C100: Suggest me a wide angle lens please.

[Beeboop]

I just started doing wedding work. I own a C100 Mark II and will get a Sony A7S Mark I soon. I will be putting the Sony A7S on a Ronin M gimbal and would like a suggestion as to what wide angle lens would work with both the C100 and Sony A7S. What lens adapter would I need for the Sony A7S? My budget is 1k or less. Thanks!

 

[chappelldigital]

Tokina 11-16 f2.8
Canon EF -> E Adaptor. Lots of people use the metabones, I had issues with it (heard firmware has fixed many of them though).
I use an $80 e-bay chinese version with no problems at all.

$500 left to spend on other toys!

 

[DPStewart]

+1 for that Tokina.

Although you'd have to shoot the A7s in 35mm crop mode as this lens is designed to cover "DX" or 1.6 image sensors.

But it's a KILLER wide eye.

 

[abreu-canedo]

Do you need AF? Does it need to be an IS lens when not on the Ronin? And does it need to be a zoom, or can it be a prime? Your post didn't specify.

Depends what look you like. I can recommend the Nikkor AIS 28mm fully manual. Also, the canon 28mm with IS. I'm not as familiar with zooms, to be honest, but have hard great things about the aformentioned tokina. I've also heard complaints...but that's with everything.

 

[cpreston]

Or there is the Tokina 11-20 that nobody seems to realize exists. For full frame, I think the new 20mm f/1.4 might be useful.

 

[Beeboop]

Do you need AF? Does it need to be an IS lens when not on the Ronin? And does it need to be a zoom, or can it be a prime? Your post didn't specify.

Depends what look you like. I can recommend the Nikkor AIS 28mm fully manual. Also, the canon 28mm with IS. I'm not as familiar with zooms, to be honest, but have hard great things about the aformentioned tokina. I've also heard complaints...but that's with everything.

I am honestly pretty new to all this. Career change in the last two months you could say, so those questions that you brought up was not something that ever came to mind. I didn't plan on using AF as I wanted everything in focus. I believe the correct way in doing that is by closing the aperture, changing the F-stop to a high number? Image stabilization sounds nice but I do not believe it will be needed on the Ronin M. I am however going on a trip next month that might require IS so if you have an IS solution than I'm open ears.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.


Edit: I already own a Sigma 18-35 so I was looking for something outside of those number ranges.

 

[DPStewart]

OK...you're mostly on the right track, but let me fill in a few details you'll need.

First, almost all lenses get WORSE when you close them all the way down. It's due to lens diffraction.
The best practice is to back the aperture off at least 1 stop to lessen this. Most lenses perform their best between f/5.6 and f/8. But you want everything in focus - so what I always do when I need the best image quality all in focus is go 2 stops down from the biggest number. Some lenses go to f/22, others only to f/16. I have found that F/11 usually does a really good job of keeping as much in focus as possible while avoiding any bad diffraction a lens may introduce. Now you're thinking "but that's not the MOST all in-focus the lens will do" and you'd be right. It's a trade off. F/11 is pretty safe but you do have to spend a serious moment deciding what areas you definitely want to be the most in-focus - and focus on that.

IS is nice if the lens it's on is a great lens to start with.
It should never be used on a camera that is stable on a tripod, but in pretty much all other circumstances it's not going to hurt.

If you want wider than the Sigma you have then you're going to find about a Brazillion people who pair that Tokina 11-16mm with it. Or the 11-20mm I suppose too.
That's pretty wide stuff right there.

SteadyCams and Gimbals can still benefit from IS lenses. Again, it ain't gonna hurt.
The trick with wide lenses appearing more stabilized on gimbals and steadycams is just basic optics.
When you're looking at that wide a field of view, little tiny movements make very little noticeable difference - so the footage comes out looking smoother.
It's the opposite of the effect you get on a telephoto lens. I'm sure you've noticed that when looking through a very telephoto lens, if you make even the slightest little movement you see a huge movement swing in what you see through the lens.

There are not a whole lot of options out there wider than that Sigma you've got.

There's the SLR Magic 10mm and 12mm hyper-primes.
The Samyang/Rokinon 16mm.
Right now I'm drawing a blank on what else there is besides these 3 in this kind of PRICE RANGE that does not give you huge fish-eye distortion.

I know the Samyang will also NOT cover a Full-Frame sensor.
Pretty sure the SLR Magic lenses also do NOT cover a Full-Frame sensor.

So as for the A7s - you'l be shooting in crop-mode, but on that camera, honestly, that's a PLUS.

