T2i or 7d (i know...I know...) and a few other questions

G

GRIMWORX

Well-known member
Ok so I have spent hours reading about 550d and the 7d... so im not really looking to bore everyone to death going over it.

I have found the answer to be 'YES' the 550d is practically identical to the 7d as far as video is concerned...plastic body, less ISO increments and you have to press a button down whilst turning a wheel instead of just a dedicated wheel for aperture control.

....Why can I buy this camera with kit lens for £650? What??? The internet is a dangerous place for opinions and 'fact' alike, so Im treading carefully. If I'm required to spend big bucks to get what I want then I will, but I wont overspend pointlessly. If the above differences are the only differences, I can sure live with that for a £800 difference for the 7D.


Obviously DLSR has a lot of drawbacks and we all know them by now. Aliasing, moire, jello, short record times, audio...plus all the gadgets needed to shoot. These things can all be overcome with a certain amount of expense and skill. You see one video with horrific jello then another which has been beautifully crafted.

Having spent so much time looking into DLSR, I am sad to say I have become quite dissapointed with my HMC 151. I KNOW they are both tools and all the rest of it... but I'm a guy who for the forseeable future will be shooting music videos and short films. I think I have the wrong tool. The big sensor look of the DLSR looks fantastic, and I feel I am being outdone by my competition simply because when an audience views it, there image quality does surpass mine. Perhaps I am being over sensitive...

So it comes down to this:

1. I shoot alot of overcranked slow mo type stuff that I time re-map. However the SLR do not shoot variable frame rates at the same resolution... So if I was shooting it 1080p 25p...then wanted to shoot at 50fps to mix in the same timeline what would I do?! Call me a noob but Ive spent the last 4 years shooting on video cameras so have never had to overcome this!

2. I CANNOT afford zacuto, red rock, or any other super priced rig gear. I would have to go for something like the PROAIM http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170547413957&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_9768wt_1139 Ive heard somewhat mixed reviews about the proaim gear... of course its not going to be as good as the big boys but if it does the job for the price, im game. One question I would ask is could I buy the rail and steadycam set and fit a more reputable companies FF etc?

3. would the 18-55 lens give me sufficient depth of field for when I need it? If not what would you recommend? I would definitely pick up a 50mm 1.8.


alot of info and a few questions... Any help you can offer would be great!
 
You`ve already answered the most of your own questions. I use the 550 as a back up camera and it`s astonishing "good looking". Concerning the 18-55: This lens gives you nearly the same DOF as the 50mm 1.8. But if you`re looking for a smaller DOF I would recommend a "longer" lense over 85mm.

Cheers

Thomas.
 
AD Tom said:
You`ve already answered the most of your own questions. I use the 550 as a back up camera and it`s astonishing "good looking". Concerning the 18-55: This lens gives you nearly the same DOF as the 50mm 1.8. But if you`re looking for a smaller DOF I would recommend a "longer" lense over 85mm.

Cheers

Thomas.
Click to expand...

Hi cheers for the reply! My only real questions were the last 3 and numbered... concerning the lenses, I would want the 50mm and a lens that gave me a deeper depth of focus for long shots etc, what would you recommend for that?
 
Why not consider the 60D? You get a lot of the 7D benefits plus an articulated LCD screen and manual audio levels.

18-55 and the 50mm f/1.8 are going to be difficult to shoot video with because the focus rings are super small and jumpy. I'd suggest skipping the kit zoom and for now skipping the support rig (some kind of support is pretty necessary for handheld but it doesn't have to be something fancy with rails and stuff, there's lots of options for under $100) and just picking up some glass for your money. I'd recommend looking at Nikkor primes because you can get fast ones for much cheaper than the Canons (assuming you won't miss auto focus) and their quality will be much higher than the low-end Canon glass. The main point of SLR filmmaking is to get to use interchangeable lenses so I am sort of confused why people try to do everything with two and then spend all their money on support rigs and accessories when they could be picking up some nice glass.

So to recap my advice is, 60D, sub-$100 support rig (or build something yourself), 1970s used Nikon glass, higher end Canon lenses (either now or eventually.)

As for slow motion, you'd have to shoot 720/50p and conform it to 25p to overcrank. After that, you'd have to either edit it in a 720p timeline with your 1080 footage, or vice versa. The Canons have a pretty pathetic 720p image when it comes to resolved resolution, so I'd be careful. Go out there and get some raw footage and see how you like it.
 
