The $300 Recorder Question, or, "Which cheap audio recorder should I get?"

The $300 Recorder Question, Part II.

The $300 Recorder Question, Part II.

Continued from above.

BAG RECORDERS

Here we enter the standard and, honestly, preferred form factor for location sound recording. Bag recorders come in different shapes and sizes, but they all share the same design principles: a face panel that features a clear display screen, tactile transport and menu navigation controls, and rotary level controls for input sources; flexible inputs and outputs on the left and right side panels; and (ideally) external powering options. This is also the category that has the biggest range of prices and features.

The term “bag recorder” comes from the design fitting easily into a traditional sound bag that places the display and controls facing up toward the operator, keeping the I/O connections down inside the bag for clean cable management. Sound bags allow for storage and organization of mixer/recorder, power supply, wireless receivers, and more that can be easily work with a shoulder strap or harness. For the one-person-band sound department that is booming while also managing everything else, the bag is a standard accessory.

Because there are so many options, from quite inexpensive to top-of-the-line, which recorder to buy comes down to budget, needed number of inputs and outputs, and specialty needs like time code or 32-bit float. Let’s first address the specialty needs: do you need time code, or 32-bit float? Honestly, probably not.

Time code can be helpful, but unless you’re working on a production where post has specifically requested it, it’s not necessarily... necessary. Especially if you’re creating your own content, many NLEs now automatically link separate audio and video files based on the sound. A good, ol’-fashioned dumb slate (clapper) is a great way to keep track of your takes and to be able to locate clear sync marks. Full use of time code requires a smart slate that is jammed to the sound recorder (or to the same TC source that the recorder is using), as well as a camera that can jam to external TC. Additionally, time code sync boxes are an extra expense that are crucial to a stable time-code-based workflow.

32-bit float is also something that isn’t likely needed. It can be helpful, but proper gain staging and level control are still important skills to develop. Managing 32-bit audio is something most post houses aren’t built for, and professional film and TV productions still require 24-bit/48kHz audio. If you’re doing sound design and recording custom sound effects, 32-bit float can be extremely useful. For traditional location sound (dialog), it may be more trouble than it’s worth.

For the $300 price point, there are non-time-code options like the DR-60DmkII and DR-70D from Tascam, and the Marantz PMD-706. These recorders are also designed to be able to mount under a camera, but they do all enjoy physical designs that can drop easily into a small bag.

Above $300 and under $1000 opens up some semi-professional options that are more suited to location sound bag work. Sound Devices offer the MixPre-3 II and the MixPre-6 II, both equipped with time code and 32-bit float options. Their Kashmir pre-amps come with true analog input limiting to prevent clipping without damaging the signal in the process. They offer 3 and 4 XLR inputs, respectively. The Zoom F6 offers 6 XLR inputs, time code, and 32-bit float. The Zoom F8n offers time code and 8 XLR inputs (plus two with a proprietary add-on module), but does not have 32-bit float. Input limiters for both the F6 and F8n are analog/digital hybrid.

An honorable mention goes to the Tascam DR-701D. This is basically the DR-70D, but with time code capabilities. However, it is well-known that the internal time code on this device drifts terribly, so it requires being fed with a constant, external source like a Tentacle Sync or a Betso.

Around the $1500 mark is the MixPre-10 II from Sound Devices. All the features of the MixPre-6 II, but with an additional 4 XLR inputs and more flexible output options. It also adds BNC connectors for time code/word clock in and out. Just up at the $2000 are the Roland R-88 and the Tascam HS-P82, both with time code and 8 XLR inputs. Neither with 32-bit float.

From there, we jump quite a bit in price to get into the high-end multitrack mixer/recorders used on professional sets. Starting around $3000 and going up toward $10,000, these recorders offer much more durable construction, flexible input and output routing, and more redundancy for both power and recording media. Sound Devices launched their 8-series a couple years ago, introducing the 833 successor to the beloved 633, as well as the 888 and the Scorpio. As a side note, there are deals to be found on used 6-series recorders (633, 644, 688) that fall below this price point. Also on the top-end are offerings from Zaxcom, Sonosax, and Nagra. What these recorders don’t have: 32-bit float. It’s just not something that’s used on high-end sets.

Regarding outputs, many bag recorders (especially the higher-end models) offer more than just a stereo output. Flexible outputs with menu-based routing come into play when you need more than just a feed to a camera. Client IFB really needs to have its own custom output mix. If you’re working with a boom op, a monitor return channel needs its own output mix. These typically come in routable auxiliary outputs, often labeled as “Aux” or “X” outputs. Consider these as well when choosing the recorder that’s right for you.

