Thanks you much. I motion for a sticky. Do I hear a second?
PS I now have a un-uber-techy bookmark to share when friends and family call me.
PS I now have a un-uber-techy bookmark to share when friends and family call me.
The $500 Wireless Question, or, "What cheap system should I get?"
- Thread starter kgimedia
- Start date
SJX
Veteran
Thanks. I see you took off the audio technica? So they are no longer a good option? I like audio technica as my shotgun mics are audio technica.
SJX
Veteran
So are these blue tooth or wifi systems much cheaper? Which ones are widely used. Also which Rode? Thanks.
Avoid any Bluetooth systems.
The 2.4GHz systems are still fairly new, so there’s no main contender. Some folks are using the RØDELink Filmmaker kit, some are using the Sennheiser AVX. A few are using the AT System 10. The Aputure Deity is so new that it’s not out yet.
You’re looking at about $400-900 to get into a WiFi system.
As I mentioned in my original version of the post, the AT 1800 systems weren’t the best of the three. In fact, they were the worst of them. Audio Technica used to have a budget wireless - UHF with true diversity - that was one of the best values I’ve seen. It was the U100 system. Those were discontinued a long time ago, and if you can find them they are sure to be in frequenices that aren’t legal in the US. The 1800 series replaced the U100 series and though at first look it seemed to be even better, looks can be deceiving. Better physical design, poor performance with noise floor.
If you want to get used, look at the Sony systems (avoid the UWP-V1, even worse than the newer UWP-D1), or Sennheiser G3 systems which are going for $325-350/channel right now.
jamedia.uk
Well-known member
I agree. Some people have had some success with them but in an urban city/town environment, conference, concert etc or in fact anywhere there are a lot of people I would not use them. Also the situation is only going to get worse.
The space is unlicensed and very crowded.
Unlike the UHF space used by professionals you are not likely to get any co-operation if anyone is trampling over your signals in the wi-fi or blue tooth areas.
Run&Gun
Veteran
I'd also be curious about what would happen with someone attempting to use a BT or WiFi wireless system in a frequency coordinated event/venue that require it for those using wireless(i.e: major sports events).
How would they even begin to deal with it? In a major sports venue, anyone coming in with wireless systems is required to go through official staff to coordinate frequencies so they they don’t interfere with critical operations. But WiFi systems are auto-pairing and there’s not much choosing of channels. How would that be coordinated other than “Sorry, you can’t use that here”?
SJX
Veteran
RØDELink Filmmaker kit has a very interesting price. I found it new for cheaper than used Sony. But taking quick look at photos it seems it's made for DSLRs? It seems it connects to the camera using the amateur headphone type of plug? No XLR?
SJX
Veteran
Ok so if avoid V1 and th D1 is not good either, since you say even worse, what sony to get then used?
Like any of the wireless in this range, including Sennheiser and Sony, it has 3.5mm output. While most of the others are packed with a 3.5mm>XLR adapter cable, you’d have to purchase a separate XLR adapter for the RØDELink Filmmaker.
The D1 is okay. If you’d read the original post, and my later post reviewing the D1 hands-on, you’ll see why I find the Sennheiser to be a better system. There are a few folks on the board who find the Sony UWP-D1 to be more than satisfactory. You also might. The older UWP-V1 system, though, has a higher and more noticeable noise floor. That’s why I’d avoid it.
SJX
Veteran
I read the OP. But your last post threw me off when you said even worse.
But if all are 3.5mm then used D11 better than new Rodelink in your opinion?
Yes? No? Maybe?
You’re comparing UHF to WiFi... very different beasts. Are you using just the one wireless system, or are you integrating this with other systems? Are you working in crowded RF environments, or do you typically work in places where there’s plenty of free transmission spectrum? Do you have time to sit down and tune a UHF system, or are you really looking for something you can simply power on and start using? Does latency matter to you at all, or are you fine having to adjust that in post?
You need to figure out whether a WiFi system will work for you (easy power-up-and-go, more signal stability when in range, comparatively limited working range, limited number of devices that can run at the same time, latency in the signal transmission), or if a traditional UHF system is better for you (requires careful tuning, can be used around multiple wireless systems, signal can be squashed by nearby RF sources). Answer that question, then pick a system.
