Tascam DR10-L VS Zoom F1
- Thread starter klk
- Start date
I have the tascam and I like it a lot (specially with the newer firmware), however, it has a bit of self noise and at 48KHz 24bit I find that RX does not do as good a job cleaning the noise as when working with 96KHz. If you are mixing with music and atmos it may not be a problem, but it has made me wonder about the zoom.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
I did a shoot last week with my two Tascam DR10-Ls on talent all day. I was pleasantly surprised how usable the audio was from a sub $200.00 recorder. It's not going to sound like a Sound Devices but it sounds okay. The stock mics are hollow sounding, I am replacing them with OSTs. I think at the level we are talking about here, between the Tascam and Zoom, the mic used is more important than the inhereht sound of the recorder's pre-amps. I would use a better quality mic with either to get optimum performance. Also, if you want to spend a bit more money, order the DR-10CS version from CVP in the UK, it'll end up about $40.00 more expensive but you get an input so you can actually run a Sennheiser or Lectro wireless directly into the recorder for a backup recording. Tascam can't sell the 10C in the U.S because of patent issues but there isn't anything to stop a non-US dealer from selling you one.
The Zoom F1 has a big problem for weddings that you might not expect on first notice, more on that later.
The DR10L sensitivity is used with the HI+ setting. We always mic the groom's lapel, and it's sensitive enough to easily record the bride and the officiant during the vows, but when the couple is introduced as Mr. and Mrs, the eruption of applause will overload the input. So there are two areas where the DR10L excels over the F1; only the DR10L records a backup -6db safety track, and the other thing I alluded to, only about 40% of groom's pants have belt loops for a belt, or even pockets. The Zoom F1 has slots for attaching to a belt. The groom's belt if there is one, has to come off to slide the F1 on. That's a hassle that wastes time right before the ceremony when the pressure is on. The Tascam DR10L has a spring clip that can go over the pants and doesn't require a belt for attachment. The 3.5mm TRS connector has a threaded locknut, so the connection isn't pulled out, and a "hold" position that locks out the wearer from accidentally shutting off the recording. If the battery runs down it closes the file before shutting down. It has timecode for sync. Those are small details that show when it comes to understanding the reliability needed for weddings, Tascam gets it.
It always seemed to me, that Zoom was designed by musicians for musicians, but they miss some of the finer points for other applications.
The DR10L sensitivity is used with the HI+ setting. We always mic the groom's lapel, and it's sensitive enough to easily record the bride and the officiant during the vows, but when the couple is introduced as Mr. and Mrs, the eruption of applause will overload the input. So there are two areas where the DR10L excels over the F1; only the DR10L records a backup -6db safety track, and the other thing I alluded to, only about 40% of groom's pants have belt loops for a belt, or even pockets. The Zoom F1 has slots for attaching to a belt. The groom's belt if there is one, has to come off to slide the F1 on. That's a hassle that wastes time right before the ceremony when the pressure is on. The Tascam DR10L has a spring clip that can go over the pants and doesn't require a belt for attachment. The 3.5mm TRS connector has a threaded locknut, so the connection isn't pulled out, and a "hold" position that locks out the wearer from accidentally shutting off the recording. If the battery runs down it closes the file before shutting down. It has timecode for sync. Those are small details that show when it comes to understanding the reliability needed for weddings, Tascam gets it.
It always seemed to me, that Zoom was designed by musicians for musicians, but they miss some of the finer points for other applications.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
I'm looking at the Tascam DR-10L firmware release .pdf, it says nothing about timecode. Where did you read anything about timecode?
I agree about the -12db safety track although I usually use -6dB but thaty's just for dialog. If you are around live music, race cars, guns going off, etc. -12dB is much better.
The new little level meters are cool too. These things are really handy when you don't have a sound mixer to set up and monitor wireless, which with documentary shooting, is more often than not for us.
The stock mics sound mediocre, usable. For another $95.00, you can add OST lavs which sound leagues better. Bonus for me, I can also use the OSTs on my Røde Video Wireless.