This brings us to the last category, though some of the bag-friendly recorders can also cross into this realm:

CART-BASED RECORDERS

For larger scale productions, we move to the most expensive builds for production sound systems. Cart-based sound work is typically found on narrative sets where a sound mixer is able to sit and focus on the mix while a boom op covers on-set and serves as the location mixer’s eyes and ears close to the camera. Cart-based recorders are built into rolling sound carts that range from simple and slim to elegant and complex with both shore-power and battery distribution, video monitoring, and more.

There are bag-friendly recorders that can be just as much at home when part of a sound cart, simply by adding a mixing control surface. The 833, 888, and Scorpio are compatible with some third-party control surfaces, and Sound Devices also offer their own native mix control surfaces. For budget-friendly solutions, Zoom offer a mixing control surface for the F8n and Sound Devices MixPre series recorders are compatible with several off-the-shelf, USB-based mixing controllers.

Recorders that are suited for cart work, but aren’t bag-friendly, include the Sound Devices 970 and the Aaton Cantar X3. I’d also argue that the Scorpio is much more suited to cart work; yes, it is certainly bag-friendly, but it makes for a very heavy/bulky bag, especially the more wireless receivers are added. Likewise, there is a bag solution for the Cantar X3 but it’s big and, personally, I find it a bit clumsy that way.

There are also carts that are made for sound bags, allowing the user to move quickly between mixing from a cart and run-and-gun bag work. This may or may not include a control surface. But that’s another conversation for another thread.

A NOTE ABOUT DRIFT, SAMPLE RATE, AND TIME CODE

When dealing with double-system sound and non-sync recorders, there is a chance that the sound will drift when put up against the video in post-production. Why? Well, it has to do with each device's internal clock.

Put two devices together that don't share a master clock (this is what "non-sync" means) and set them both to record at 48kHz. One might actually be recording at 47,998Hz (47.998kHz) and the other at 48,024Hz (48.024kHz). When these audio files are placed in the time line of an NLE or a DAW, where they play at an actual 48kHz, one will be playing slightly faster than the other. This can cause problems.

Drift isn't usually a huge deal if each shot or clip is fairly short, so most narrative work isn’t a concern. Longer clips may have noticeable drift over time, impacting documentary interviews and reality TV where sound recording can go uninterrupted for hours. The audio and video will start in sync, but after a few minutes the audio may either lead or fall behind the video. Technology has improved and different clocks seem to be a bit more stable, but for non-sync sound this can still pop up.

Audio depends on sample rate to determine its playback speed, but that doesn’t mean that time code settings cannot have an adverse effect. If your sound recorder has time code and allows setting a time base (frame rate), make absolutely sure that you set it to the same frame rate as the camera. Mismatched frame rates between sound and video files, in many NLEs, can actually cause otherwise stable audio to drift.

DECISIONS, DECISIONS

There's quite a bit to consider if you're looking for a good sound recorder. As always, do your research and read reviews. Are the pre-amps clean? Are the limiters transparent? Is the operating system known to be buggy? After all, this is the device that will be recording literally half of the content of any production you work on.

I'm also a big fan of the idea of "own small and rent big". If you're just starting out, there's absolutely no need to go into crippling debt to build your first sound kit. Freelance work isn't one of those "if you build it, they will come" things. The kit does not get you the work: your networking and self-marketing do. Get a basic kit that you can afford and that covers the little stuff that you may be able to get right off the bat. Indie films, hobby/amateur-level productions, and other non-paying work can be covered with a very basic kit... a boom, maybe a couple of wireless (though not necessary), and a small recorder. Corporate, documentary, and commercial work can often be covered with 4 tracks: a boom and up to three wireless. If the opportunity comes along to take on a bigger project with bigger needs, rent what you need to get the job done. Rental costs are passed on to the client, so it's a win-win.

Once you have regular work coming in that requires a bigger kit, justifies the expense, and will pay it off in a reasonably short amount of time, then it's time to consider upgrading what you have.
 
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Hi am making a short film with a 5d and low budget and was thinking of buying a Sony Pro Walkman WM-D6C for field recordings
for the ambient soundtrack. Dialogue sync won't be an issue as I'll record this on something else.

