The birth of the Hi-Fi Videographer?

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Petrus

Well-known member
It seems to me that with the appearance of 5Dmk2 camera (and similar) there has also appeared a group of videographers which resemble a similar group of audio* professionals/hobbyists: Hi-Fi videographers.

By this I mean people who worry about and debate the relative merits of ISO 100 compared to ISO 160, what is "native" speed, and that by tweaking this and that obscure setting you can see a HUGE improvement in the footage.

Content be damned.

And, after all this futile exercise the end result is most likely going through a macig bullet putting in a nice touch of color washout, glow and film-like grain...

Surpricingly often these same people do not know s**t about basic things like optics, audio etc.

*) on the audio side endless wordfights are fought over which AD converter and sample rate is best, and then "colorfull" mic-pres are used, end result manipulated million ways and all detail compressed to death.

Yes, this is a troller...
 
Petrus said:
And, after all this futile exercise the end result is most likely going through a macig bullet putting in a nice touch of color washout, glow and film-like grain...
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....after they went into the garden and shot some flowers and the dog.

Frank
 
Trust me. A small, small minority of people are caring about the video features of these cameras -- most are still in it for the photo stuff. Out of those video people an even small group cares about all the techie stuff. Plenty of people buy these cameras and never change a single setting in the video area.

Let's add to the trolling though:
Shane Hurlbut said that the native ISO of the 5DM2 is 200 ISO. This still bothers me. I thought it was 100. Discuss and prove it please.
 
Petrus said:
It seems to me that with the appearance of 5Dmk2 camera (and similar) there has also appeared a group of videographers which resemble a similar group of audio* professionals/hobbyists: Hi-Fi videographers.

By this I mean people who worry about and debate the relative merits of ISO 100 compared to ISO 160, what is "native" speed, and that by tweaking this and that obscure setting you can see a HUGE improvement in the footage.

Content be damned.

And, after all this futile exercise the end result is most likely going through a macig bullet putting in a nice touch of color washout, glow and film-like grain...

Surpricingly often these same people do not know s**t about basic things like optics, audio etc.

*) on the audio side endless wordfights are fought over which AD converter and sample rate is best, and then "colorfull" mic-pres are used, end result manipulated million ways and all detail compressed to death.

Yes, this is a troller...
Click to expand...

This has always been the case, in almost any profession.


- Mikko
 
Petrus said:
It seems to me that with the appearance of 5Dmk2 camera (and similar) there has also appeared a group of videographers which resemble a similar group of audio* professionals/hobbyists: Hi-Fi videographers.

By this I mean people who worry about and debate the relative merits of ISO 100 compared to ISO 160, what is "native" speed, and that by tweaking this and that obscure setting you can see a HUGE improvement in the footage.

Content be damned.
Click to expand...

You are making a very old and very tired false dichotomy that comes up with every new technology.

You assume that because some people are interested, obsessed even, with small technical aspects that they are not, perhaps cannot, be interested in content.

You are making a simple mistake, as few as these characters are - they exist only on the very fringes of any interest group and in the minds of people like yourself.
 
Petrus said:
It seems to me that with the appearance of 5Dmk2 camera (and similar) there has also appeared a group of videographers which resemble a similar group of audio* professionals/hobbyists: Hi-Fi videographers.

By this I mean people who worry about and debate the relative merits of ISO 100 compared to ISO 160, what is "native" speed, and that by tweaking this and that obscure setting you can see a HUGE improvement in the footage.

Content be damned.

And, after all this futile exercise the end result is most likely going through a macig bullet putting in a nice touch of color washout, glow and film-like grain...

Surpricingly often these same people do not know s**t about basic things like optics, audio etc.

*) on the audio side endless wordfights are fought over which AD converter and sample rate is best, and then "colorfull" mic-pres are used, end result manipulated million ways and all detail compressed to death.

Yes, this is a troller...
Click to expand...


"Content" is the domain of writers, directors, and producers. It's the duty of the DP, Cinematographer, Videographer, Cameraman to know about the tools available and how to use them.

Just sayin'.
 
tfg said:
Trust me. A small, small minority of people are caring about the video features of these cameras -- most are still in it for the photo stuff. Out of those video people an even small group cares about all the techie stuff. Plenty of people buy these cameras and never change a single setting in the video area.

Let's add to the trolling though:
Shane Hurlbut said that the native ISO of the 5DM2 is 200 ISO. This still bothers me. I thought it was 100. Discuss and prove it please.
Click to expand...

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...sg=AFQjCNG7-rl1HlEDi0Yi4Sj2Q_z3a4XsLQ&cad=rja
 
Petrus said:
It seems to me that with the appearance of 5Dmk2 camera (and similar) there has also appeared a group of videographers which resemble a similar group of audio* professionals/hobbyists: Hi-Fi videographers.

By this I mean people who worry about and debate the relative merits of ISO 100 compared to ISO 160, what is "native" speed, and that by tweaking this and that obscure setting you can see a HUGE improvement in the footage.

Content be damned. . . . . .
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Hmmmm . . . . . .




