Tascam DR-70D current opinions

J

j1clark@ucsd.edu

Veteran
I happen to be looking to upgrade some of my audio equipment. While I could probably use some sort of shotgun mic, I'm thinking of upgrading the recording device.

I've been looking at the Tascam DR70D and it seems to have 4 XLR imputs, as well as front panel adjustment knobs. I did search the forum, and one of the complaints about the adjustment knobs is 'noise' when adjusting, so perhaps this would not be good for dynamically setting levels.

The other issue is the preamp for mic input. When looking at some of the preamp options, it seems that their price is pretty high, for 'just a preamp' and perhaps some LED level indicators.

The question there is for about $2-300 would some preamp + an old Zoom H4 be 'better' than the DR70D?

The mic I have is the Oktava MK012 with the hyper capsule, and when I've used it into my more 'non-mobile' setup, using a M-Audio Fast Track Pro(*) it seems to deliver for what I need... just for the mobile situation, the H4 is not really great.

*I could probably setup a 'board' to stabilize the M-Audio + recording device, and use some sort of USB 'power' pack to power the M-Audio and go with 'line' input to the recording device.

Some suggestions in the $2-300 range would be appreciated.
 
I do SFX more than production sound so... But I rarely adjust sound IN a take. Since I do a lot of post I personally don't want the production mixer to do a lot of level riding. Back when everything was analog and generations really mattered a LOT more than they do now I can see where riding would be an asset but varying levels make Noise reduction a real PITA so I would rather have consistent levels that were not optimum that a mixer trying to find the optimum level during a take.

One of my higher end portable Mic Pres adjusts levels in steps. This is an all analog device that has a step switch as the level control. Never really a problem plus you don't get any accidental level changes because something rubbed against a knob.

The 70D is bag friendly, the H4 is not. That would be a killer for me. I have a 40D but I use it to collect sounds using it's built in mics 99.9999% of the time. I have another recorder paired with a MixPre for when I'm using the Oktava's.

So that is my experience. What works best for you will depend on what you do, not what I do, so YMWV.
 
I am a long-time recording studio veteran so I have pretty high standards, and I have not found anything that does all that the DR-70D does at that price point. It's my main recorder right now.

That noise on the knobs is commonly referred to as "zipper noise" and it is present in MOST digital recording devices under $1,000. What you're hearing if you listen VERY closely is the audio gain/volume being raised in little tiny steps by a digital controller. And no, you'd almost never hear that during a take unless you made a LARGE volume change DURING the take - which indicates you've already got a problem on your hands either from the talent, or from operator error.

Also - when you want to feed the stereo output of the DR-70 into a DSLR or other camera with a MINI-stereo input, then you use this SESCOM Attenuating Cable. Trust us, it's a common requirement for recorder-to-DSLR connections. ***Set the DR-70 LINE output to HIGH*** and then use the SESCOM connector to lower the volume back down so it won't be too loud for the camera audio/mic input.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._PCDM50_LN2MIC_PCDM50_Line_to_Microphone.html
 
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I have bought and used the DR-70D very soon after it came out. I also have the DR-60D. If I could redo my purchases, I would buy neither of these, instead, I would buy the DR-60Dmkii. Here's why: while the DR-70D has obviously 4 xlr inputs compared to the DR-60D, and supposedly slightly superior preamps, it has some significant usability regressions. Compared to the 60D, the 70D has actually less individual channel control, and also fewer physical controls (knobs and buttons); f.ex. the 60D has a dedicated phantom power control, whereas in the 70D it is buried in the menu. Significantly, the DR-70D seems to have some problems in QC and design - for example, you need to use a SESCOM cable if you don't want to have noise in the 3.5mm OUT; furthermore, there seem to be a rash of reports of serious sound problems with multiple SD cards that are random and unpredictable (see here for some reports). Meanwhile, the 60D has its own hardware issues with many units xlr inputs, further, in my experience, the 60D is barely adequate with the amount of gain it can give to mics. Now, in the interest of full disclosure, I have never had any card issues with the 70D or xlr input problems with the 60D, but it doesn't give you peace of mind to know that either can randomly fail as so many have reported. This is where the DR-60Dmkii (revision of the original 60D) comes in - it fixes the xlr input issues, it gets more gain (on par with the 70D), it has attenuated the pots 'zipper' effect compared to the 60D (and on the same level as the 70D), and actually has a stronger headphone amp than the 70D. It is also cheaper than the 70D, and can be had for as little as $179 as I've seen recently on B&H. Now, the 70D has inbuilt omni mics and is more baggable, while the 60Dmkii has no mics but is also somewhat baggable (I do it), and there are bags designed specifically for the 60D (and mkii). All in all, unless you really need the extra two xlr inputs of the 70D, I think the 60Dmkii is both a better deal and a more useful piece of gear. Now, if you just really want to step up above the 60Dmkii, IMHO it would not be the 70D, but the significantly more expensive 701D (although we should wait for more user feedback).
 