 

[Beeboop]

Hey thanks everyone. I ordered the Tokina 11-16. Haven't figured what brand e mount adaptor to get yet. Also, thanks for the detailed explanation DPStewart

 

[Eric Coughlin]

I second the Tokina 11-20 f/2.8. I haven't researched its quality compared to the 11-20, but I'd just go ahead and guess it's about the same image quality, with the added benefit of having 17-20mm. Like cpreston said, people seem to ignore its existence simply because the 11-16 has been around longer and has made a name for itself, while the 11-20 is newer (and thus probably better) and not as well known. That said, if I were buying I'd do some reasearch to make sure the image quality is up to par. I have the 11-16 and have considered selling it to get the 11-20.

IS is nice if the lens it's on is a great lens to start with.
It should never be used on a camera that is stable on a tripod, but in pretty much all other circumstances it's not going to hurt.

SteadyCams and Gimbals can still benefit from IS lenses. Again, it ain't gonna hurt.

IS is lens compensation for bad moves, mostly, jitters. If you're on a Steadicam, gimbal, jib, slider, tripod, then ideally those tools should be giving you good movement, such that IS would be compensating against that good movement that your stabilization tools are giving you, which is why you should generally leave IS off if you're using quality stabilization gear. If you're a bad Steadicam operator, are using a light and rickety jib, etc., then IS can help to compensate against the bad moves that your sub-par stabilization devices are giving you.

I generally only use IS when handheld or using a monopod (as the monopod often isn't stable enough on its own). I'll sometimes use it with my rickety Kessler Pocket Jib Traveler, though just sometimes, and will also sometimes use it when I'm on a long lens and don't feel the tripod is stable enough to keep the shots smooth or if there is wind shaking the tripod. Occasionally I'll accidentally leave IS on when doing a Steadicam shot and think, "Crud, now I'm going to have a wavy seasick bouncy motion to all my could have been nice and smooth Steadicam shots." Doesn't look terrible, but doesn't look good.

 

[DPStewart]

I second the Tokina 11-20 f/2.8. I haven't researched its quality compared to the 11-20, but I'd just go ahead and guess it's about the same image quality, with the added benefit of having 17-20mm. Like cpreston said, people seem to ignore its existence simply because the 11-16 has been around longer and has made a name for itself, while the 11-20 is newer (and thus probably better) and not as well known. That said, if I were buying I'd do some reasearch to make sure the image quality is up to par. I have the 11-16 and have considered selling it to get the 11-20.



IS is lens compensation for bad moves, mostly, jitters. If you're on a Steadicam, gimbal, jib, slider, tripod, then ideally those tools should be giving you good movement, such that IS would be compensating against that good movement that your stabilization tools are giving you, which is why you should generally leave IS off if you're using quality stabilization gear. If you're a bad Steadicam operator, are using a light and rickety jib, etc., then IS can help to compensate against the bad moves that your sub-par stabilization devices are giving you.

I generally only use IS when handheld or using a monopod (as the monopod often isn't stable enough on its own). I'll sometimes use it with my rickety Kessler Pocket Jib Traveler, though just sometimes, and will also sometimes use it when I'm on a long lens and don't feel the tripod is stable enough to keep the shots smooth or if there is wind shaking the tripod. Occasionally I'll accidentally leave IS on when doing a Steadicam shot and think, "Crud, now I'm going to have a wavy seasick bouncy motion to all my could have been nice and smooth Steadicam shots." Doesn't look terrible, but doesn't look good.

You know, that was always my take on it as well.
Until recently when I've been seeing folks posting clips of getting better results with IS - although I'll admit that most of it is from gimbals that are either suffering from too much bounce - like the 1-handle gimbals - or bigger ones that still seem to give micro jitters and other hash.

I suppose this plays right into your point about "QUALITY Stabilizers".
Also, a lot of these comparisons were made using the new slick 5-axis in-camera stabilization that a few of the new bodies are doing. ..Perhaps I should be considering that a different animal from IS lenses.

 

[Eric Coughlin]

Yeah, maybe I shouldn't have grouped in gimbals with that. Gimbals have that ugly up and down bounce when walking with them, so perhaps IS can help with that. I'm a Steadicam operator and have just a little experience with using gimbals, mostly because I don't like how the gimbal footage I see online generally looks.

Do the 5-axis cameras have the option of turning off the forward and backward axis? Watching Philip Bloom's recent A7SII footage along with other footage, I find the image moving back and forth toward you and away from you to not look good.

 

[DPStewart]

I'm a Steadicam operator and have just a little experience with using gimbals, mostly because I don't like how the gimbal footage I see online generally looks.

Thank you!

I have always felt the same way every time I watch gimbal footage, but I've never said anything because I figured everyone would draw their swords and make me walk the plank!