Tascam HD-P2 Sync DVX-100B

tbuelna

tbuelna

Active member
I have read all over the audio forum and I haven't found one place that has step by step instructions for newbies. Is there anyone that can elaborate on this. On the side of the HD-P2 there is an XLR jack that is labeled timecode. Does that have to connect to the camera? Or is that for a mixer? I have enabled timecode on the Tascam and Camera, but how do I sync them? I would apperciate anyone that can shed some light on my question. Thanks.
 
I'm pretty sure the best you can do is get close... by engaging free-run on both the DVX-B and HD-P2 at the same time... as in, you have your hands on both switches or else have a partner help you out... and you say, "NOW!" and then hit 'em both... you won't be perfectly in sync, but you'll be as close as you can get until you have a battery change. Then repeat at that time.

The HD-P2 doesn't have TC out... and frankly the DVX-B doesn't either... you can do a little sync trick through the firewire of the DVX to another DVX or HVX, etc. but I don't think you can make that trick work for the HD-P2 since it wants an actual TC feed via bnc or xlr.

This is STILL a tremendous help though... since you can set the internal clock of the HD-P2 at the same EXACT frame rate as the DVX... and then using free-run you maintain the same reference throughout the day (between battery changes). You'll still want to use a clapper for a visual reference however.
 
Yep, Matt is right - the DVX100 does not have any true timecode sync capabilities (nor does the HVX). For the HD-P2, the timecode xlr is to jam (sync) with an external timecode generator. I use a timecode slate as my master, jam the HD-P2 and you're ready to go. I have used the trick Matt talks about - starting the timecode on the DVX at the same time as my slate (the slate always starts at 00:58:30.00, so you set the camera to that timecode and press go on the camera at the same time you turn the slate on).

The only way I know to get timecode into the DVX is to do a wireless/wired send of timecode and record it on one of the audio tracks. Some editing software is able to sync audio files to that recorded timecode. But, you're adding a whole new level of complexity on the set - I recommend just using a slate and mark each shot.

Hope this helps.

Phil
 
You can't jam sync the HD-P2 with a DvX-100. They are both unable to jam sync.
Another trick, in case you don't have the Tc slate is filming the Tc display, on your HD-P2, is not going to be sync but you have a visual reference how far apart you are, and is very simple to link audio and picture tracks seeing this reference.
The all system of hitting the boom mic. in front of the lens is going to work for you too.
Sending Tc wireless to one of the audio tracks is a very good system, that would be my first choice.
 
ptalsky said:
The only way I know to get timecode into the DVX is to do a wireless/wired send of timecode and record it on one of the audio tracks. Some editing software is able to sync audio files to that recorded timecode. But, you're adding a whole new level of complexity on the set - I recommend just using a slate and mark each shot.
Click to expand...

Definately slate each shot but I would politely disagree that you are adding complexity, either on the set or in post. Other then setting the level on the TC signal and keeping the batteries in the w/l fresh, recording TC to the audio channel is simple and fast. Once in post we are talking four clicks of the mouse to produce matching TC (in Avid; don't know the procedure in FCP). And that is four clicks to sync every shot in your bin. A far less complex situation then to hand sync each shot.

But, again, you should still slate every shot for all the times Murphy's Law kicks in.

Cheers
 
Wabbit, what I meant by complexity is that now extra wired/wireless needs to be maintained. I have done this numerous times, but I have all the equipment necessary to do this already in my bag of tricks. And, more and more I'm fighting with DP's that don't want anything connected to the camera, wired or wireless.

Phil
 
rafaeldelauz said:
You can't jam sync the HD-P2 with a DvX-100. They are both unable to jam sync..
Click to expand...

As I understand it this is not actually correct. The P2 does Jam sync, it just can't out put TC or Generate on it's own. Don't know about the DVX but it sounds like it will also Jam but not send.

Jam syncing (if folks are unclear on the term) is setting a TC generator by "jamming" in TC from another source.
If both can Jam then the simplest way to coordinate TC is to jam both from your master source, say a TC slate or some other mobile TC generator.
 
Actually, Scott, it can "generate" on its own, but just can't send it to anything else, due to the lack of TC out. (Just being technical here. :-)

Phil
 
ptalsky said:
Actually, Scott, it can "generate" on its own, but just can't send it to anything else, due to the lack of TC out. (Just being technical here. :-)

Phil
Click to expand...

Yes my slip. You can't jam a device that can't generate... duh
Good catch.

