Tascam DR10-L VS Zoom F1

[puredrifting]

Thanks guys. I am going to get out my Countryman B6 and try that. I will be using the Tascam as a backup for when there is dropout with a wireless. So trying to keep it reasonable price wise. James

You should order the Tascam Dr-10CH from CVP in the UK instead, it'll run you a few more bucks but it's worth it. It has an input that can accept an output from your wireless system to make a backup recording. Tascam can't sell this model in the U.S. because of Zaxcom's patent but for wireless backup, this a lot better than running the 10-DL and having to buy and rig an extra lav.
https://cvp.com/product/tascam_dr-10ch

 

[Rick R]

. The 801/802 seem to be more popular than the smaller TL-40 from what I can tell.

For sure PD, the TL-40 has a flatter response than the 801/802, so usage is more limited for dialog, however it's an end-fire design which is sometimes needed and it's relatively small (4mm diameter). It does have a lower max SPL than the 800s. A nice mic though.

.I have the Countryman B6 and it's a good little mic but it does have relatively high cable handling noise .

My older B6s seem to have a stiffer cable than the newer ones. different or 'aged' maybe. It also somewhat prone to air turbulence, so if its in open air (mounted on glasses for instance) some wind protection is usually needed.
I have not seen or can I find the Mickey Mic which was about the same size as the B6 and allegedly sounded decent for less $.
The Lectro 150/152 has a striking reassemble to the Voice Technologies 500 series. The 150/152 is decent and they used to be frequently on eBay for less than $100. However 99.9% had the TA-5 connector so a plug change would be needed. FWIW, hen the DR-10 was intially released there was a model with a TA-5 throughput, but that are no longer available, not even in the EU.

 

[firehawk]

I have several Tascam DR10 with the Sennheiser connection and pass through. I use them for events and like them a lot. Small space is a plus.
I didn't realize there was an update for -12. Thanks.

Which OST lav would you recommend? For weddings, and also for corporate interviews? I'd like to step up from the kit lavs.

 

[puredrifting]

I have several Tascam DR10 with the Sennheiser connection and pass through. I use them for events and like them a lot. Small space is a plus.
I didn't realize there was an update for -12. Thanks.

Which OST lav would you recommend? For weddings, and also for corporate interviews? I'd like to step up from the kit lavs.

I actually just ordered two of the OST 801s today. I need the high freq bump as I exclusively now only mount mics using the Rycote Overcover system. I no longer use tie clips, vampire clips or any other mounts for lavs. The Overcovers have proven themselves to be quick, easy, they really stick and don't fall and using the fur overcover on clothing or skin results in NO rubbing sounds at all. You lose a little of the highs though from the fur, so I ordered the 801s. If I was mounting externally though, I would get the 802s or the TL-40. I will probably pick up a TL-40 later, just to compare it but I love my Trams and the OSTs are basically just Tram/Sonotrims but cost a lot less. I have to say though, I have had so much unusable audio from lavs for decades and the Rycote Overcovers mitigate all of that BS. If you've never used them, I highly recommend ordering a pack and trying them, it'll change the way to record lavs.

BTW, if you do weddings, the OSTs are available in White and Tan. Sweet! and the Tascam DR-10Ls are availabe in white too! Oh yeah and the Overcovers are available in White, Gray and Black fur too. They're all looking out for you wedding people!

 

[firehawk]

Thank you very much. I'm going to look into your good advice and get some

 

[robfilms]

I actually just ordered two of the OST 801s today. I need the high freq bump as I exclusively now only mount mics using the Rycote Overcover system. I no longer use tie clips, vampire clips or any other mounts for lavs. The Overcovers have proven themselves to be quick, easy, they really stick and don't fall and using the fur overcover on clothing or skin results in NO rubbing sounds at all. You lose a little of the highs though from the fur, so I ordered the 801s. If I was mounting externally though, I would get the 802s or the TL-40. I will probably pick up a TL-40 later, just to compare it but I love my Trams and the OSTs are basically just Tram/Sonotrims but cost a lot less. I have to say though, I have had so much unusable audio from lavs for decades and the Rycote Overcovers mitigate all of that BS. If you've never used them, I highly recommend ordering a pack and trying them, it'll change the way to record lavs.

