C200: Tell me why; C200 or AU-EVA1

Liam Hall said:
No chance. High end TVCs are Arri/Red/Film.
Click to expand...

The thread is about sub 10k cameras - to me for quality work the c200 raw is the best capture available at that price.

As it happens I'd be surprised if it didn't stand next I all the top cameras (did you see G boyles tests)
 
OP here. Thanks for the great replies. I didn't elaborate on my own needs since I wanted to know what was important to others.

G.
 
morgan_moore said:
Don't want to derrail thread completely but trust me I've tried every af lens going and in comparison to my proper manual lens they are just horrible :)
Click to expand...
If it's the feel of the focus and focus throw you're talking about, I find my 18-80 to be quite difficult to manually focus; keep in mind it's an AF lens too and has no hard stops. I actually prefer my 24-105 for manual focusing.

Focusing from 1m to 5m, for the 24-105 you have to turn the focus ring 3cm in circumference. For the 18-80 from 1m to 5m, you have to turn the focus ring 2.7cm in circumference. Pretty close amount, perhaps they are the same; I used a tape measure to measure this just now. So from that I gather the 18-80 actually has a slightly shorter focus throw than the 24-105. Often with the 18-80 I find myself over shooting or undershooting when manually focusing; I don't know if there's a delay or what it is, but something just doesn't feel quite right. Maybe I'm just more used to focusing with the 24-105. The 24-105 also is more dampened than the 18-80, I feel in a slightly beneficial way; the 24-70 has very little dampening and I hate it for manually focusing. Same with the 85mm L-series prime, which is probably the least dampened L-series lens from what I recall (I don't own it). Of course with the C300 Mark II and C200 these lenses all have AF so poor manual focus isn't necessarily the end of the world depending on how you work.

It was interesting to find that the Canon CN-e primes have different levels of dampening, with one in particular (I forget which, maybe the 35) being rather stiff in a bad way; I would have thought they'd be pretty similar across the board. The 15.5-47 and 30-105 both have a nice level of dampening, though make a bit of noise while turning the focus.



morgan_moore said:
The thread is about sub 10k cameras - to me for quality work the c200 raw is the best capture available at that price.

As it happens I'd be surprised if it didn't stand next I all the top cameras (did you see G boyles tests)
Click to expand...

Perhaps to rephrase what Liam said/meant then, "High end TVCs don't use sub 10k cameras (as A-cam on a regular basis)."

With only one SDI or HDMI out at a time, no rec or monitor out differentiation, you can't send both a clean feed and a feed with displays out to different sources (clean for client monitor, display info for on-camera monitor, perhaps 1st AC monitor, etc.), not to mention needing an SDI splitter. I believe the Alexa XT has two rec out SDI and two monitor out SDI. On my C300 Mark II, it's pretty common that I'll have HDMI going to a Parralinx, SDI 1 Mon going to either my Steadicam monitor or a SmallHD on camera, and SDI 2 Rec going out to the audio guy so he can monitor audio, in addition to his SDI for timecode, or SDI 2 going to a wired SmallHD for the director.

One of the many reasons the C200 wouldn't be used by high end TV.
 
Last edited:
Yep I know what big shoots use.

I was just saying that the cams (in the thread title) all have pros and cons and ultimate quality of the c200 raw file is probably a pro of the c200 vs the Eva for pure image quality and post workability

--

Yep Eric I like my glass for manaully focussing. And yep all your descriptions sound about right :)
 
Eric Coughlin said:
Perhaps to rephrase what Liam said/meant then, "High end TVCs don't use sub 10k cameras (as A-cam on a regular basis)."

With only one SDI or HDMI out at a time, no rec or monitor out differentiation, you can't send both a clean feed and a feed with displays out to different sources (clean for client monitor, display info for on-camera monitor, perhaps 1st AC monitor, etc.), not to mention needing an SDI splitter. I believe the Alexa XT has two rec out SDI and two monitor out SDI. On my C300 Mark II, it's pretty common that I'll have HDMI going to a Parralinx, SDI 1 Mon going to either my Steadicam monitor or a SmallHD on camera, and SDI 2 Rec going out to the audio guy so he can monitor audio, in addition to his SDI for timecode, or SDI 2 going to a wired SmallHD for the director.

One of the many reasons the C200 wouldn't be used by high end TV.
Click to expand...

