces together. In TDK, one of the employees takes notice of applied sciences, in the same movie Lucious Fox is alerted by someone else that there was a break-in in applied sciences, and in BB applied sciences is a department, just one that has gone downhill. The location of applied sciences is easily obtainable. However the fact that it holds Batman's Armory is only something that can be deduced if you figure out batman is Bruce Wayne. That's the only muddy part.

However, to a certain degree people must have realized that Batman had to be rich somehow. How can an average man get military grade prototypes and fancy gear like that? In fact I'm surprised Gordon didn't know till the end.

It was a bit weak, i'll give them that, but it wasn't a glaring plot hole like some are saying.

The only real beef I had with the film was the, let's be honest, cliched ending? I'm not talking about the fact that bruce is alive (which I enjoyed), but the way Batman (the symbol) died. He carries a bomb off to save the city... really? Armageddon, Avengers, two movies just off the top of my head. As soon as I realized he was dragging the bomb away, I just rolled my eyes. Well by this point I was so into the movie it wasn't too terrible, but it didn't sit well with me.

Still enjoyed it though. The weakest of the trilogy, but that almost mirrors the original star wars trilogy. :D
 
Jon Starr said:
In fact I'm surprised Gordon didn't know till the end.
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The movie makes it pretty clear that Gordon doesn't care to know who the Batman is.

The only real beef I had with the film was the, let's be honest, cliched ending? I'm not talking about the fact that bruce is alive (which I enjoyed), but the way Batman (the symbol) died. He carries a bomb off to save the city... really? Armageddon, Avengers, two movies just off the top of my head. As soon as I realized he was dragging the bomb away, I just rolled my eyes. Well by this point I was so into the movie it wasn't too terrible, but it didn't sit well with me.
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Yeah, poor choice, but you are kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place being the third wheel in the trilogy. You have to up the stakes somehow, and it's going to be a "bomb" of some sort if you want destruction on a mass scale. I think the unfortunate aspect are the movies Dark Knight Rises is surrounded by this summer.
 
The whole plan of The League of Shadows in Batman Begins was to help create Thomas Wayne's fortune, make him build the train system and place the Wayne Towers building in a place where that microwave thing would blast the water and poison the city by steaming up the poisoned water supply and then kill Thomas Wayne and create Batman, right?
I mean, that's the genious of that film, the plot is the most comic booky you could think of but done completely deadpan straight faced seriously.

But if The League of Shadows created Batman and Bane and Talia runs The League of Shadows, why on Earth would it be strange that they knew everything about Batman and Bruce Wayne? They're the League of Shadows!
 
Jawa Ex Machina said:
The whole plan of The League of Shadows in Batman Begins was to help create Thomas Wayne's fortune, make him build the train system and place the Wayne Towers building in a place where that microwave thing would blast the water and poison the city by steaming up the poisoned water supply and then kill Thomas Wayne and create Batman, right?
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Actually, no. The plan was originally to cause an economic downturn in Gotham City that would cause regular people to turn, in their desperation, to crime, and thus having the city tear itself apart from the inside out. Thomas Wayne's fortune was actually used to thwart this plan, though unknowingly.

Ra's new plan was essentially the same, but to artificially cause the panic via Scarecrow's fear gas toxin. It would still be ordinary Gotham citizens helping to tear the city apart.
 
Gary Huff said:
Actually, no. The plan was originally to cause an economic downturn in Gotham City that would cause regular people to turn, in their desperation, to crime, and thus having the city tear itself apart from the inside out. Thomas Wayne's fortune was actually used to thwart this plan, though unknowingly.

Ra's new plan was essentially the same, but to artificially cause the panic via Scarecrow's fear gas toxin. It would still be ordinary Gotham citizens helping to tear the city apart.
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Well even with that, it's not weird in any way that Bane knew Batman's identity and could figure out where the armory was stashed.
 
Disagree. There was practically zero justification for it within the narrative. He simply just "knew", and it was a poor deus ex machina.
 
Disagree. There was practically zero justification for it within the narrative. He simply "just knew", and it was a poor deus ex machina.
 
Gary Huff said:
You keep using that phrase. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Do you know a better term to describe an abrupt, convenient plot device that serves only to move the story forward without any pre-existing justification or narrative groundwork? I'll be happy to use that instead. :D
 
Traditionally, A Deux Ex Machina is considered an act of god that resolves the story. It literally means god in the machine. By the way, a Deux Ex Machina can work in a story. Exhbit A, the ending to Raiders of the Lost Ark. Should not work at all, but it does somehow. Possibly because they spend 2 hours building up the power of the Ark, so when it's finally unleashed it doesn't just come out of nowhere. Still, it kind of goes against the laws of action filmmaking as Indy just stands there with his eyes shut during the climactic moment and doesn't personally vanquish the bad guys.
 
The Stand is also a deus ex machina ending, along with War of the Worlds. Deus ex machina, as Batutta pointed out, is a device that resolves the story/plot, not simply a plot contrivance. If Batman suddenly pulled out a "fusion reactor deactivator" device out of his utility belt and used it to resolve the plot of the atomic bomb detonation, that would be considered deus ex machina.
 
refocusedmedia said:
The thinking was, they "resolved" how Bane would possibly know those things by simply having him know those things.
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That's a huge stretch of what "resolving a plot" means. First, the film never tries to answer that question (nor do I think it needs to), and neither is there any sort of "plot" about how Bane knows anything. That's not part of the story.

If the film centered or had a subplot about "How does Bane know all of this", then revealing at the end that he's associated with the League of Shadows (especially if the League had never been brought up before in any context) then you would have more a point.
 
Barry_Green said:
Well, here's one way they weren't similar at all -- in TDK, I was pretty much enraptured the whole time. In TDKR, I was pretty much bored the whole time...
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Same here.

I've said it before, The Dark Knight is an ok film, but was brought to a high level due to Ledger's performance.

I went into The Dark Knight Rises with few expectations, and even then, was bored pretty much the whole 2:45 hours of it.

As for Bane, well I like Tom Hardy. I had never seen him until Inception. I find him to be one of those actors you just notice and think "damn, this guy has it". I don't think the problem was with him...although I had a hard time hearing some of his dialog due to the audio effect used on his voice.
 
Denis Haineault said:
As for Bane, well I like Tom Hardy. I had never seen him until Inception. I find him to be one of those actors you just notice and think "damn, this guy has it". I don't think the problem was with him...although I had a hard time hearing some of his dialog due to the audio effect used on his voice.
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Check out 'Bronson', he's fantastic in it.
 
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incase u missed it... there's a whole movement:) Marion's acting was really bad in this movie at some point I thought her french accent became irish..... the part where she meats Wayne at the party.
 
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