Its not so much bokeh and shallow depth of field that im worried about. That CAN be achieved with the HMC. Sure it's not designed for it, and in some situations it's not possible, but shooting fully zoomed in and standing a little farther back creates more than enough bokeh for what im doing. There are ways round it with a little patience is all im saying.

Its the actually quality of the image that concerns me. I Just cannot get as nice an image with it. I'm hoping it is my error. Im currently running with barry greens 'LO NOIZ' setting and im aware that will lower the sharpness somewhat, but I was previously plagued by noise! Is there some middle ground?

If I could get my hmc footage looking like THIS http://vimeo.com/4996072 I wouldn't change!

Cheers for the advice. Man I'm in a pickle.
 
What kind of post-production color grading are you doing? Can you show us some of your work so we can give suggestions?
 
I use magic bullet...or Mojo.

I just spoke to the guy who did the above video, he shot on default settings straight out the box. I believe him as he also seems to think he shot it in 120fps?? Dont think thats possible....?

Ill throw an example up later... but as far as it goes, should the 151 not be able to get as sharp as say a 7d due to the sensor etc? I am just wanting too much from the camera?
 
The HMC-150 should be significantly sharper than the 7D in terms of actual resolved detail, but the 7D adds lots of false detail.
 
The 550D and 7D image quality is the same. The reason why 7D is more expensive is because of its capabilities with still photography. In that category, 7d has a lot of upgrades to the 550D. Video-wise, they are the same.

Alternatively, I feel the 60D is also the same as the 550D except with audio controls and a swiveling LCD screen. To be honest, neither are that important since 550D has magic lantern and swivel screen... eh it's okay but not really worth the extra bucks (especially when you could take that money and go buy an external monitor).
 
Ben, you beat me to what I was going to say. :)

And Kevinkt, when did the T2i get a swivel screen???
 
Grim, I have both a T2i (550) and a HMC150. I love both for different reasons. But don't buy the T2i, save the money and buy the 7d. you will regret not having the environmentally sealed body! (or just buy my T2i, I'm putting it on Ebay next week to buy the 7d body). I have spent the money for L series Canon lens, and let me tell you, they are fabulous! But the audio on either 7D or other is crap, and going through the gyrations to do Zoom and Pluraleyes is just odd when I have a great camera that plugs XLR in and allows me to monitor it! I plug in my Oktava or Audiotronic mics to my Mixpre and just plug into the HMC with low or no hiss. Works great.

True enough, in low light night clubs the T2i sensor blows away the Panny. thats one reason I have it!

BUT, you will spend more than a HMC 150 to buy an entire kit for a Canon sensor, let me tell you...multiple glass, focusing rings, specility focusing devices, zoom recorders, plural eyes, and on and on. I've easily spent $3000 on this 'cheap' camera, and now am upgrading to the 7d body! But it has been worth it. I use both cameras in different ways, just don't try to use the T2i as a B camera for a 150...color grading will blow any profit margin you make on a job...unless someone has a secret they can share with me.

As to the guy with the wedding video on the 150...let me tell you, he understands more about lighting and depth of field than you know. he could do that with a pinhole camera I bet. Study up on lighting and you too will be able to do anything you want with your 150...
 
GRIMWORX said:
2. I CANNOT afford zacuto, red rock, or any other super priced rig gear. I would have to go for something like the PROAIM http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170547413957&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_9768wt_1139 Ive heard somewhat mixed reviews about the proaim gear... of course its not going to be as good as the big boys but if it does the job for the price, im game. One question I would ask is could I buy the rail and steadycam set and fit a more reputable companies FF etc?
Click to expand...

I recently bought the Jag35 Field Runner and DFocus V3 Follow Focus for use with my T2i for cheaper than the Indian gear and am having great success with it thus far.
It's a little light and small but that sort of works for the DSLR's. It felt stupid on the rig I use for my Sony EX3.
 
I have the 7D, 60D and T2i. And I've had them all since a week or two after they were released.

With my experiences in mind, go for the 60D. You'll use the articulating screen more than you might think. And while it's nice to get separate audio from a Zoom H4N or something, the 60D is at least better audio-wise than the 7D and T2i.

The only reason I'd say go for the 7D over the 60D is if low-light is a priority. Even with fast glass (17-55 2.8 and 50 1.4) I've found the Rebel T2i to struggle with the 7D. Or if you are also going to use the camera for photography, go for the 7D.

So in short, go for the 60D unless low-light is a priority.
 
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