The Dark Knight Rises

I would have enjoyed the movie more if Bain's voice didn't sound comical, almost like a circus caller. I also disliked how everyone waited for their turn when it came to kicking Bat Man's ass. If I were a bad guy I'd shoot him in the back of the head when his back was turned to me. I also grew tired of someone saving everyone at the last second since that seemed to happen about a dozen times in this episode. A few times coincidence can be ignored, but not that many times. And lastly, the exposition in this story was over the top. I think people are giving Nolan a free pass when he should be getting slapped.
 
Snazzy Flapper said:
I also disliked how everyone waited for their turn when it came to kicking Bat Man's ass. If I were a bad guy I'd shoot him in the back of the head when his back was turned to me.
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This is an unwritten rule for all action movies it seems like, especially the fight scenes. But I get what you mean.
 
I've seen plenty of action movies where they approach group fight scenes in a much more legitimate and realistic manner. I thought it was corny.
 
capitalP said:
This is an unwritten rule for all action movies it seems like, especially the fight scenes. But I get what you mean.
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Well in this case due to the angles and how long the shots held...you had time to actually stare at it happening a lot longer which is what made it corny IMO. Lots of people noticed in the theater, you could hear the rumblings of comments.
 
A lot of the crowd fighting scenes were really poorly choreographed also. You could clearly see people making over-exaggerated fighting gestures that based on the camera angles revealed how fake they were. I guess maybe I wasn't supposed to look at them.
 
The more I paid attention, the more of a disappointment it became. Not that the other films are flawless, but this one had the added weight of bringing the saga to an end and it didn't measure up, imo. Numerous plot holes aside (they've been covered multiple times already), the whole film just felt rushed and disjointed. Many of the dialogue scenes were a mess as well. And above all, the ending was just awful. The "twist" that Tate was actually the heir was poorly executed, and the reveal that Wayne actually lived was laughable (especially considering how they edited the bomb disposal sequence).


If you turned your brain off and took the "just a movie" route, it was certainly a fun ride, but I expected more from Nolan. That said, Bane was absolutely incredible, what a presence he had. Bale, Caine, and Hathaway were all excellent. Zimmer and Pfister were in top form, and JGL was a great addition. All in all, it was a good (not great) film marred by multiple flaws and shortcomings.
 
refocusedmedia said:
The "twist" that Tate was actually the heir was poorly executed, and the reveal that Wayne actually lived was laughable (especially considering how they edited the bomb disposal sequence)...
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per the end edit:
If you are talking about the shots of Batman in the cockpit; I believe we were privvy to his "perceived demise"...especially from the POV (PERCEPTION Of View) of Gordon. This was a gift, if you will, to him; so as he no longer has to shoulder a lie. In many ways, I would say it was an Inception-like finale...but one of those ways was not an M. Night way. Nolan is anything but a one twist pony.

I plotzed over Rises, btw. Loved it, loved it. All the same, I could hear...or see the critiquables some would have in real time. I just think, in this case, Nolan kept himself as segregated from public opinion as he traditionally & so famously keeps plot points away from...well, public opinion (prior to release). He all but paraphrased, "Damn the expectatoes...FULL SPEED AHEAD!"



Edit:
He was ****ed if he does, ****ed if he didn't. Have you all forgotten that many were saying (with the straightest of faces) that The Dark Knight was the best, or one of the best, movies ever made...not comic book movies, mind you, but movie movies.
 
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capitalP said:
Thanks for the breakdown. Makes sense now, I guess true Batman fans would love the fact that they stayed true to the story, bandwaggoners like me who knows no better liked the other lol.
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Heck, I liked the 60's TV show... for its kamp/kitch... at the time it was a 'refreshing'... for some value of refreshing... change from the more 'dead serious' type crime buster shows... such as "The FBI"...
 
<SPOILERS>

I think honestly the biggest problem with this film is that it's too short. Yes, even at 164min, the film was too short for all the story they were trying to tell. If you watch Nolan's other films, they're packed to the brim, but the pacing is never cut short; "drama scenes" are never short-changed. But in DKR, it seemed like Alfred and Bruce were having serious, teary-eyed moments quite often, but each one lasted just a few seconds and we cut away too quick for me to really feel anything. Hell, even when Alfred stands there looking at Bruce's gravestone, and apologizes to Mr and Mrs Wayne's graves, it feels too quick.

It's also my opinion that Batman SHOULD have died. I get the twist, and figured they'd probably go with it (it was pretty obvious after all the auto-pilot discussions), but I kinda felt like the only way to truly pay off everything set up both in TDK and throughout DKR (particularly, the exchange between Selina Kyle and Batman, SK: "You don't owe this city anything. You've given them everything." Batman: "Not everything. Not yet.") would be for Batman to really MAKE that sacrifice, rather than just sacrificing an expensive flying vehicle. It would also be the only way to top the sacrifice Batman made in TDK; that of allowing the city to hate him, blame him for murder, just so that they could have hope in an idea, in a symbol, which is what Bruce became Batman for in the first place. And then in DKR, had he died in the end, it would have been full-circle: he begins with the intent to become an incorruptible symbol for good, he sacrifices his own good name to give the people a new symbol in Harvey Dent, and when a new villain comes along who exposes Dent, Batman returns and sacrifices himself in whole, to give Gotham one final, incorruptible hope. Especially after all that, "You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain," talk from TDK, this film should have ended with Batman dying a hero.

Just sayin'.