BTW, if you do weddings, the OSTs are available in White and Tan. Sweet! and the Tascam DR-10Ls are availabe in white too! Oh yeah and the Overcovers are available in White, Gray and Black fur too. They're all looking out for you wedding people!

dan-

thank you for the OST sharing.

but now you have me interested in the Rycote Overcover setup.

i watched a short rycote yt vid.

do you the full furry all of the time?

i welcome any thoughts, experiences and even pix (hint hint!) that you care to share.

thumbs up.

rob
smalltalk productions/nyc

 

[KarlSutton]

How often do the fur covers get used more than once?

 

[puredrifting]

dan-

thank you for the OST sharing.

but now you have me interested in the Rycote Overcover setup.

i watched a short rycote yt vid.

do you the full furry all of the time?

i welcome any thoughts, experiences and even pix (hint hint!) that you care to share.

thumbs up.

rob
smalltalk productions/nyc

Yes, using the furry is the key to eliminating the rubbing of the mic against skin or clothing. I don't have any pictures but it's very simple and easy to rig. You peel off the paper from the teardrop-shaped adhesive discs, place your lav directly onto the dosc, then place a furry cover over the disc, press it down to make sure it adheres. You then remove the backing paper from the other side of the teardrop shaped adhesive disc and press that either onto your talent's skin or I usually press it onto the inside of their shirt/blouse, it's more comfortable than them having to have the adhesive on their skin. It stays in place all day unless they do something crazy like yank the lav cable. No fuss, no muss. The only downside I have encountered was that the adhesive on the disc is pretty strong and last time, it peeled the paint off of the cheap mic that comes with the Tascam DR-10L. No biggie, I just used some Sharpie to re-black it and I am replacing that cheap mic with the new OSTs I ordered.

The disc is like a soft foam that has really strong adhesive on it. It's pliable and sticks to clothing really nicely, leaving no residue. Whoever thought these up is a genius. They make all of the clips, vampires, and even those Silicon lav holders seem kind of dumb IMHO and I have been placing lavs on talent for more than two decades so I have tried all of the tricks, triangles of Gaffer tape, wig tape, vampires, hair mics, etc. It's the combo of the disc and the furry that is genius. The fur is going to cut some highs so you use an OST 801 or Sonotrim or other mic with a high freq bump to compensate.

 

[puredrifting]

How often do the fur covers get used more than once?

I have two I have used for over a year. You want to be careful and deliberate when removing the adhesive disc from the furry and it'll keep going. But if it gets thrashed, no biggie, each kit comes with six furries and thirty adhesive discs, both are an expendable. I'm cheap though so it's fun to see how long you can keep one going. This is one of those "smack your forehead" pieces of gear, you think to yourself, "Wow, I've been doing it wrong for years, I should have been using these". The added bonus is you can also shoot in high wind and it radically reduces any wind noise or buffeting too. Win-win.

 

[Tom Roper]

In Tom's post. I suspect he just made a mistake. But there's the interesting feature of transferring the configuration to other DR-10 devices via infrared, so maybe there is something like time code hidden somewhere?

Timecode is just embedded in there when you set time and date. It syncs on my Resolve multi-cam timeline. It is set for 24 bit 48 khz mono.

Edit: Just checked specs on website, WAV is BWF format. That's your timecode. You don't have a way of syncing is all, so sync everything (or rather set the internal clock), cameras/recorders to your cell phone and that gets all the devices in the ballpark within a second or so. (Free running timecode)

 

[firehawk]

Thank you very much! I'm getting some

 

[aram]

Puredrifting, what do you do about cable noise? I have had cable noise mess with my sound before. I was told to make a loop and stick that to the talent. How do you approach that when you are sticking to the clothes? Do you make a loop and stick it to the clothes too?

