C300: Support options for the C300 MKII

[puredrifting]

I posted this here instead of in the support forum because the support forum is dead and I wanted to ask this question specifically to the C300 MKII owner operators. What kind of support system are you using with your C300 MKII package and what are your likes and dislikes about it? For guys like Eric C, and JM Gardiner, you are using a pretty kitted out packages with heavy cinema lenses, what does your entire package with handles, FF, your most used lens, etc. weigh? What kind of tripod are you using? Are you happy with the tripod you are using?

I currently shoot with the Sachtler DV6 SB mounted on the Miller Solo DV carbon legs. I have no complaints about the system, I have used it for more than a decade on all kinds of projects with everything from DSLRs to Reds, the C300 MKI and my own C100 package. The weight capacity is rated at 19.8 lbs max though for the head and as we all know, you have to take weight ratings with a grain of salt. I may be buying a C300 MKII package soon though and I am thinking it may be a wise move to step up to a 100mm head and tripod with greater weight capacity. Just for my own specs, it will be a C300 MKII, Wooden camera handle, some kind of QR plate system, mostly smaller and lighter lenses (I rarely shoot with cinema glass for what I do). The longest, heaviest I will be using is probably the 70-200 2.8 IS II with a lens support. No follow focus or wireless focus, no matte box or filters. I will possibly buy an Atomos Shogun Inferno or other recorder/monitor. I shoot BTS/EPK/Corporate/Documentary mostly so I need to keep my camera package as small and light as possible, I don't shoot features or music videos/commercials too often and if I do, I usually rent the Amira. I am thinking the Sachtler FSB10 with the CF2 legs would be an affordable, quality tripod system for the C300 MKII. It is rated at 26.5lb capacity. I could probably get away with using my DV6SB in the configurations I will be using the C300 MKII in (no AB or V mount batteries, I prefer the stock large capacity battery) Anyone with thoughts or first hand knowledge about the FSB10 head? It seems like a lot of bang for the buck but I have owned enough Sachtlers to know that sometimes when they cut price, they cut long term quality too like the crappy ACE systems. Does the FSB10 work well and will it hold up for a decade or more as my DV6 SB has? Any other non-Sachtler options I should be considering for $3,500.00 that can hold at least 26.5 lbs? I am pretty much focused on Sachtler, I have used Vinten and they are okay but Sachtler is better. The only other heads that I think are as good were O'Connor but they were huge and heavy and I don't think they are even in the game anymore. Manfrotto, Benro, etc. to me are crap and I would never consider them (my travel tripod setup is a Manfrotto, ugh, but I can't bring myself to let the airlines lose my Sachtler when I travel, often with multiple plane changes).

Also, which camera plate option would you recommend for my type of lighter, more streamlined C300 MKII setup? I often switch from shoulder mount, change the lens and go to tripod many times in a day so I need a system that is simple, easy to use, sometimes side load is a big advantage because of front handles, arms holding the recorder, etc.

Thanks for any input guys. I am in research mode and your input is very valuable as you are in the daily trenches with your C300 MKII and I only rent them occasionally with a tripod but will soon buy my own package.

 

[Jim Martin]

From what I understand, you are correct in looking at the new FSB10 package. I myself prefer the "T" top to the sliding plate (FSB10 T vs FSB10). I haven't physically played with it yet but the original DV10 & DV12 were my choice as the right packages to use with the C300 and the Mark II.....around 30lbs payload which covers almost all set ups. Also, if you do a lot of long lens work, the Sachtlers are the best (along with Oconnor).....for example, if you zoom in 5-10 times, you magnify your movement 5-10 times and that is where they shine.

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com

 

[puredrifting]

Jim, you've been at this for a while. In your opinion, did Sachtler make any significant design or manufacturing compromises to get the cost of the FSB10 head down to where it is? I used to own the Video 18 with my ridiculously heavy Betacam, rented the Video 20s for years with the Varicam and F900s and have been shooting my DV6 SB for a long time. But when I laid hands on the ACE line, they seemed really junky to me. I would rather buy a used Video 18 head than a new FSB10 head if the FSB has been built with too much compromise just to hit a price point.