SJX
Veteran
Kind of depends but I will try to answer.
Just the one.
Don't know about plenty of free transmission. But the work is not in crowded places at all. Most times on the road. Almost always outdoors.
Plug and play is of course easier. But depends how much time to tune UHF system?
Again depends. I want this for quick turn around jobs. So depends how much hassle and slow it is to deal with latency in post. For example I was thinking of a lav to a Zoom recorder and talent can have Zoom on belt or something. But sync in post even with software adds time too.
I never needed wireless or lavs till now. I have always use wired shotgun mics. But now I will be doing something with quicker turn around and more run and gun. So wireless lav I think would make it easier and faster.
Run&Gun
Veteran
Exactly. Something that should probably be considered by those thinking of purchasing such systems.
Not against the Sennheiser G4 ew500, they aren’t. The 50mW transmitters alone win over the Sony, and the MKE-2 lav that’s included is actually a decent stock mic.
brettsherman
Well-known member
I have not used the G4's however I have ditched Sennheiser after 10 years of using the G Series. I found I was getting periodic dropouts. I went with the Sony package and got a dual reciever, single reciever, lavalier and plug-on transmitter for less than it would have cost me to get a single G4 reciever with lavalier (here's the real kicker) and a plug on transmitter with PHANTOM POWER. The Sony's have been super reliable and they are true diversity. Sennheiser sort of uses the audio cable, but I don't think it's the same thing.
In my opinion not enough innovation was done with the G4 - seems like a G3 retread. They should have at least added phantom power to the low-end plug-on transmitter. Even their spec list isn't accurate. According to them - "Powerful plug-on transmitter, easily mounted on any kind of microphone". I suppose that's true if you only want to mount it and not transmit audio. But, no, it doesn't work with most microphones, only dynamic mics. And who uses dynamic mics for video?
Any and every wireless system will have issues from time to time. Lots of things can impact signal transmission and reception. I'm in the middle of an 11-day run on a Discovery series and have Lectro SRC dual receivers in my bag with SMDWB transmitters on the talent. I'm sitting in a warehouse set, about 30' line-of-sight from talent, and have had a couple of dropout issues. Various reasons, including one of the contestants dropping his cell phone into the same pocket as the TX, but sometimes with no immediate explanation.
My experience with the Sony systems is that, while they do offer more kit for less money and they are true diversity, they have a noticeably higher noise floor that pumps with the compander. I was also not impressed with the XLR plug-on transmitter's performance with dynamic mics (very weak signal, more noise). The Sennheiser 100-series XLR plug-on offers plenty of clean gain for dynamic mics.
It's not the same thing. As stated in my original post, it's diversity (two antennae) but not true diversity (two antennae and two independent receiver circuits). The cable that comes with the system isn't very good, and I've replaced them on all my systems with Cable Techniques output cables for Sennheiser. No hard-molded connectors (meaning they can be repaired easily), and a more robust cable (makes for a better antenna).
For the ew112 systems, I'd mostly agree. They did add more finite tuning and work to enhance range and stability, and improved the user controls and LCD screens. However, there were a lot of changes on the series above the 100-series. Previously, there was an SK-2000 ENG kit that cost around $1800, and that's the tier you had to hit to get higher transmitter output and balanced output from the receiver. It also had an annoying, proprietary connection for the lav. The 300-series in G3 had an XLR plug-on with phantom power. With G4, it looks like Sennheiser pretty much took the best ideas from the old 300- and 2000-series and combined them into the G4 500-series ENG kit.
Sennheiser still list the 2000-series as available, but retailers list it as special-order.
Yeah, these kits cost a little more than the Sonys, but I still find the overall sound quality to be better. What I really wish Sennheiser would do is offer a true-diversity, dual-channel receiver unit with a top-readable display (more bag-friendly design).
As to the question of who uses dynamic mics for video: lots of folks who are doing news-style interviews. The standard handheld interview mic for news is dynamic and omnidirectional.
I know there are plenty of people out there who use and love the Sony systems. Personally, I'm not one of them. Also, I really think the better comparison between Sennheiser and Sony is with the ew512 system. Again, higher price, but better features and overall performance.