The sound on the walkman's is really warm and clear-however would it be more advisable to buy something like a zoom h4n-
how do these compare in terms of sound quality? (-: Bebe

I wouldn't recommend going with a cassette-based recorder. It may say "professional" on it, but this opens you up to a myriad of challenges. (Note: this machine has been discontinued for a decade now.) Analog cassette tape is a flaky and unreliable medium that has inconsistent speed, and even though you say sync won't be an issue, I cannot in good conscience tell you that this is a good idea. Plus, what you can get from a digital recorder these days for ambient sound beds rivals what the high-end (read: 4- and 5-figure list price) audio recorders offered 20 years ago. And even with Dolby B and C noise reductions available, the noise floor is going to be noticeable.

If you want a basic, usable recorder, go with the Tascam DR-40. I keep one in my kit and use it often to grab quick sound beds. It's great to have in the pocket of my sound bag... if something happens between takes, it's at the ready to grab a stereo recording with the on-baord mics, and I don't have to worry about my main mixer and recorder.

Personally, I'm not a fan of Zoom even though (or maybe because) I used to have one.
 
I received my Roland R-26 a few days ago. I must say that it's a nice looking unit, the touch screen works great also (it's a resistive touch screen not capacitive, which is good IMHO for field use). The front gain control knobs are also a joy to use. If enibody would like me to do some test please fell free to ask. I have only one boom mic, so there isn't much that I can do:)

I did try how much the batteries last. I did a test with 4 AA Eneloop 2400mAh batteries, recorder one channel with a boom mic. So that's one mic, one phantom power and I also turned on the limiter and hit record. I got a little over 12 hours of recording. Was quite surprised by this, especially because the monitor stays on the whole time while recording...

That's all. If anybody else would want something I'll try to arrange it.
 
Thanks, Sanjin!

I think you may be the first to chip in here as an owner of the R-26. Would love to hear more once you've had a chance to get a couple of real-world projects in the can!
 
I just purchased a Tascam DR-40 and love the sound quality of it. It's good if you use the line features. Doesn't hurt that it's $150 on Amazon (though there was some discount at the time I bought it and actually brought it down to $130 brand new). At that price it was near impossible for me to NOT buy a handy portable recorder
 
Thanks, Sanjin!

I think you may be the first to chip in here as an owner of the R-26. Would love to hear more once you've had a chance to get a couple of real-world projects in the can!

I'm not an audio person myself but I'll try to convey info from my sound producers.

I did however do a test to see if there is any apparent drift. I did a test with an HPX171 in 25p and the r26 at 24bit and 48khz. In one hour I got 1/4 of a frame of drift. I did it by doing a clapper in the beginning of the recording and at the end (was this done ok?).
So this recorder is perfectly usable for doing synced video.
 
I did a test with an HPX171 in 25p and the r26 at 24bit and 48khz. In one hour I got 1/4 of a frame of drift. I did it by doing a clapper in the beginning of the recording and at the end (was this done ok?).
So this recorder is perfectly usable for doing synced video.

Sync marks (slate) at beginning and end give you a great way to detect drift. 1/4 of a frame over one hour is pretty solid. I wouldn't call this "synced" video, however, as it is strictly non-sync unless the camera and recorder are slaved to the same master clock. This is still non-sync, but apparently with a pretty reliable internal clock on the R26.

The bigger test is to see if you can get that same result over repeated takes.
 
The bigger test is to see if you can get that same result over repeated takes.

Oh, really? I didn't know that this could vary... What does it depend upon? Room temperature?:)

I'll do it a couple more times and report back!
 
Sync marks (slate) at beginning and end give you a great way to detect drift. 1/4 of a frame over one hour is pretty solid. I wouldn't call this "synced" video, however, as it is strictly non-sync unless the camera and recorder are slaved to the same master clock. This is still non-sync, but apparently with a pretty reliable internal clock on the R26.

The bigger test is to see if you can get that same result over repeated takes.

Try in varying temperatures as well... from 'early morning cool' to afternoon heat... Unless of course one only shoots in a studio with air conditioning... that works...

While this probably would not cause problems with short takes, if one were to record a seminar, or other 'long' event, things could happen during that time to affect drift, including drift being non-constant...
 
I have a Roland R26 and it's a nice recorder. Better preamps than the Marantz PMD670, 660 and 661 and everything that I've tried below that in the more affordable categories. Definitely better than anything Zoom or Tascam makes in that price range. And it works well with dynamic mics like the Senn MD46 and RE50. It does have an inconvenient form factor that's pretty much relegated to hand held use--though, I suppose, you could lay it sideways and face up in a bag. But I can operate the levels with one hand. I just carry it upside down on a shoulder strap or mount it on a stand since it has a standard tripod socket. The big negative is that the recorder doesn't have locking XLR plugs. Still working with it.
 