Petrus said:
Abbey Road has ADAM S3A 5.1 system, well below $12k. Need a fair sized sub to go with them, though. S3A has been replaced with a pair of new models (separate vertical & horizontal versions). There are other ADAM models worth considering also.

I have a pair of ADAM S3A:s as my main pair with Genelec 7071A sub, sounds clean and revealing, the only complaint is that sometimes I would like them (S3A) to go louder...
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Petrus said:
All decent mixers have a 0dBVU 1 kHz calibration level signal generator. Turn that on and set the levels on the camera so that the meters show -20 dBFS. After that do not touch the dials on the camera.

If the mixer does not have the 1 kHz tone feature, play pink noise from stereo system and record that with the mixer/camera so that the level is 0 dBVU on mixer, set the camera as above.
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Petrus said:
If you can get Audio Technica ATM-50 for $100 go for it. Over here they cost 160€ and are still worth it (my reference field cans)! Sony MDR-7506 are a good standard, though, never a wrong choice.
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Etc etc, ad nausem.
 
Lee Wilson said:
You are making a very old and very tired false dichotomy that comes up with every new technology.

You assume that because some people are interested, obsessed even, with small technical aspects that they are not, perhaps cannot, be interested in content.

You are making a simple mistake, as few as these characters are - they exist only on the very fringes of any interest group and in the minds of people like yourself.
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+1

The dslr has broadened the amount of people who call themselves a film maker. Many of them are "doing it all" and that means they struggle to balance it all, and have to decide where they want to invest their time. Whereas, there are people who's job is to get the most out of the camera to create an image, and they can focus solely on those aspects.

That said, the OP still has a point about the hi-fi aspect, but it does not mean that it has not already been in video for years. Perhaps with the ability to use better lenses, we are more enthusiastic to push the cameras' potential.

We all have our respective focus, and the more scattered and broad that focus is, the more details get in the way. If it bothers some one to read people obsessing over "minor" details, there could be much better time spent hanging out with story tellers and directors.

A lot of people want to be a film maker, but don't really know why. Or they kid themselves that it is about their innate talent and had nothing to do with the associated fame from big films and actors. They are not good at anything except believing in their talents and being disappointed with everyone else. There are too many of these people and not enough focusing in on one thing and doing that well.

I for one appreciate the findings of technical users, and it is one of the main reasons I frequent this forum. If there was a forum dedicated to only obsessive and technical people, I would be over there too. More so reading than posting.




Does anyone know of some good sites that could help those that are searching for "story telling for motion pictures" or "Making it happen: self motivation techniques" type forums? Seems some get trapped in gear forums and end up speaking up about it, but never get directed to an alternative forum.
 
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James0b57 said:
Seems some get trapped in gear forums and end up speaking up about it, but never get directed to an alternative forum.
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Again, to some extent I see the same fallacy here. Can you name one forum user here (just one will do) who you know to be trapped in 'gear forums' and is unable to, or unwilling to, or otherwise cannot visit an alternative forum (let's suppose for argument's sake by 'alternative' we mean to say a film making forum not focused (or much less focused) on the technical aspects).

Can you name one ?
 
Lee Wilson said:
Again, to some extent I see the same fallacy here. Can you name one forum user here (just one will do) who you know to be trapped in 'gear forums' and is unable to, or unwilling to, or otherwise cannot visit an alternative forum (let's suppose for argument's sake by 'alternative' we mean to say a film making forum not focused (or much less focused) on the technical aspects).

Can you name one ?
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I meant that last sentence to be helpful to readers who might have an interest in finding new forums, not so camera centric. Perhaps some of us could help others get a jump start in finding forums that suite them better, or even direct them to subforums within this one.


Many enough people in and outside of the industry that I meet, get caught up in upgrades and gadgets, despite wanting to be a "story teller" or "film maker". In their preoccupation with having a RED camera someday, they do not develop the necessary skill to make a great narrative in the motion picture medium.

The OP appears to have issue with all the gear and specs talk, and yet here is posting on a forum named after a piece of gear. Perhaps he needs a little help finding forums that suite his needs. Couldn't hurt, anyway.

The original intent of the OP, to me, was more an observation of the "Hi-fi" movement on the digital camera world. And I tend to agree with it. There are people I have met that are solely fascinated with the gadgets and what they are capable of, and just owning them and playing around is fun enough for them. It is not indicative of all the posters or users on this forum or people in the industry.

But Lee, you are right, we all are doing exactly what we want to be doing, even if we don't know that is what we are doing.
 
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The native ISO's of the 5D2 is 160, 320, 640. Test it yourself and see. I as a still photographer am not sure what the future holds for the industry I come from, advertising photography and am not even sure if the name "photographer" will apply much in the future.

A friend at a party introduced me as a director recently. I guess if I have to have a label that would be a good one.
 
There's only one native "iso" (Real ISO is film) and that's the lowest non-modified "iso". In the case of Canons it's 100, for earlier Nikons (Not the latest AFAIK) it is 200. The 5DII goes down to "iso" 50 but that's a modified 100.
Dave
 
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