Talent versus 'mud, jello and banding'

Car3o said:
hehe, then you haven't been around long enough buddy. i've probably at least 10 threads just to tutorials from the d90, to 35mm adapters to premiere. when, i get my adapter, i'm sure i'll post some more helpful posts about the gh1. if you can't handle a little sarcasm i have a money jar for every time i make someone cry. it's a little full at the moment, but there's still some room. insert sarcasm icon here.
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I can take a bit of sarcasm buddy, but it does get a little boring after a while.

Car3o on why a ISO 3200 is handy in video mode:
"so you can brag to all your buddies."

On Talent versus mud / banding:
'yawn..."

On 30p to 24p theory:
"Ben, not everyone views things the same way you do. No point in trying to convince me of something you see and I don't. Cool?"

After numerous pages of Low Light Streaks - Is my camera faulty?
"the conclusion is inconclusive."

On the It is not the codec, it is the onboard computer! thread:
"it's like a soap opera in here"

Yes it is Car3o. Keep up the good work and we'll be on Jeremy Kyle before long (that's the British version of Jerry Springer, if you're wondering)
 
pointing out the obvious is sometimes really useful. like, repost all the helpful ones now and i'll reward you with showing up to that show. there's no denying i'm a sarcastic ass. i look at it as if i were balancing out the equation.
 
commanderspike is to the gh1 as johncab was to the d90.
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LOL. Oh, those were the days. Went out today to a party at a top beauty salon in Madison Ave. Lots of models and good times, shot a lot of footage on 1080p and it looks great. No mud to report this time. I guess I've learned how to work around the GH1 limitations. Good for me!
 
John Caballero said:
LOL. Oh, those were the days. Went out today to a party at a top beauty salon in Madison Ave. Lots of models and good times, shot a lot of footage on 1080p and it looks great. No mud to report this time. I guess I've learned how to work around the GH1 limitations. Good for me!
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this post is usless without pics or footage! =)
 
i for one really appreciate the input of those like commanderspike , i want to know what the camera CANNOT do just as much , if not more as what the camera CAN do.

The camera should be able to do what panasonic and its advert campaign say it can do , so to some degree a million posts confirming that is not that necessary..it should do what it says on the tin... therefore posting about its shortcomings is infinitely more useful to me when i considering the pro's of con's of any purchase.

unlike some on this board , i don't have the money to buy a different machine every 6 months , and i just want to get the best thing my limited budget can afford... so i support both comments praising and faulting the thing and i can agree with the frustrations of posting some of its shortcomings only to be told that its lack of talent ect or its the story that matters!

anyway just wanted to post my support for those who have things to say other than positive.
 
These type of threads really need to stop. I haven't been a member here very long, but I'm sick of the constant comparing and weighing up. Its been done to death. I made a very polite post suggesting you (captainspike) to start filming already, but yet more pointless banter.

If you were busy shooting constantly and creating works which pushed your own creative boundaries, the limitations of technology would be an issue. But frankly, the sparse camera work does not warranty this amount of critical posting. Phillip bloom's opinion is respected based on the quality of his work, but he stopped discussing these issues...why? Because he's too busy working.
 
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I agree that we need to be out shooting, but I disagree that comparative threads (especially one's like Barry's with real specs) need to stop. Aren't these at some level technical forums? Aside from evaluating footage and helping with problem questions, what else are we going to do on these forums aside from review, evaluate and compare this new technology, and then find the sweet spots, workarounds, and all that?
 
Kellar42 said:
I agree that we need to be out shooting, but I disagree that comparative threads (especially one's like Barry's with real specs) need to stop. Aren't these at some level technical forums? Aside from evaluating footage and helping with problem questions, what else are we going to do on these forums aside from review, evaluate and compare this new technology, and then find the sweet spots, workarounds, and all that?
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I think some issues have been discussed to death. When I mentioned the constant comparing, I meant complaining about things that cannot change, therefore either:

a) putting the onus on the manufacturer for updates
b) buyers remorse
c) Hailing the great new alternative from Brand X

Obviously this forum is a library of info, where we get answers by some very knowledgeable people (including Commanderspike)... but these threads are monotonous and very annoying. I'd prefer more useful threads...

Useful: "I have mud, what do I do? How can I avoid it?"

NOT useful: "I have mud, what are Panasonic going to do about it? Damn capitalist heathens..."
 
