Super Confused - Which Camera?

HowdyDoo

HowdyDoo

Well-known member
Alright... I've been reading posts and following the news on all the cameras currently available and after 4 months I STILL have no idea as to what camera to get.

I am an independent filmmaker that makes commercials for a living. I make low budget commercials ($1K - $2K) to medium/high budget commercials ($15K - $30K). For now I've been shooting my low budget commercials with my DVX100a and renting the Varicam and the SDX900 for the other stuff. I make feature films in my off time.

What camera best suits my needs? The Sony, the JVC, the Panasonic, or the Canon? Each camera has major aspects to it that both entice me and frighten me. I would like a professionals opinion as to which camera best suits my needs. I didn't know much about the JVC until just recently and it looks pretty good from what I can tell.

Any opinions?
 
Howdy,

I read your post and answered it in the HVX forum, where there is a decidedly negative slant towards the H1.

I own one and I love it. It does do 24p, known as 24F, and it looks really good, and truly high-def. The H1 can key very well, especially off of HDV downconverts to DV50.

I think it all depends on what aspects of image quality and workflow matter most to you. I like the simplicity of HDV, even though I don't edit in the format. For me, it's acquisition only, but of course this could change with better support in FCP.

If you have any other questions, I'll be happy to answer, but for now I'll give you a small list of the things I think make the H1 a damn good HD camera.

--No BS HD resolution. HDV or SDI, it's very detailed and jaw dropping. 1.67MP CCD block is stellar.
--Removeable optics.
--Good low light with less objectionable noise (IMHO, the cleanest in the category)
--Fully adjustable image tweaking via custom presets
--24F makes very nice 24p
--Shoulder mount and great OIS w/stock lens
--SDI!! I use it with a Mac/FCP/Kona setup. It's the ultimate option for greenscreen
--TC I/O. Genlock, SDI. This camera can be used in true live television production. It's already been successfully used in conjunction w/HDCAM cameras
--Great telephoto and better DOF w/stock lens
--Focus readout in feet/meters. I really like this feature...makes the camera easier to repeat focus points
--1080i makes very good 720 60p, which can emulate HVX/Varicam overcrank when the framerate is conformed to 24p in 720. In other words, you can get pretty damn good slow motion from the camera too, if you know what you're doing.

Just a few key points to consider. It's nice and could probably work very well for you.
 
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I'll have to second Elton's comments about the XL-H1. I just put my purchase order in at Birns & Sawyer for my new rig. Even the guys at Birns believe the XL-H1 is by far the better camera.

It also recently got a big thumbs up from the HD guru, Scott Billups. And that's saying something.
 
Thanks for the honest response. That really helped me out. I do have a few questions...

Do you use the SDI output on the Canon when you're in the field? If so, what VTR do you use with it?
 
I'm only using the HD-SDI output into my Mac when I'm on the bluescreen/greenscreen stage. Everything else is straight to tape.

There are some new products coming out this year similar to the Firestores that will let you choose your codec. The Wafian is one of them, but it's a little too big for run-n-gun.
 
DVProHD is not without it's own issues and problems. It's certainly a good codec. But it's not the magic bullet codec the HVX guys claim it is.
 
Starway,

That is a killer avatar!

In my experience DVCPRO HD has been a fairly well behaved codec in acquisition and in FCP, but you're right, it isn't the best one out there. I'm still hoping Cineform might make it to the Mac.

Howdy--I'd recommend waiting for a portable SDI device to emerge, along the lines of a Firestore. I think the Wafian's an awesome product, but it still requires you to be tethered to some degree.
 
That's my new rig, man! I'm in love with the new addition to the family!

We went into downtown Los Angeles last night and got onto a rooftop of a 12 story building. I wanted to shoot some available light tests as I'm hoping to shoot a couple scenes up there in April. I'm amazed how much radiant light downtown L.A. produces.

I still need to review the footage on my FCP system to truly evaluate what I got, but it looks like 1/24th shutter with 6db gain produced some good results. Hopefully I can post some results soon.
 
starway2001@mac.com said:
That's my new rig, man! I'm in love with the new addition to the family!
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Congrats! What a beautiful baby! I don't smoke but I'll blaze a stogey in honor of that one!

We went into downtown Los Angeles last night and got onto a rooftop of a 12 story building. I wanted to shoot some available light tests as I'm hoping to shoot a couple scenes up there in April. I'm amazed how much radiant light downtown L.A. produces.

I still need to review the footage on my FCP system to truly evaluate what I got, but it looks like 1/24th shutter with 6db gain produced some good results. Hopefully I can post some results soon.
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Pappas and I did something similar after the screening in Hollywood, and the footage was very interesting. Btw, if you shoot 1/24 6db with the H1 that will look very "Collateral-like" which I'm not a big fan of. I hated the slurry electronic/video 24p look in so much of that movie, which was due to shooting night scenes at 1/24 shutter. Consider shooting 1/48 24F at maybe even 12 db with NR2 on. If you can deal with some of the noise, at least the motion won't have that slurry look.

Just a thought. Congrats again man!
 
Fascinating.

I've been watching Collateral a lot lately because so much of my project will be shot in downtown L.A. And I always wondered why some shots looked "video-ish" in its motion. I suspected they were doing something with the shutter. And now I know. Cool. Thanks for the info.

I did shoot some shots at 1/48 and 12db for reference. NR2 set the "middle". Coring set to +4.

Can't wait to get out the office and back to Tranquility Base (my home) to put these shots up on the plasma and see what I really have here.

I suppose the great part of shooting at 6-12db is that my lighting package can be very small. I'll probably only need a couple 200W and some bounce cards to light the talent.

I don't know if it was Dion Bebee or Cameron who said that it was thier experience on Collateral that as long as the faces of the actors weren't noisy, it didn't matter how noisy the rest of the frame was. I'm assuming they made this realization because they were dealing with noise issues while shooting it.

And it appears that some of that 1/24th shutter motion rendering has been used on "Miami Vice" too. Too bad. However, I'm really looking forward to MV as I was a big fan of the TV show and that it's another high-profile HD production from Mann.
 
starway2001@mac.com said:
I did shoot some shots at 1/48 and 12db for reference. NR2 set the "middle". Coring set to +4.
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How'd it look?

I suppose the great part of shooting at 6-12db is that my lighting package can be very small. I'll probably only need a couple 200W and some bounce cards to light the talent.
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Yes, that good low-light performance will help lighten the load.

I don't know if it was Dion Bebee or Cameron who said that it was thier experience on Collateral that as long as the faces of the actors weren't noisy, it didn't matter how noisy the rest of the frame was.
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Makes sense. I liked the movie and wasn't distracted so much by the noise as I was the 1/24 shutter motion. Blechhh.

And it appears that some of that 1/24th shutter motion rendering has been used on "Miami Vice" too. Too bad. However, I'm really looking forward to MV as I was a big fan of the TV show and that it's another high-profile HD production from Mann.
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Bleeeechhhh!!!! Miami Vice was a fun show for its time, but some of those shots in the trailer looked like ***. I hate it when they use HD but let it SCREAM video! Might as well shoot 1080i and keep the "reality" look. At least that is a better representation of one of the virtues of HD video.

Anyway, please share the joys and sorrows you experience with your baby!! I'm very interested to know your opinion on how it compares to the F900.
 
I'm posting some h264 Quicktime's of the 1/48th 6db footage very soon. I think they look great. The backgrounds of the tall buildings are not the focus of any of the scenes or shots, so they don't need full exposure. But they're exposed just enough to give the shots that production value I'm looking for.
 
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