Oh, really? I didn't know that this could vary... What does it depend upon? Room temperature?:)

I'll do it a couple more times and report back!

Word clocks are not 100% accurate, also, with sound traveling at aprox 1ft/ms if you clapped the slate 6-7ft from your mic, thats 1/4 frame off already.
 
Anyone have a good recommendation for an audio recorder under $300 using inboard mics to record forest sounds. The four criteria mentioned earlier is important to me.

1- What is the actual noise floor ?

2- How long do the batteries last ?

3- If the recorder has built-in mics, what do they sound like ?

4- How noisy are the mic pre-amps ?

So far the Zoom H4n and Sony PCM-10M look favorable but I am not experienced with portable recorders.
 
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So far the Zoom H4n and Sony PCM-10M look favorable but I am not experienced with portable recorders.

Zoom H4n
- Noise-floor = -66 dB RMS
- Battery life is very short with 48v Phantom power enabled ( less than 1 hour ), up to 10 hours with stamina feature enabled ( phantom power OFF )
- Built-in mics are "muddy" in the mid-range compared to other recorders
- Larger compared to the Olympus or Sony recorders

Sony PCM-M10
- Noise-floor = -75 dB RMS when the pre-amp is below half maximum gain, and gets VERY noisy at maximum gain ( -49 dB RMS )
- Battery life is quite good ( 30+ hours )
- Built-in mics are omni-directional so good when recording ambient sound
- Compact size

Olympus LS-12
- Noise-floor = -75 dB RMS
- Battery life is very good ( 50+ hours )
- Built-in mics sound good ( more directional than I expected )
- The LS-14 model has a third mic for low-frequency sound capture ( no idea how useful this is )
- Compact size

Tascam DR-40
- Noise-floor = -79 dB RMS when the pre-amp is below half maximum gain, and gets quite noisy at maximum gain ( -51 dB RMS )
- Battery life with Phantom power OFF is good ( 20+ hours ), with Phantom ON it's 1-3 hours depending on the mics you are powering
- Built-in mics sound good
- Larger compared to the Olympus or Sony recorders
 
I would look at the Olympus LS-100 if you can.

It will give you more flexibility for the future as it also has XLR mic. inputs.
 
Second system drift: DR-40 vs. FR2-LE

Second system drift: DR-40 vs. FR2-LE

I just wrapped up post on a video of a live event and had some interesting experiences with running two separate recorders, so I thought I'd share for those interested in drift issues with non-sync recorders. I know that the comparison isn't perfect: a bag-friendly recorder in a slightly higher price bracket vs. a hand-held in a lower price bracket. However, I keep both of these together in a compact kit that I use on DSLR shoots and indie productions. Plus, it's worth considering what the extra investment may offer if trying to decide between a hand-held and something a little better. YMMV.

First, the setup: This was a challenging project (and very much a favor to friends). I was pulled in a couple weeks before the event and given very little information beforehand. Most of what I knew came in the week of (Tuesday/Wednesday before a Saturday shoot). Camera rental was lined up (without my input) and I was pretty much committed to work with whatever was there when I arrived. The cameras were mismatched: a Panasonic AC130 and a Canon XA10. I happened to have my little Panasonic TM900 in the car, so I set it up as a third camera (this saved my duff in editing). I was able to get the images on all three at least ballparked for color and exposure, and I shot in 24p as that was the only common, progressive frame rate between the three cameras. The TM900 was the limiting factor (60i, 60p, or 24p over 60i), and it had to be reverse telecined before editing.

The XA10 did not have the handle or XLR module attached, and the AC130 did not come with so much as an external shotgun mic.

All three cameras ran built-in mics only. Because there was absolutely no audio support considered in the rental, and since I had my ENG kit with me (always prepared), I set up two recorders. There were two sound engineers on duty in the Performing Arts Center: FOH and monitors. They were incredibly helpful, and rigged a board feed for me that not only was balanced and calibrated, but mixed as a separate board feed for hearing assistance and remote monitors. It was, in the end, a very clean and VERY useful feed. Kudos to those guys. This feed went into the FR2-LE. I also set my DR-40 near the center camera position in the balcony, on a stand, to capture the room as a fill to mix under the board feed in post.

Both recorders were set to 24/48 WAV.

So, to reacap: three mismatched cameras (non-sync), and two separate audio recorders (non-sync). I had volunteers on two of the cameras, and ran the third myself.