 

[Jim Martin]

I understand about your initial "feel" of the ACE line....some of the plastic feeling parts did worry me but as far as I can tell over the last 2-3 years, I've not heard or seen a bunch of broken ones. That being said, I suspect that Sachtler has improved their manufacturing & materials to where they are able to put out some of these newer tripod kits (ACEs, FSB 4,6,8s) that meet their German standards. I look forward to seeing the FSB10 in person.
Not sure if that helps

...Jim

 

[puredrifting]

Sure Jim, I always value your opinion, you see and play with about ten times more gear than any of us so your input is always valuable. Hopefully someone who is currently shooting with an FSB10 will chime in on smoothness, feel and how it's holding up to pro usage.

 

[Jim Feeley]

Ya, the Sachtler FSB10 does look interesting. But I don't think it's available yet. At least, it looks like it was just sneaked/announced a few days ago and "officially" rolls out around IBC in 10 or so days. At least, B&H still lists it as a special order (i.e.- not in stock), and that's the vibe I get from this writeup:
http://www.newsshooter.com/2016/08/...re-affordable-fsb-10-100mm-fluid-head-tripod/

But if anyone here has tried it...or plans to check it out at IBC, would love to know what you think... My older 75mm Vinten has served me well, but I'll be looking for something else in 2017...

 

[AlainAlain]

I just put together a C300M2 shoulder kit, varying from Vocas to Woodencamera stuff, with QR for tripod & Movi M10. I can send you a picture if you want it.

 

[seanarmada]

I just put together a C300M2 shoulder kit, varying from Vocas to Woodencamera stuff, with QR for tripod & Movi M10. I can send you a picture if you want it.

Would be great to see a photo of this with any details. Looking to purchase a C300 mk II soon.

 

[slavikb]

Here's a pic of our C300II setup, with a Wooden Camera top plate for a very tight package, instead of using the stock handle which moves everything up and forward. And a short Audio-Technica AT875R shotgun. This setup is not that much different from a C100 rig.



Keeping it small allows us to use our lightweight C100 monopods and tripods. We're using the Gitzo GT2531LVL with a Manfrotto 500AH head. Is it the best heavy-duty tripod and head for a C300II? Of course not, but it's incredibly compact for travel, it's cheap-ish, weighs maybe 5-6 pounds, and works well enough for the kind of shooting we do. I'm only sharing, puredrifting, because I know we have similar tastes in gear and shooting styles, emphasizing simplicity over extravagance, and maybe this info will be helpful. But when I was contemplating getting the C300II, I was told by everyone that you need to use big, heavy-duty tripods to support the C300II, and that everything made for DSLR or C100-size rigs simply wouldn't work. Which was the main reason we held off on buying the C300II for months, not wanting to have to start completely over with our equipment, packing, and shooting habits. But it turns out that wasn't necessary. I also have a Cfast recommendation for you if you go down the C300II route.

The C300II is definitely not as simple and fun to use like the C100, but I think you'll love it. The 12-bit 444 color makes editing a joy. PM me if you want other persuasive reasons to get out your credit card.

 

[jm.gardiner]

On my mk2 right now:
Movcam Top handle, Wooden Camera's FS7-EVF-Relocator paired with the small rig cold shoe clamp to 15mm rod, same on the opposite side for the rode shock mount, Zacuto pro-vct, small rig rosettes and handles, wooden camera d-box, genus tech superior follow focus (upgrading to the bright tangerine whenever it comes out)

Lately I've been shooting a lot of verite "man-cam" style and have just been using the c300's side handle and a small rig rosette handle mounted on the left side next to the lens.