Off topic....
Phil,
I just did 5 days recording the Dali Lama with Boom Recorder and the Alesis 12 channel. What a joy!
Used the 671 for field work and one two channel board feed. The upside of dual power got highlighted in the middle of the public talk when the power cord to the 671 got kicked out and it went to batt then back to AC with out skipping a beat.
And now I have two blessed systems :~)
 
Wow, Scott, sounds like a great gig. And yep, the batteries are always in my HD-P2.

That's why I was trying out that battery backup system on the shoot you visited. Too bad it didn't work out. I think I'm going to add a plain old UPS to my cart to cover myself for the old kicking the power cord out scenario.

Phil
 
Although it's not timecode, you can sync the HD-P2 to the camera's video signal by connecting the composite out to the BNC connector on the HD-P2. Not that helpful for short takes but avoids drift on long recordings.

-Dan
 
TeleDan said:
Although it's not timecode, you can sync the HD-P2 to the camera's video signal by connecting the composite out to the BNC connector on the HD-P2. Not that helpful for short takes but avoids drift on long recordings.

-Dan
Click to expand...
Hi Dan
Can you explain a little more about this? I'm not sure I understood. What kind of signal is going from the camera to the HD-P2?
 
An external LTC (time code) generator fed to both the Tascam and a line in on the DVX/HVX would do the trick. The Tascam would be fed the camera's TC signal later and chase lock. It would be much simpler if the Tascam outputted LTC, but it doesn't.

What I plan to do is to use a MOTU 828MkII (a MOTU 8Pre would also be a good choice for use without a mixer) and a G4 laptop with MOTU Digital Performer (or AudioDesk, which is included with all their interfaces) to record TC-based multitrack audio, and simultaneously record the MOTU's matching LTC out onto one line-in channel of the HVX. Feeding the HVX's LTC track back to the MOTU box later should enable DP/AudioDesk to chase-lock within a tiny fraction of a frame.

I haven't actually vetted it with my own rig yet, but I've done similar setups in audio-only work for many years. It should work perfectly.
 
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Phil,
It had it's up side, but 5 20 hr days and a lot of confusion were the down side. Not well planned (the filming not HHDL) so a lot of guessing and CYA. But HHDL is a great guy and his energy helps a lot on this kind of thing.
 
Ted Spencer said:
An external LTC (time code) generator fed to both the Tascam and a line in on the DVX/HVX would do the trick. The Tascam would be fed the camera's TC signal later and chase lock. It would be much simpler if the Tascam outputted LTC, but it doesn't.

What I plan to do is to use a MOTU 828MkII (a MOTU 8Pre would also be a good choice for use without a mixer) and a G4 laptop with MOTU Digital Performer (or AudioDesk, which is included with all their interfaces) to record TC-based multitrack audio, and simultaneously record the MOTU's matching LTC out onto one line-in channel of the HVX. Feeding the HVX's LTC track back to the MOTU box later should enable DP/AudioDesk to chase-lock within a tiny fraction of a frame.

I haven't actually vetted it with my own rig yet, but I've done similar setups in audio-only work for many years. It should work perfectly.
Click to expand...
Hi Ted
What is the advantage of this set up instead of sending TC wireless to one of the audio tracks in the camera, and link everything in the editing suite?
 
rafaeldelauz said:
Hi Ted
What is the advantage of this set up instead of sending TC wireless to one of the audio tracks in the camera, and link everything in the editing suite?
Click to expand...

That's pretty much what I described, except the wireless part, which is a great idea as long as it can be relied upon to transmit LTC to the camera faultlessly. Wireless interference, dropouts etc. could make transferrring later a major PITA.

The MOTU part is basically just a multichannel (8, 16, or even 24 track) audio hard disk recorder. It also would have the advantage though, of creating BWAV files that would contain embedded TC information that could be helpful even without lockup.
 
I would highly recommend Boom Recorder over the other software mentioned for location recording. It is very tailored to the task.
First there is a lot of metadata that BR puts in that the others don't then there is the fact that you can change those fields during recording and the updated info will be added, you don't have to write notes or change file names after the fact. It has a pre record (and post record) buffer that can be set to what ever you like. And it does very nice Sound Reports. And it is VERY solid.
 
Ted Spencer said:
That's pretty much what I described, except the wireless part, which is a great idea as long as it can be relied upon to transmit LTC to the camera faultlessly. Wireless interference, dropouts etc. could make transferrring later a major PITA.
Click to expand...

Only speaking for Avid MC, don't know how FCP does it, but as long as you have TC at the start of camera roll then Avid will fill out the remaining TC regardless of w/l drops or interference. Not 100% bulletproof but far better then standard w/l audio to camera. I have never had a single TC issue using this method to coordinate multicam shoots with prosumer cameras.

Cheers
 
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