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Kellar42 said:
I agree that we need to be out shooting, but I disagree that comparative threads (especially one's like Barry's with real specs) need to stop. Aren't these at some level technical forums? Aside from evaluating footage and helping with problem questions, what else are we going to do on these forums aside from review, evaluate and compare this new technology, and then find the sweet spots, workarounds, and all that?
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themartist said:
These type of threads really need to stop. I haven't been a member here very long, but I'm sick of the constant comparing and weighing up. Its been done to death. I made a very polite post suggesting you (captainspike) to start filming already, but yet more pointless banter.

If you were busy shooting constantly and creating works which pushed your own creative boundaries, the limitations of technology would be an issue. But frankly, the sparse camera work does not warranty this amount of critical posting. Phillip bloom's opinion is respected based on the quality of his work, but he stopped discussing these issues...why? Because he's too busy working.
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I think it depends what you're interested in. I am interested in both the technology and the art, but I think of DVXUser.com as primarily a hardware discussion forum. It is a technical forum and it just so happens to have a great sub-forum for showing footage. But then even there people like to watch the footage because they get an impression of what the camera is capable of. Amazing footage from a £1000 camera is always going to be more exciting than amazing footage from a £4000 camera, because it makes that level of art and power accessible to anyone with talent. It's no longer about how much equipment you have. So I like to compare the cameras and to choose the best one - because they are VERY powerful tools at this price point (5D included).

I think the themartist has seen me comparing a lot lately and decided that's all I do. But out of all the videos I've uploaded to Vimeo in the last few months only 1 is a camera comparison. Each to their own views, I guess.\

I am in a period of learning, these cameras are new and haven't been around for long. Eventually I'll settle on one and get bored of the tech stuff, and if I don't produce a great movie at that point then shoot me.
 
Commander, in all fairness, you knew well enough before shooting that music clip in the woods that the codec was at its absolute worst with green detail like in grass and trees. Not to excuse the camera, but I think one of the most important things about indie/budget filmmaking is being able to target your production to the resources that you have available. Don't shoot grass if your camera can't process grass - find an alternative setting that will work better with your setup or obtain the tool you need.

I have used the GH1 for 2 months now and I understand it's limitations BEFORE I plan a single shot on my next film. I am 100% sure that all my plans will work out because I recognize the camera's limitations in how I conceive of my work - the ugliest footage comes from people who are in denial about their situation and try to do something that is beyond their means in terms of skill, tools, material, art direction, etc.

I think that's really what people mean when they talk about shooting like a pro. The 5d has different constraints to deal with in production, and maybe overall it is a better camera, but the fact still remains - the production needs to match the resources going into it, and the camera you use is really just a starting point.
 
andrzejkra said:
Commander, in all fairness, you knew well enough before shooting that music clip in the woods that the codec was at its absolute worst with green detail like in grass and trees. Not to excuse the camera, but I think one of the most important things about indie/budget filmmaking is being able to target your production to the resources that you have available. Don't shoot grass if your camera can't process grass - find an alternative setting that will work better with your setup or obtain the tool you need.
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I didn't know it would be so bad, because the camera was on a steadicam, and the movements were gentle and smooth. That's what made me decide to get the 5D, because the tool (GH1) wasn't up to the job in this case.
 
And for those who want threads like this terminated, well, too bad -- it is finding out stuff like this, as andrzejkra points out, that is the whole point -- so that folks don't end up in commanderspike's position, where he tried to do something that was simply beyond the capability of his chosen product to accomodate.

How was he supposed to know those limitations? By us going out and testing, researching, shooting charts, shooting motion tests, and figuring out what these things can and cannot do.

Until we get cameras that perform well under all circumstances, we'll keep doing this, to find out what these new products can handle, and what types of things they can't handle.
 
Barry_Green said:
How was he supposed to know those limitations? By us going out and testing, researching, shooting charts, shooting motion tests, and figuring out what these things can and cannot do.
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There is real irony here.

I banged on about mud being a serious problem from the beginning but many said it wasn't an issue and that I should just 'go and shoot'.

So I went and shot, ignored what my own research had told me, and went over the limits of the camera.

Then I came back and do more tests. But people say 'go and shoot'! "It's all about story!"

And now people say that I've gone beyond the limitations of the camera and should have listened to the forum tests.

??????????

The best advice is sometimes your own. :bath:
 
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