F55: The Crown series

starcentral

starcentral

Veteran
I wasn't aware of this one, season 2 drops December apparently.

DP: Adriano Goldman
Lenses: Old Cooke Panchros rehoused by TLS UK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k15O_eBfUuk

“Netflix requires a 4K workflow, so I started by testing cameras that could provide that. After comparing a few, we felt that by combining the F55 and vintage lenses, plus light diffusion filters, we could achieve a rich, soft and kind of romantic period look. The Sony F55 proved to be very reliable, very light, and easy to work with. The Cooke Panchros deliver a very warm and filmic look. And working together with the art and costume department was key to find a palette and control color saturation — that’s also a very important element of the overall style of ‘The Crown.'”
 
Looks great!
I always feel that period and sci-fi TV can be shot with almost anything, because there is so much going on to achieve "the look" besides the camera.
Of course any big production has lighting, set design, VFX, grading but I guess I'm more critical when it comes to "real/present time" productions,
where I expect a certain look and feel of the image (dominated by what's used most often I guess...)
On the other hand I'd love to see a big budget TV show set in the 80s shot on VHS cameras:)
 
Spartacus said:
Looks great!
I always feel that period and sci-fi TV can be shot with almost anything, because there is so much going on to achieve "the look" besides the camera.
Of course any big production has lighting, set design, VFX, grading but I guess I'm more critical when it comes to "real/present time" productions,
where I expect a certain look and feel of the image (dominated by what's used most often I guess...)
On the other hand I'd love to see a big budget TV show set in the 80s shot on VHS cameras:)
Click to expand...

It would be shot on Alexa or Venice and then made to look like VHS in post over a 4 month period .. :)
 
Thanks for sharing that Dennis. Over on some other forums (not this Sony subforum) I get a little tired sometimes of discussions of higher end cameras as "cinematic", or writing off various cameras as *not* cinematic.

Basically we're living in an amazing time of abundance, with a luxury of choices when it comes to cameras.

*Any* dedicated video camera with interchangeable lens mount and 4K is a top notch choice that can be "cinematic",

As your lighting/grading/composition/movement/filters/lenses/etc will all add up to making a much much greater difference than whatever camera you choose from those options!

If a person is not happy their results are not "cinematic" with such a camera, then very likely the problems lies with themselves! Not the camera body.
 
starcentral said:
I wasn't aware of this one, season 2 drops December apparently.

DP: Adriano Goldman
Lenses: Old Cooke Panchros rehoused by TLS UK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k15O_eBfUuk

“Netflix requires a 4K workflow, so I started by testing cameras that could provide that. After comparing a few, we felt that by combining the F55 and vintage lenses, plus light diffusion filters, we could achieve a rich, soft and kind of romantic period look. The Sony F55 proved to be very reliable, very light, and easy to work with. The Cooke Panchros deliver a very warm and filmic look. And working together with the art and costume department was key to find a palette and control color saturation — that’s also a very important element of the overall style of ‘The Crown.'”
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting indeed. I never knew about this series. I have zero interest for the royal family.

I think this might be the best example of F55 yet. Even better than Vinyl. Some of it still looks like video. Like all the shots with the navy guys. I think it's because of the harsh sun light. A few other video looking shots in there too. There are other shots that just look soft but not necessarily organic or good. But most of the trailer looks pretty good. Mainly the stuff shot inside. Probably because of controlled lighting and heavy use of smoke, filters etc. The reason I kind of like it more than Vinyl is this has a more natural look. Talking about grading. Vinyl is color graded and manipulated to oblivion.

But the shots that look good are clearly the ones that took the most work to get with all the smoke, filters, setting etc. Meanwhile you point an Alexa or F35 to a white wall and pres record and you get mojo. Obviously exaggerating but you get my point. This is really the big point for me at least.

But with this the F55 has come a long way since A Million Ways to Die In The West and those other movies.
 
Spartacus said:
... On the other hand I'd love to see a big budget TV show set in the 80s shot on VHS cameras:)
Click to expand...
Someone will make a fortune selling those VHS LUT's.