The Alexa Mini also has "only" two SDI (1.5g and 3G) outs, for more options you also have to use the Splitting Box MkII.
And the C200'S one HDMI and one SDI is enough for another on-board monitor and a wireless video feed.
While I agree, the C200 will probably not be used on high end TVCs, I definitely see it being used in high end corporate (where I live pretty much all Amira and some RED, mid-range being FS7 and C300MII).
With big brands/clients setups are pretty similar to TVCs.
One other thing to remember is the Canon Browser Remote, which allows a preview (and adjustments if the screen isn't locked) via Wi-Fi.
Most clients will already know iPads being used as preview monitors from photo shoots, so monitoring with the C200 won't be much of a problem I think :)
 
Eric Coughlin said:
If it's the feel of the focus and focus throw you're talking about, I find my 18-80 to be quite difficult to manually focus; keep in mind it's an AF lens too and has no hard stops. I actually prefer my 24-105 for manual focusing.

Focusing from 1m to 5m, for the 24-105 you have to turn the focus ring 3cm in circumference. For the 18-80 from 1m to 5m, you have to turn the focus ring 2.7cm in circumference. Pretty close amount, perhaps they are the same; I used a tape measure to measure this just now. So from that I gather the 18-80 actually has a slightly shorter focus throw than the 24-105. Often with the 18-80 I find myself over shooting or undershooting when manually focusing; I don't know if there's a delay or what it is, but something just doesn't feel quite right. Maybe I'm just more used to focusing with the 24-105. The 24-105 also is more dampened than the 18-80, I feel in a slightly beneficial way; the 24-70 has very little dampening and I hate it for manually focusing. Same with the 85mm L-series prime, which is probably the least dampened L-series lens from what I recall (I don't own it). Of course with the C300 Mark II and C200 these lenses all have AF so poor manual focus isn't necessarily the end of the world depending on how you work.

It was interesting to find that the Canon CN-e primes have different levels of dampening, with one in particular (I forget which, maybe the 35) being rather stiff in a bad way; I would have thought they'd be pretty similar across the board. The 15.5-47 and 30-105 both have a nice level of dampening, though make a bit of noise while turning the focus.





Perhaps to rephrase what Liam said/meant then, "High end TVCs don't use sub 10k cameras (as A-cam on a regular basis)."

With only one SDI or HDMI out at a time, no rec or monitor out differentiation, you can't send both a clean feed and a feed with displays out to different sources (clean for client monitor, display info for on-camera monitor, perhaps 1st AC monitor, etc.), not to mention needing an SDI splitter. I believe the Alexa XT has two rec out SDI and two monitor out SDI. On my C300 Mark II, it's pretty common that I'll have HDMI going to a Parralinx, SDI 1 Mon going to either my Steadicam monitor or a SmallHD on camera, and SDI 2 Rec going out to the audio guy so he can monitor audio, in addition to his SDI for timecode, or SDI 2 going to a wired SmallHD for the director.

One of the many reasons the C200 wouldn't be used by high end TV.
Click to expand...

Re: 85L dampening. The 85L still lens focus is 'fly-by-wire'. The focus ring is just a rotary encoder and not physically coupled to the focus elements in any way.

Re: CN-E primes. My 24 is strange. It has a "spot" that is much stiffer than the rest of the focus range. I'm actually thinking about sending it in for service, because of that coupled with it not seeming to be quite as tack-sharp/having that spot of "perfect focus" that I remember it(all of them) having. It's been out on rentals and there is some slight tell-tale signs on a few of the teeth that it may have been handled roughly.

And one of my big gripes with Canon has always been the lack of, what I consider, proper and thourough monitoring/video output options.
 
puredrifting said:
Not really, you can only use one at a time.
Click to expand...

Didn't know that. Can this be seen in the specs somewhere? As your already use the C200 you know for sure, but was this somehow "advertised" by Canon
or just an "oh right, we didn't find it worth mentioning"...?
Clearly one of the deliberate feature cripplings, but not a deal breaker for me.
Either loop through a monitor recorder or this https://www.woodencamera.com/c-box-converter-v-mount-p/176300.htm
(Not defending Canon here, but for higher end production camera get rigged out anyways).
 
Run&Gun said:
And one of my big gripes with Canon has always been the lack of, what I consider, proper and thourough monitoring/video output options.
Click to expand...
The C300 Mark II has better outs than the Arri Amira, Alexa Mini, and Varicam LT.

C300 Mark II has 2 SDI out (Rec and Mon) and one HDMI Out (which you can also choose if display info goes out or not). C300 Mark I has just one SDI out and one HDMI out.