OldCorpse said:
I have bought and used the DR-70D very soon after it came out. I also have the DR-60D. If I could redo my purchases, I would buy neither of these, instead, I would buy the DR-60Dmkii. Here's why: while the DR-70D has obviously 4 xlr inputs compared to the DR-60D, and supposedly slightly superior preamps, it has some significant usability regressions. Compared to the 60D, the 70D has actually less individual channel control, and also fewer physical controls (knobs and buttons); f.ex. the 60D has a dedicated phantom power control, whereas in the 70D it is buried in the menu. Significantly, the DR-70D seems to have some problems in QC and design - for example, you need to use a SESCOM cable if you don't want to have noise in the 3.5mm OUT; furthermore, there seem to be a rash of reports of serious sound problems with multiple SD cards that are random and unpredictable (see here for some reports). Meanwhile, the 60D has its own hardware issues with many units xlr inputs, further, in my experience, the 60D is barely adequate with the amount of gain it can give to mics. Now, in the interest of full disclosure, I have never had any card issues with the 70D or xlr input problems with the 60D, but it doesn't give you peace of mind to know that either can randomly fail as so many have reported. This is where the DR-60Dmkii (revision of the original 60D) comes in - it fixes the xlr input issues, it gets more gain (on par with the 70D), it has attenuated the pots 'zipper' effect compared to the 60D (and on the same level as the 70D), and actually has a stronger headphone amp than the 70D. It is also cheaper than the 70D, and can be had for as little as $179 as I've seen recently on B&H. Now, the 70D has inbuilt omni mics and is more baggable, while the 60Dmkii has no mics but is also somewhat baggable (I do it), and there are bags designed specifically for the 60D (and mkii). All in all, unless you really need the extra two xlr inputs of the 70D, I think the 60Dmkii is both a better deal and a more useful piece of gear. Now, if you just really want to step up above the 60Dmkii, IMHO it would not be the 70D, but the significantly more expensive 701D (although we should wait for more user feedback).
Click to expand...

I did look at the 60D, and saw that there was a MKII version. At the moment the greatest number of tracks I've had to record was last year with 2 on wireless lavs. Since I really only have 1 mic for dialog, having 4 XLR inputs may be 'overkill' at the moment, but I was thinking if I did expand to having more mics, 4 would be 'enough'.

But if the 60K MKII is 'better', I don't have an immediate need for more than two.

The other issue was the preamps, and getting a stand alone preamp and using the H4 with 'line in' levels. But it seemed like the several preamps that people have mentioned here, for example the MixPre-D mentioned above, are more $$ than something like the recorders that I'm looking at...
 
Ditto to what Noiz2 said, how well it works for you will depend on what you use it for.

I've been getting into field nature recording, so low noise is a must. The H4N was so abysmally noisy I ebayed it in a week. (Plus the exposed mics on the end are just waiting to get broken off.) I upgraded to a Roland R-26, which I've been loving; it picks up the faintest sounds in the woods no problem.

Since getting the DR-70D, I've been fairly impressed - particularly considering the price.

  • The noise seems to be very low, comparable to the Roland, which is impressive.
  • 4 XLRs, with separate gain knobs, is very nice -- I'll be playing with 4-mic rigs soon.
  • It's a nice form factor -- with the Roland, it hangs well on a shoulder strap, but you're constantly picking it up to see the display.

Dislikes:

  • The display is tiny, and the level bars very poorly marked, so it's hard to see what level I'm at. I've been consistently under-recording because of this. (The Roland has a great display.)
  • It's a little buggy -- sometimes it starts and tells me Phantom power is on, when it's not. I have to turn phantom off and on in teh menus to get the mic working. (Firmware 1.12) (Seems to happen when you start with a blank SD card)
  • The knobs are small for my big fingers, but then again the whole device is small, so they couldn't really help that.