In any case, Dennis, do you think people have figured out the F-55 pluses and minuses by now or do you think it's all grade and lighting, i.e., smoke and mirrors? FWIW, I hated everything there was to hate about "Vinyl". This looks much better.

PS. Speaking of period peaces ... err, pieces, "War and Peace" was shot on Alexa XT and a lot of shots and whole sequences looked very video'ish.
 
DLD that's a damn good question. Obviously set design, glass, filtration, smoke, lighting & grading play a huge role. You can get nice stuff with Canon 5D when those things in place in reality. But I still believe there is mojo from Alexa and F35 you don't have in F55. The Venice may change this but we won't know likely until 1-2 years from now.

I think when the budgets are massive, like Sense 8, Vinyl, The Crown, 'Deliver us from Evil' yeah the skilled DP makes a huge difference but in general with bigger budgets you have more experienced people all around working on it. So maybe it boils down to that, experience.
 
DLD said:
Someone will make a fortune selling those VHS LUT's.

In any case, Dennis, do you think people have figured out the F-55 pluses and minuses by now or do you think it's all grade and lighting, i.e., smoke and mirrors? FWIW, I hated everything there was to hate about "Vinyl". This looks much better.

PS. Speaking of period peaces ... err, pieces, "War and Peace" was shot on Alexa XT and a lot of shots and whole sequences looked very video'ish.
Click to expand...

For what it's worth, I thought a few scenes in The Revenant, which was shot on Alexa 65 and Alexa, looked "video-ish". I still think one of the hardest things for digital cinema cameras to deal with is the motion/cadence of water and fire- with water being the tougher of the two, IMO. Even in some of the best shows and movies, I will see a scene with water or fire and it looks like video, because of the motion.

I watched the first season of The Crown and I gave it an A. Also keep in mind that they threw a LOT of money at it. The budget was well over $100 Million(reportedly $13 Million/episode). I believe the BBC had a hand in it also and there was a theatrical screening. It was a 'crown jewel' show... Pun intended.
 
+++1


IronFilm said:
Thanks for sharing that Dennis. Over on some other forums (not this Sony subforum) I get a little tired sometimes of discussions of higher end cameras as "cinematic", or writing off various cameras as *not* cinematic.

Basically we're living in an amazing time of abundance, with a luxury of choices when it comes to cameras.

*Any* dedicated video camera with interchangeable lens mount and 4K is a top notch choice that can be "cinematic",

As your lighting/grading/composition/movement/filters/lenses/etc will all add up to making a much much greater difference than whatever camera you choose from those options!

If a person is not happy their results are not "cinematic" with such a camera, then very likely the problems lies with themselves! Not the camera body.
Click to expand...
 
starcentral said:
DLD that's a damn good question. Obviously set design, glass, filtration, smoke, lighting & grading play a huge role. You can get nice stuff with Canon 5D when those things in place in reality. But I still believe there is mojo from Alexa and F35 you don't have in F55. The Venice may change this but we won't know likely until 1-2 years from now.

I think when the budgets are massive, like Sense 8, Vinyl, The Crown, 'Deliver us from Evil' yeah the skilled DP makes a huge difference but in general with bigger budgets you have more experienced people all around working on it. So maybe it boils down to that, experience.
Click to expand...

Run&Gun said:
For what it's worth, I thought a few scenes in The Revenant, which was shot on Alexa 65 and Alexa, looked "video-ish". I still think one of the hardest things for digital cinema cameras to deal with is the motion/cadence of water and fire- with water being the tougher of the two, IMO. Even in some of the best shows and movies, I will see a scene with water or fire and it looks like video, because of the motion.

I watched the first season of The Crown and I gave it an A. Also keep in mind that they threw a LOT of money at it. The budget was well over $100 Million(reportedly $13 Million/episode). I believe the BBC had a hand in it also and there was a theatrical screening. It was a 'crown jewel' show... Pun intended.
Click to expand...

Unlike yous twos, I ain't got no F55. So, here's my rumination on this subject.