Tripod: cartoni gamma with manfrotto 536 legs (unless I'm on a dolly, then i switch back to the cartoni 2 stage carbon fiber legs, the feet are more stable)

 

[seanarmada]

Here's a pic of our C300II setup, with a Wooden Camera top plate for a very tight package, instead of using the stock handle which moves everything up and forward. And a short Audio-Technica AT875R shotgun. This setup is not that much different from a C100 rig.

View attachment 116897

Keeping it small allows us to use our lightweight C100 monopods and tripods. We're using the Gitzo GT2531LVL with a Manfrotto 500AH head. Is it the best heavy-duty tripod and head for a C300II? Of course not, but it's incredibly compact for travel, it's cheap-ish, weighs maybe 5-6 pounds, and works well enough for the kind of shooting we do. I'm only sharing, puredrifting, because I know we have similar tastes in gear and shooting styles, emphasizing simplicity over extravagance, and maybe this info will be helpful. But when I was contemplating getting the C300II, I was told by everyone that you need to use big, heavy-duty tripods to support the C300II, and that everything made for DSLR or C100-size rigs simply wouldn't work. Which was the main reason we held off on buying the C300II for months, not wanting to have to start completely over with our equipment, packing, and shooting habits. But it turns out that wasn't necessary. I also have a Cfast recommendation for you if you go down the C300II route.

The C300II is definitely not as simple and fun to use like the C100, but I think you'll love it. The 12-bit 444 color makes editing a joy. PM me if you want other persuasive reasons to get out your credit card.

That top plate looks great! Do you feel anything usability wise is being comprised by not using the stock handle?

 

[slavikb]

That top plate looks great! Do you feel anything usability wise is being comprised by not using the stock handle?

Nope, unless you like to have the monitor farther out and higher up.

In addition to the Wooden Camera C100/C300 top plate, you'd also want to get the Wooden Camera Shoe Handle Mount, and use that for the monitor unit. Other shoe adapters (like the one I have on the side, for wireless lav receivers) aren't nearly as solid and trustworthy for holding the monitor unit. Here's the link: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...61300_shoe_handle_mount.html/pageID/accessory

The handle is Smallrig, which fits nicely, doesn't impede the EVF or the view of the LCD screen, and does the job of being a handle.

 

[seanarmada]

Nope, unless you like to have the monitor farther out and higher up.

In addition to the Wooden Camera C100/C300 top plate, you'd also want to get the Wooden Camera Shoe Handle Mount, and use that for the monitor unit. Other shoe adapters (like the one I have on the side, for wireless lav receivers) aren't nearly as solid and trustworthy for holding the monitor unit. Here's the link: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...61300_shoe_handle_mount.html/pageID/accessory

The handle is Smallrig, which fits nicely, doesn't impede the EVF or the view of the LCD screen, and does the job of being a handle.

Thanks so much for that advice. I really love the form factor you've created there, it seems like a great compromise between C100 and C300 bodies.

Curious if you've completed any projects with the C300 mkII you can share here?

 

[Matt Turner]

Wooden Camera top plate for a very tight package...

OK that's very much what I want to achieve! I want to go handheld with a handle, but also find the Canon handle places the monitor either too high or too forward for my liking.

A few questions if you have time:

1. Does the low and forward position of the monitor directly over the lens:
a. Make it a bit front heavy?
b. make the xlr assembly get close to the side handle?
c. does the mic pick up more lens AF noise etc?

2. You'll be hitting somewhere around 4.0-4.5kg for that setup (???) does that make it a little heavy for all day use? I'm used to a C100

3. I see smallrig have shoe mount handles, any reason you went with the allen key version? Obviously it would be more sturdy but I assume the shoe mount one could handle the weight, it would just require a cold shoe fitted to the top plate.

Thanks!

 

[slavikb]

Curious if you've completed any projects with the C300 mkII you can share here?