The cameras and recorders ran uninterrupted for about 90 minutes, except for the TM900. The other two were on shore power, but the TM900 was on battery and had to go down at one point for a battery change. We also paused for about 15 minutes, then rolled on the last 10 minutes.

Enter post-production. I found my sync marks and dropped in the three cameras and the audio from both recorders (FCP7). Across the entire first set of clips (90 minutes), not a bit of issue with the FR2-LE. It was spot on the whole way through, as were both the rental cameras (the TM900 was fine, too, but the battery change interrupted the 1:1 comparison). The DR-40 drifted quite a bit after about 8:00. I found this intriguing, more that the Fostex stayed so well-timed with the cameras, as I had expected drift from both machines.

Maybe the temperature, humidity, barometric pressure, lunar gravitational pull, and constellations were all perfectly aligned that day. The FR2-LE didn't let me down.

Don't get me wrong: I still love the DR-40 as a hand-held field recorder and have taken it out on many projects for grab-and-go FX (especially ambient tracks), and it is still a solid device. Just wanted to share my experience as this is the first time I have put those two side-by-side for extended recording. In the realm of budget-conscious recorders both are solid performers, but for longer recording as a dual-system machine, I'll stay with the Fostex.
 
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I've read this thread four or five times over the years. It's an amazing resource.

It's now the end of April 2014, and I'm looking for the proverbial $300 USD recorder myself. Specifically, what I want is something with XLRs that will take balanced line-out inputs from a MixPre-D (to bypass the recorder's mic pre-amps). That's my big requirement. Can't compromise on this; I'm likely going to have some long runs of XLR cable between me and the recorder, and line level signals are preferable for long runs like this.

Beyond that, it would be nice if it recorded to SDHC (just a personal preference). It would be nice to also have a headphone return so I can have confidence that what I'm hearing is what's actually recorded (I'm pretty much assuming that any recorder worth considering will have this). Finally, I would like 24/48 wav files for dialog, and 24/96 for music (again, should be pretty standard).

What I want seems to be the Sony PCM-D50, but with XLRs and line-level inputs. Which seems to leave me staring directly at the Tascam DR-100MkII. Is this still, in 2014, my "biggest bang for the buck"? Is there anything else that will take XLRs and balanced line-level inputs in the sub $500 USD category? If there's discontinued equipment I should be looking for on the used market, please let me know that too.

I was hoping that NAB 2014 would bring some new recorders, but if there were any I didn't learn of them. Anyone?
 
It's now the end of April 2014, and I'm looking for the proverbial $300 USD recorder myself

It would be helpful if you could explain exactly what type of set-up you're planning, as there are many different options that will fulfill your requirements.

I use a MixPre-D with the Tape-Out going to a Sony PCM-M10 tucked into the front of my mixer bag, and also run XLR LINE outs to a passive BeachTeck adapter that plugs into my camera. This way I end up with two usable recordings, with the M10 being my first choice.

For LINE level recordings a Sony PCM-M10 or PCM-D50 (with a passive XLR-to-3.5mm adapter), Tascam DR-40, DR-60 or DR-100 recorders would all fit the bill. The Olympus LS-12 or LS-14 (with XLR-t0-3.5mm adapter) or LS-100 recorders would also work quite well.
 
It would be helpful if you could explain exactly what type of set-up you're planning, as there are many different options that will fulfill your requirements.

Huh? I thought I did just that. I said "Specifically, what I want is something with XLRs that will take balanced line-out inputs from a MixPre-D (to bypass the recorder's mic pre-amps). That's my big requirement."

With that one requirement, I seem to loose the vast majority of the $300 USD recorders, "Which seems to leave me staring directly at the Tascam DR-100MkII." The Olympus LS-100 has XLRs as well, but for considerably more money. But I'm posting this on the $300 recorder question sticky thread, so I'd rather be talking about a $300 recorder. My knowledge in this area (and let's be real -- all areas ;-) is limited, which is why I'm asking the group.
 
With that one requirement, I seem to loose the vast majority of the $300 USD recorders, "Which seems to leave me staring directly at the Tascam DR-100MkII." The Olympus LS-100 has XLRs as well, but for considerably more money

...And the Tascam DR-40 and DR-60, both priced at $200 or less.
 
...And the Tascam DR-40...

(sound of hand smacking forehead) Holy cats! I've looked at the DR-40 half a dozen times over the last few years, but I always thought it was mic-level inputs. But the B&H website shows it as +4dBu line-in. Cool. Think that's probably the direction I'm heading now.
 
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