 

[Alex H.]

Timecode is just embedded in there when you set time and date. It syncs on my Resolve multi-cam timeline. It is set for 24 bit 48 khz mono.

Edit: Just checked specs on website, WAV is BWF format. That's your timecode.

That isn’t time code. That’s a time of day stamp, which your NLE will use to create a time code value at whatever your project time base is using. But it’s only stamped HH:MM:SS, no frames.

 

[Alex H.]

I was told to make a loop and stick that to the talent. How do you approach that when you are sticking to the clothes? Do you make a loop and stick it to the clothes too?

Wherever you mount the mic, that’s the surface from which you need to decouple the cable to avoid noise. If the mic is adhered to skin, adhere the relief loop to skin. If the mic is adhered to a shirt, adhere the loop to the shirt.

 

[Tom Roper]

That isn’t time code. That’s a time of day stamp, which your NLE will use to create a time code value at whatever your project time base is using. But it’s only stamped HH:MM:SS, no frames.

BWAV lets the NLE sync up to the video footage within a second or two. That matters in weddings; the groom could be mic'd up and recording for 4 hours. Getting the recorded audio quickly matched to the speaker's lips is what's important to me, and BWAV is a timesaver.

 

[puredrifting]

Or just use a lav that doesn't have cable noise! I don't hear it on the Røde mics, the cheapo mics that come with the DR-10L. I'll report back on the OSTs when they arrive. As I said, the Countryman B6, lots of cable noise, at least on my 15 year old copy. My Trams, no cable noise. If I had to deal with it, I would do what Alex recommends but the best idea is to just use a mic that doesn't exhibit that characteristic.

 

[Alex H.]

Or just use a lav that doesn't have cable noise! I don't hear it on the Røde mics, the cheapo mics that come with the DR-10L. I'll report back on the OSTs when they arrive. As I said, the Countryman B6, lots of cable noise, at least on my 15 year old copy. My Trams, no cable noise. If I had to deal with it, I would do what Alex recommends but the best idea is to just use a mic that doesn't exhibit that characteristic.

Mic selection is always a compromise of some sort because there’s no magic wrench that fits every problem. But, as price goes up, compromise does go down just a bit.

The B6 is a great mic when you need something that sounds good and is incredibly easy to hide, especially in plain sight. The compromise? The small capsule and super-thin cable are more susceptible to wind and handling noise, and there’s a slightly higher self-noise than other lavs. You also lose just a little bit of low end with the tiny capsule.

The B3 is a great mic, too... less handling noise, less self noise. Still a little more sensitive to wind, but a larger capsule. It’s still easy to hide, and actually costs much less than the B6. Also sacrifices a little low end, though not quite as much. Both the B3 and B6 are also water resistent.

The Sanken COS-11D is awesome. Easy to hide, though not as easy as a B6. Better low-end for a richer, fuller sound. One of the best-sounding lavs out there. It is more expensive. There have been some folks complaining of cable noise, but proper decoupling is a good idea no matter which lav you use.

And if you really want to get fancy, look at DPA. The 4060 is great, and the 4071 can isolate background noise like nobody’s business. But now we’re talking $$$ for a lav. Mo’ money, less problems.

The OST lavs that I’ve used weren’t bad, but I personally found them to sound just a little thinner than I prefer with a lav. Definitely good value for the price.

Thing is, the mic to audio is like the lens to video/film. It’s the first stop in the signal chain, and the image can only be as good as the glass in front. It can certainly get worse after that, but it cannot get better. So when it comes to a small budget, you just have to figure out how to get the best mic you can for what you want to spend, and to figure out where you’re willing to compromise.

 

[puredrifting]

Good feedback on the OSTs, I will do some side by side comparisons with my Trams and Sonotrim, I am curious how they compare.

 

[IronFilm]

The Tascam "looks" more field functional but have tested neither. Thx.

The DR10L is definitely more compact, a key feature in a bodypack.

And the DR10L also has dual track recording for a safety level, also very very handy for anything you can't monitor