Sure, here's the first thing we shot after we got the C300II: https://vimeo.com/170909499

Much of it handheld (with this same setup but had a different handle on before the Smallrig arrived), or on a monopod or the tripod setup mentioned before. Canon 10-18mm and 18-135mm for B-roll, 70-200mm f4 IS for the interview. Was shot in HD, and the aerial stuff is just an old Phantom 2 with a GoPro.

It was a good test run for me and my partner-in-crime to see if the C300II would be too big or bulky or get in the way of our normal shooting style we've done hundreds of times with C100s, and we were happy to find out it wasn't too much different, except for now having slow mo, better monitor viewing positions (and brightness), and in the edit the 12 bit footage was so easy to grade without any noise, using C-log.

It was a relief because the only setups we'd seen of C300II up until we got one was on a giant rig with giant batteries and all sorts of accessories that made it seem farther and farther from the simplicity of a C100 by itself.

OK that's very much what I want to achieve! I want to go handheld with a handle, but also find the Canon handle places the monitor either too high or too forward for my liking.

A few questions if you have time:

1. Does the low and forward position of the monitor directly over the lens:
a. Make it a bit front heavy?
b. make the xlr assembly get close to the side handle?
c. does the mic pick up more lens AF noise etc?

2. You'll be hitting somewhere around 4.0-4.5kg for that setup (???) does that make it a little heavy for all day use? I'm used to a C100

3. I see smallrig have shoe mount handles, any reason you went with the allen key version? Obviously it would be more sturdy but I assume the shoe mount one could handle the weight, it would just require a cold shoe fitted to the top plate.

Thanks!

1a. Nope! It's very nicely balanced. You'll see in the pics that the monitor does get close to a normal EF lens (77mm diameter), when the monitor is flipped in its low position, so if you were using a bigger cine lens or something you might need to move the monitor unit up to sit on top of the top plate.

1b. I've been wrapping the XLR and AV cables through the grip handle loop, as seen in the photos below, but you can also place them in the space between the camera and grip handle and they're more out of the way. I like it better that way, but worry if squeezing the cables a little will shorten their lifespan.

1c. I've never had issue with the AT875R picking up camera noise. With the rycote windjammer on, the 10-18mm lens will see a piece of it in the corner at 10mm, so you can either move the mic back, move the monitor up, or what I do is just take the windjammer off for the few super wide shots.

2. It's 3.5kg (just weighed it) with everything except a lens. Definitely heavier than a C100. But not unruly. Even though it doesn't last as long, I keep the weight down by using only the small Canon batteries rather than the bigger ones.

3. Yeah, the allen wrench version is solid as a rock. Previously I did have a little shoe and I put a smaller handle on it (pic below), but it was not trustworthy and would shimmy out slowly throughout the day.

Thanks guys, I am glad you're interested in this setup as I think it's just about the simplest way to use a C300II and get all the benefits of this camera without the bulk of big rigs, or even the stock handle!

Cheers,
Slavik



Previous handle on a cold shoe...

 

[Matt Turner]

Awesome thanks for the info! I'm going to put in an order today.

For cable management I have used a veclro strap to loop the camera cables:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/733008-REG/Pearstone_s0506_10_b_5_x_6_Touch.html/prm/alsVwDtl

Hopefully it doesn't cause damage but I figure if it does the cables are replaceable. It's not that I want to pay US$300! But judging by the C300 MK1 it might be inevitable anyway over the lifespan to replace them at least once.

I guess there is now at least a possibility that Canon or a 3rd party will make a 1 foot / 30cm cable, which would be much better for a tight handheld setup.

Also I have used a very short coiled XLR cable:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/845562-REG/Kopul_m4003rc_3_Pin_XLR_M_to_Angled.html

 

[seanarmada]

Awesome thanks for the info! I'm going to put in an order today.

For cable management I have used a veclro strap to loop the camera cables:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/733008-REG/Pearstone_s0506_10_b_5_x_6_Touch.html/prm/alsVwDtl

Hopefully it doesn't cause damage but I figure if it does the cables are replaceable. It's not that I want to pay US$300! But judging by the C300 MK1 it might be inevitable anyway over the lifespan to replace them at least once.