Amira and MIni have two SDI out and no HDMI out. When using the Amira I was trying to find a way to turn the display out on or off, and see if the two SDIs could be separated in that regard (so one sends it out and the other sends a clean feed), but I don't recall having found a way to do that, so I'm not sure you can, which would be quite a pain.

Varicam LT has two SDI out and no HDMI out, so same as the Arris.

I see your F55 has four SDI outs and an HDMI. That is nice. You're spoiled.



Spartacus said:
Didn't know that. Can this be seen in the specs somewhere? As your already use the C200 you know for sure, but was this somehow "advertised" by Canon
or just an "oh right, we didn't find it worth mentioning"...?
Clearly one of the deliberate feature cripplings, but not a deal breaker for me.
Either loop through a monitor recorder or this https://www.woodencamera.com/c-box-converter-v-mount-p/176300.htm
(Not defending Canon here, but for higher end production camera get rigged out anyways).
Click to expand...
With the Wooden camera splitter (or any splitter) you're still stuck with either a clean feed going out to everything or a display out feed going out to everything, which again is quite a pain.
 
Last edited:
And I was used to having at least three SDI's(2 clean, 1 Mon, but all are adjustable to make them clean or dirty) plus native VF on my P2 Vari's, before.

It's no secret that I can't stand HDMI on professional equipment, but I have had to resort to it on my original C300 before.
 
While setting up the C300 for a studio shoot a few days ago, deciding if we'd send an HMDI or SDI cable to client monitor, I told the person setting up the cables that we may as well go SDI, jokingly saying, "That way when someone trips, instead of just popping right out like an HDMI, it'll bring the whole camera down instead." It seems to me a tight locked connector isn't always the best way to go.
 
Since it's being discussed here, I'll point out that the EVA1 has an SDI and an HDMI output. Both can show 4K, both can show menus/heads up display, and both can show V-Log or Rec709. And each of those parameters can be adjusted separately. For instance you could set the SDI to 4K, clean image, V-Log (good for a recorder) and the HDMI to HD, menus, Rec709 (good for an onboard monitor or EVF). Or other combinations, whatever makes sense.
 
Mitch
When recording log does Eva offer 709 output in all frame rates (unlike the fs7)
Can 709 on/off be assigned to a user button?
When recording log does the wfm relate to the recorded log or the displayed 709?
 
spartacus said:
didn't know that. Can this be seen in the specs somewhere? As your already use the c200 you know for sure, but was this somehow "advertised" by canon
or just an "oh right, we didn't find it worth mentioning"...?
Clearly one of the deliberate feature cripplings, but not a deal breaker for me.
Either loop through a monitor recorder or this https://www.woodencamera.com/c-box-converter-v-mount-p/176300.htm
(not defending canon here, but for higher end production camera get rigged out anyways).
Click to expand...

As computer nerds say, RTFM
Page 142

RTFM C200 Outputs.jpg
 
morgan_moore said:
Mitch
When recording log does Eva offer 709 output in all frame rates (unlike the fs7)
Can 709 on/off be assigned to a user button?
When recording log does the wfm relate to the recorded log or the displayed 709?
Click to expand...

When recording in V-Log, Rec709 is available for monitoring at all frame rates. It can individually be switched from Log to 709 on the LCD, SDI and HDMI. These functions can be assigned to User Buttons. It's great to be able to toggle between Log & 709 on one feed but have the feed to the client remain undisturbed. The waveform relates to what is being recorded, in this case V-Log.
 
Mitch Gross said:
When recording in V-Log, Rec709 is available for monitoring at all frame rates. It can individually be switched from Log to 709 on the LCD, SDI and HDMI. These functions can be assigned to User Buttons. It's great to be able to toggle between Log & 709 on one feed but have the feed to the client remain undisturbed. The waveform relates to what is being recorded, in this case V-Log.
Click to expand...

I think the fundamental difference is, the C200 was built with protecting the C300 MKII and MKIII in mind. The EVA 1 was built with re-invigorating the entire cinema camera product line up in mind and is far above the GH5 and pretty far below the Varicam LT so there is little to no stepping on the adjacent models. Features like this prove what Mitch has purported all along, that they put everything into the camera they possibly could, given the design parameters of size, weight, battery power, recording media. I am very excited to see it and use it. The C200 is a good camera, the EVA 1 still has the potential to be a great camera.
 
With regards to official sample footage from EVA. Will there be a set date when all sample videos become available or is this up to each geographical region to produce demo footage and set a date?

Is inventory built up to serve expected demand or will there be cameras trickled out over time?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top