-JMT
 
Michael Traven said:
<SPOILERS>

I think honestly the biggest problem with this film is that it's too short. Yes, even at 164min, the film was too short for all the story they were trying to tell. If you watch Nolan's other films, they're packed to the brim, but the pacing is never cut short; "drama scenes" are never short-changed. But in DKR, it seemed like Alfred and Bruce were having serious, teary-eyed moments quite often, but each one lasted just a few seconds and we cut away too quick for me to really feel anything. Hell, even when Alfred stands there looking at Bruce's gravestone, and apologizes to Mr and Mrs Wayne's graves, it feels too quick.

It's also my opinion that Batman SHOULD have died. I get the twist, and figured they'd probably go with it (it was pretty obvious after all the auto-pilot discussions), but I kinda felt like the only way to truly pay off everything set up both in TDK and throughout DKR (particularly, the exchange between Selina Kyle and Batman, SK: "You don't owe this city anything. You've given them everything." Batman: "Not everything. Not yet.") would be for Batman to really MAKE that sacrifice, rather than just sacrificing an expensive flying vehicle. It would also be the only way to top the sacrifice Batman made in TDK; that of allowing the city to hate him, blame him for murder, just so that they could have hope in an idea, in a symbol, which is what Bruce became Batman for in the first place. And then in DKR, had he died in the end, it would have been full-circle: he begins with the intent to become an incorruptible symbol for good, he sacrifices his own good name to give the people a new symbol in Harvey Dent, and when a new villain comes along who exposes Dent, Batman returns and sacrifices himself in whole, to give Gotham one final, incorruptible hope. Especially after all that, "You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain," talk from TDK, this film should have ended with Batman dying a hero.

Just sayin'.

-JMT
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SPOILERS

I agree, i also think it needed more time. As for the "death" part, while I also think he should have "died", which would obviously ,make for a more fitting end to the trilogy, this would "kill" the franchise and Warner would never allow that! :) . Also, for all intents and purposes, Batman really "Died": they built him a statue in his memory! Supposedly the next "masked crusader" would be "Robin". I have to admit I read some comics in my days, and I would say they will follow either the "Azrael" plot, or when the time "Nightwing" took over Bruce Wayne as Batman- in short, someone will be Batman, will screw up, and Bruce Wayne returns to clean the mess. Seems like things are setup to work that way, in my humble opinion.

What I didn't understand, however, was why it was "important" to "kill" Bruce Wayne and have his funeral. If he survived, why the private graveyard show? I get it, Bruce wanted to humor his friends and closed ones- he thought it was "funny" to not show up after the blast and tell them he was fine. And being the cunning prankster, he shows up in France just to give Alfred a heart attack!
 
Total dissapointment.
Many things happening with out any much weight.
The tension that spanned through the whole film was more from the music that from the story it self.
For me it stayed on one level.... Was expecting some seriouse twist and turns but that never happened.
The biggest let down for me after seeing the trailer was Bane.
The mask and his dialogue just didnt work for me... pulled me right out of it. Very comical but not haha funny more meh .

Catwoman was the bomb....but the rest was stink bumb :huh:...
 
*** SPOILERS ***

It would have made perfect sense from a writing standpoint to kill off Bruce Wayne at the end.
When the film starts, Batman is considdered a villain and Bruce is alive.
When the film ends, Batman is the ultimate hero having given his life for Gotham, and Bruce would be dead.

That way, he would have truly made Batman the symbol of hope at the cost of his life.

It's an ironically written story, just like most of Nolan's films. The way it is now, with the added montage at the end and open ending, is:
When the film starts, Batman is considdered a villain and Bruce is alive but unhappy.
When the film ends, Batman is the ultimate hero having given his life for Gotham, and Bruce is alive and happy.

So basically, he has truly made Batman the symbol of hope at the cost of still being alive but not unhappy anymore.

This is why the end montage "twist" feels pasted on. The story, as written, doesn't deserve a happy ending.

That said, I still think this TDKR is the perfect marriage between Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, that keeps the strongest elements of both films. I wasn't too fond of Batman Begins before, but mostly because The Dark Knight seemed like an entirely different Batman universe with only the cast and crew returning. It wasn't the same Gotham City anymore.
But TDKR puts these two movies in the same universe, and I think it works absolutely great.
I'm not gonna let a short montage at the end ruin my experience, and I kinda liked the setups they were hinting at even if I don't feel the need to see that film.
 
Just don't forget that, in the universe of the story, from the point of view of the people of Gotham, Batman did die. He did become the symbol. It's only that the audience knows Bruce Wayne, who was Batman, is still alive at the end. Now, why exactly Bruce also had to fake his death is a legitimate point of confusion. It's not like the public ever found out Bruce was Batman. The only explanation is he wanted to protect himself and the people he loved from any remnants of the League of Shadows, who apparently do know Batman's real identity. But it remained unexplained.
 
Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb...or can you? :P

batbomb.jpg
 
Saw it yesterday (in english of course) with some hardcore batman fans friends of mine and we were all really disapointed.

Don't know if it's the plot but it was hard to get into the film and, huh, where the hell is Batman throughout the movie ?

And (spoilers) "mention speciale" to Marion Cotillard's death which got a good laugh from the whole audience in the theater, including me ! :grin:

Worse film from Nolan yet, see you in a few years for a restart,
Cheers.
 
Batutta said:
Just don't forget that, in the universe of the story, from the point of view of the people of Gotham, Batman did die. He did become the symbol. It's only that the audience knows Bruce Wayne, who was Batman, is still alive at the end. Now, why exactly Bruce also had to fake his death is a legitimate point of confusion. It's not like the public ever found out Bruce was Batman. The only explanation is he wanted to protect himself and the people he loved from any remnants of the League of Shadows, who apparently do know Batman's real identity. But it remained unexplained.
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You read my take?

(meet me on 7th page.)
 
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