In Tom's post. I suspect he just made a mistake. But there's the interesting feature of transferring the configuration to other DR-10 devices via infrared, so maybe there is something like time code hidden somewhere?
puredrifting
Major Contributor
I've gone through all 21 of the menu items, I don't see anything about TC?
TC would be icing no? I know, the Lectro has it---
As for mounting I do have some elastic waist and leg bands with pockets for transmitters. I don't do events, but have started getting more multi-cam shoots in live locations with a lot of RF. Starting to supply audio kit and personnel as part of the service-lots to learn.
As for mounting I do have some elastic waist and leg bands with pockets for transmitters. I don't do events, but have started getting more multi-cam shoots in live locations with a lot of RF. Starting to supply audio kit and personnel as part of the service-lots to learn.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
FWIW, the little belt clip the Tascams come with is pretty tight, at least when they are new. I had them clipped to some of our women talent who were just wearing leggings, no belt, no thick fabric to grab onto and they stayed in place and didn't fall off. They are a bit of a PITA to turn on and off when the talent wanted to use the bathroom, but it's good to see that talent isn't going to accidentally start or stop them from recording, it takes a very deliberate push of the little sliding button to start or stop them.
KarlSutton
Well-known member
Have any of the Tascam users noticed drift on longer than 30 minute recordings? I had a challenge syncing audio on a shoot where I had my G3 going straight to camera with the Tascam, it seemed like the audio would be phase tight at the start & drift a little as it went on.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
I've never used mine for events, we are doing typically 1-4 minute takes on our documentary lately. It probably will drift at least a frame or two but it will depend on your camera just as much as the Tascam.
jredmond108
Member
Dan exactly which model of the lav mics do you recommend? Thanks, James
Rick R
Veteran
Budget?
My 2 cents: Most sound pros have Sanken COS-11Ds (among others), though many of my colleagues are adding DPAs these days. The Countryman lavs sound good for less $ than the above, as does the OSTs (Oscar Soundtech) for even less.. The RØDE is decent but the MiCon adaptor/connectors are known to break. The Countryman B6 is the smallest with a 2.5mm diameter capsule and fishing line size cable.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
I agree with Rick says generally but to me, it makes little financial sense to use a $500.00 Sanken lav on a $189.00 Tascam recorder, unless you happen to already have said lav laying around and use it for other things as well. It'll sound great but then you are at close to $600.00 to $700.00 per unit, you could buy pretty nice wireless setups for that money? The Oscar Sound Tech lavs are by far the best bang for the buck on the market, under $100.00 and IMHO sound equivalent to mics that cost 2-4 times as much. The 801/802 seem to be more popular than the smaller TL-40 from what I can tell. I have the Countryman B6 and it's a good little mic but it does have relatively high cable handling noise (microphonics) when compared to my Trams or other lavs I have used, it wouldn't be my first choice for a lot of movement.
Not sure if they still make Mickey Mics, checked pro sound and couldn't find them any more. Also lectrosonics 150/152 are low cost option. In the rarified dpa air the 6060 should be much more available now and are only slightly bigger than the b6 but at a hefty price.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
I think expensive lavs like the DPAs and COS-11s are fine if you are a pro sound mixer or have money to burn. But they don't sound a LOT better than some of the more affordable lavs, especially when being used with mediocre camera mic pre-amps.
It's the same reason I have the Mix Pre 3 and the Audix SCX1 HC. I care about sound, but I'm not a freelance pro sound mixer. If I was, I would buy the Schoeps CMC 641 and CMIT5U and a SD 633 instead.
It's the same reason I have the Mix Pre 3 and the Audix SCX1 HC. I care about sound, but I'm not a freelance pro sound mixer. If I was, I would buy the Schoeps CMC 641 and CMIT5U and a SD 633 instead.
jredmond108
Member
Thanks guys. I am going to get out my Countryman B6 and try that. I will be using the Tascam as a backup for when there is dropout with a wireless. So trying to keep it reasonable price wise. James