Let's look at the general idea of the post derived "filmic look" from Film Convert and alike. These LUT's change the data in the pipeline to whatever a digitized film copy might look or reasonable facsimile thereof. The "filmic cameras" essentially do the Film Convert work before the data is recorded. In theory, it's not hard to accomplish. if Film Convert can do it with software, so can any major camera manufacturer. Fuji has these built in LUT's available on a $2,000 XT2 and many folks simply love it.


Alexa and Red don't go to these lengths to deliver the in-camera look but sort of/kind of deliver a film proxy ready for grading into a film look.

Does this make sense? At all? 5%? 2.5%?
 
Arri actually has a license package of looks for the Mini and amira:
http://www.arri.com/looklibrary/


DLD said:
Unlike yous twos, I ain't got no F55. So, here's my rumination on this subject.

Let's look at the general idea of the post derived "filmic look" from Film Convert and alike. These LUT's change the data in the pipeline to whatever a digitized film copy might look or reasonable facsimile thereof. The "filmic cameras" essentially do the Film Convert work before the data is recorded. In theory, it's not hard to accomplish. if Film Convert can do it with software, so can any major camera manufacturer. Fuji has these built in LUT's available on a $2,000 XT2 and many folks simply love it.


Alexa and Red don't go to these lengths to deliver the in-camera look but sort of/kind of deliver a film proxy ready for grading into a film look.

Does this make sense? At all? 5%? 2.5%?
Click to expand...
 
DLD said:
Unlike yous twos, I ain't got no F55. So, here's my rumination on this subject.

Let's look at the general idea of the post derived "filmic look" from Film Convert and alike. These LUT's change the data in the pipeline to whatever a digitized film copy might look or reasonable facsimile thereof. The "filmic cameras" essentially do the Film Convert work before the data is recorded. In theory, it's not hard to accomplish. if Film Convert can do it with software, so can any major camera manufacturer. Fuji has these built in LUT's available on a $2,000 XT2 and many folks simply love it.


Alexa and Red don't go to these lengths to deliver the in-camera look but sort of/kind of deliver a film proxy ready for grading into a film look.

Does this make sense? At all? 5%? 2.5%?
Click to expand...

Not a single face in that Fuji demo. Not very useful.
 
I had a chance to shoot stills with the XT-2 earlier this year on a studio shoot. The camera was provided to me by the client over using my Canon gear. They swore there was some big difference in color but I really couldn't see it, and if there was any difference it seemed like the kind of thing you would tweak using the "vibrance" slider in Lightroom or other tweaks like that.

About the video from the XT-2 I haven't watched any until now... This DP in the video says he reached out to fellow DOP's and they all sweared it looked like the Fuji motion picture film they remember ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjZH1JlV8D8
 
DLD said:
of course, so do others. My point was that some form of signal processing is already in the camera that is more likely to achieve the film look than other cameras that look video'ish.



I heard there was this thing called YouTube.

Click to expand...

Well, yeah. If I wanted to just search random videos shot by the camera. My point was, Fuji's official demo, hosted on their official youtube channel for their film simulation built in luts doesn't show any faces. Only landscapes, which is where looking like film or not probably matters the least. ;)

The demo you posted is not for the film simulation luts. It gives no info on which lut was used and is not on Filmfilm's channel. :)
 
starcentral said:
I had a chance to shoot stills with the XT-2 earlier this year on a studio shoot. The camera was provided to me by the client over using my Canon gear. They swore there was some big difference in color but I really couldn't see it, and if there was any difference it seemed like the kind of thing you would tweak using the "vibrance" slider in Lightroom or other tweaks like that.

About the video from the XT-2 I haven't watched any until now... This DP in the video says he reached out to fellow DOP's and they all sweared it looked like the Fuji motion picture film they remember ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjZH1JlV8D8
Click to expand...

I don't know. I don't see film in these demos. I see video. It doesn't look much different than any other DSLR.
 
Sttratos said:
I don't know. I don't see film in these demos. I see video. It doesn't look much different than any other DSLR.
Click to expand...

I don't see it either. It's very crunchy. Does XT-2 even have log? The same producer who forced me to shoot with it earlier this year told me it was coming via firmware or something? and 4K recording was only available through ext recorder.. has any of that changed?
 
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