I guess there is now at least a possibility that Canon or a 3rd party will make a 1 foot / 30cm cable, which would be much better for a tight handheld setup.

Also I have used a very short coiled XLR cable:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/845562-REG/Kopul_m4003rc_3_Pin_XLR_M_to_Angled.html


View attachment 116931

View attachment 116932

Nice tip! Do you find the extra eyepiece chamoise is pretty helpful vs. the rubbery eyepiece that comes stock?

 

[Matt Turner]

Nice tip! Do you find the extra eyepiece chamoise is pretty helpful vs. the rubbery eyepiece that comes stock?

The Canon eyepiece is a bit rubbery to me, I prefer the bluestar eyecushion.

I have used them since I had a Canon 7D + Z-finder so I'm used to them by now.

 

[slavikb]

Thanks for the cable tips! That looks a lot cleaner and less likely to get in the way.

Awesome thanks for the info! I'm going to put in an order today.

For cable management I have used a veclro strap to loop the camera cables:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/733008-REG/Pearstone_s0506_10_b_5_x_6_Touch.html/prm/alsVwDtl

Hopefully it doesn't cause damage but I figure if it does the cables are replaceable. It's not that I want to pay US$300! But judging by the C300 MK1 it might be inevitable anyway over the lifespan to replace them at least once.

I guess there is now at least a possibility that Canon or a 3rd party will make a 1 foot / 30cm cable, which would be much better for a tight handheld setup.

Also I have used a very short coiled XLR cable:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/845562-REG/Kopul_m4003rc_3_Pin_XLR_M_to_Angled.html


View attachment 116931

View attachment 116932

 

[Eric Coughlin]

Just saw this topic had my name on it while looking for another post...

When I'm all kitted out using a cinema zoom lens, matte box, follow focus, etc., my rig is around 20-24 lbs. Maybe an extra 3-4 pounds for shoulder mount and front handles attached to the shoulder mount. I like to have a full setup that I can detach from the shoulder mount and then mount directly to Steadicam (since I don't like the extra height the shoulder mount would add to a Steadicam setup), and my Steadicam supports up to 24 lbs.

For more run n gun type scenarios, with still lenses, my camera setup is around 10 lbs.

I have a Vinten Vision Blue head which supports up to 11 lbs and find it works pretty well with the run n gun setup. For the kitted out setup, I'm often working with a guy who has a Sachtler DV-10SB head which is up to 26.6 lbs so we've been using that. I find it okay, but nothing special. I also used the Sachtler DV-12SB a few days ago and also found it mediocre. My main beef with those Sachtler tripods is that at max tension, they aren't very stiff, which makes getting slow moves difficult; even my $877 Vinten Vision Blue has tighter tension than the $3300 Sachtler DV-12SB.

The only Sachtler head I've been impressed with is the Sachtler 20 S1. It got nice and tight on the tension. Smooth moves with a 400mm lens. But its starts and stops weren't as buttery smooth as the O'Connor 1030.

I think the next tripod head I'll get will be the Really Right Stuff FH-350. It's up to 10 lbs, so should handle my run n gun setups well, and is around 2 lbs lighter than the Vinten, as well as being flat based and modular for quickly switching between slider, monopod, tripod, jib, etc.

Then I may get an O'Connor 1030 perhaps in the next year or two, though the Sachtler 20 S1 is an option as well. The O'Connor is only about one pound heavier than the Sachtler 20 S1.

O'Connor 1030: 8.7 lb
Sachtler 20 S1: 7.5 lbs
Sachtler DV-10SB: 5.7 lbs

I need to try Miller tripods more. I used a DS-10 or DS-20 on one shoot and was pretty happy with it. Aside from that, I tested some Millers out (such as the Compass) at B&H in NY but don't recall how much I liked them from that very limited use to form an opinion on them. Vinten Vision Blue5 is another option for up to 26 lbs.