Overall, for the price, I like it.
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
I did look at the 60D, and saw that there was a MKII version.
Click to expand...

As I understand it (again coming from a field recording perspective), the older Tascams had quite noisy pre-amps, including the original DR-60D. The 60D mkII and the 70D have new pre-amps, and are much quieter. These devices are distinguished by the red handles.

BTW I haven't tried the 70D's camera out, so I can't comment on it.
 
I've had no problems with my DR-70D once I obtained the Sescom cable to fix the 3.5mm OUT noise problem. I agree that there is nothing better at this price when it comes to preamps, though you might want to add a FetHead inline XLR preamp ( about $100 ) if you're using mics with a weak signal output. If it's in your budget you will get better sound by using a Sound Devices MixPre in front of the DR-70D, even an older/cheaper used MixPre would be a good fit for the DR-70D.

As far as memory card problems go, it's almost always been a card quality problem more than anything else. I use good quality cards ( 32GB / 64GB / 128GB SanDisk and Lexar premium cards ) and haven't had a single card problem over the past 5 years.
 
Battery life on the Tascam isn't great: recording from my AT BP4025 mic, on phantom power, with just the two inputs enabled, at 48kHz / 24 bit, I got 3 hours 38 minutes from a fresh set of Eneloops.

On the Roland R-26, same mic, phantom power, same record settings and level, same batteries, I got 6 hours 31 minutes. This is despite having the display lit the whole time (which the Tascam doesn't do, and is quite handy).

So I guess I know which recorder I'll use for drop-and-recover...

BTW both recorders cut the files at 2GB (just over 2 hours). Understandable on the Roland, which records to SDHC, odd on the Tascam. No problem really though. The biggest problem is that the time indicators on both recorders showed the time since the most recent split, not the total record time, which seems like a bug.
 
Battery life on the Tascams if famously poor, but I never just rely on batteries anyway. I use the USB power feature - there are tons and tons of battery power packs at all sorts of price points that deliver power for days even on the Tascams - with this option, there really is no reason why battery life ought to be a big problem... of course, if you don't want to have the additional powerpack as another piece of gear to carry around, that's understandable, but for most situations I think there is no reason not to use it.
 
OldCorpse said:
Battery life on the Tascams if famously poor, but I never just rely on batteries anyway. I use the USB power feature - there are tons and tons of battery power packs at all sorts of price points that deliver power for days even on the Tascams - with this option, there really is no reason why battery life ought to be a big problem... of course, if you don't want to have the additional powerpack as another piece of gear to carry around, that's understandable, but for most situations I think there is no reason not to use it.
Click to expand...

+1 - get a USB battery from Amazon for $25-$35. Power all day, maybe a few days. The AAs just don't cut it at all, even strong rechargeables.
 
Michael Carter said:
+1 - get a USB battery from Amazon for $25-$35.
Click to expand...

Thanks, that seems like the way to go.

But I've just reproduced the problem that got me on the whole battery thing: I was doing a test with 4 mics on the Tascam, and it died pretty quick. (I'm working towards using a central XY mic plus 2 cardioid wing mics for a wide sound source.)

At first I thought it was bad batteries, but I just re-tested, and here it is:

DR-70D recording AT BP4025 (stereo) plus 2x Studio Projects C4, phantom power -- 11 freakin' minutes!!!!

WTF??? 2 mics: 3.5 hours; 4 mics: 11 minutes? Something badly wrong there. I tested the C4s on the Roland, and the batteries lasted 5 hours (almost as long as with the AT), so it's not the mics.

So yes, an external batt pack, but with 4 mics at that rate of discharge, it will need to be a BIG one.
 
Hmm. That sounds serious. I never ran into this, because I've never run that many mics at once for any length of time. The way I use it, is to use the USB battery pack but ALSO put in fresh batteries, because the DR-70D works such that if the USB power becomes exhausted, it switches seamlessly to the internal batteries without stopping or affecting any recording you might be doing. I use very high capacity powerpacks (25K mAh), of which I always have a couple on me. But given that rate of power use, it sounds unsustainable in the use scenarios you described. I wonder if that's an issue just with your unit or a flaw in all DR-70Ds, because if it's the latter, that's a serious problem.
 
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