Strike Update

Sorry BL, but your point flew over my head. Elaborate?

Also, you have not addressed your earlier statements.

''It's no wonder you don't think writers deserve a fair salary, afterall, even burger flippers, according you, "Has an equal role" and in actual fact, according to you, a successful film doesn't even need a script.''

I cop to the burger-flipper bit (and stand by it) but the other two comments? Where did I say that?



a

www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com
www.guerro.wordpress.com

.
 
alex whitmer said:
All great points Sad, and well thought out. I'm softing my postion on some things, others not.
Click to expand...

I'm glad that you found it at least somewhat persuasive.

alex whitmer said:
I know there is little hope that human kind will just sort of magically be kind to each other, and pay a fair price for all work performed.
Click to expand...

It's a matter of getting precisely the right pharmaceuticals into the water, at exactly the proper dosage. Reports will be forthcoming as progress is observed.

In the mean time we have collective bargaining and general contracts and resort to strike, as necessary.

alex whitmer said:
Maybe I should drag myself to the side of rational thinking!
Click to expand...

There's coffee over here.

alex whitmer said:
I take cream with my coffee.
Click to expand...

And bagels. We have rational-thinking bagels, too.

homer.gif


Mmmmmmmm. Rationality bagels.
 
alex whitmer said:
Sorry BL, but your point flew over my head. Elaborate?

Also, you have not addressed your earlier statements.

''It's no wonder you don't think writers deserve a fair salary, afterall, even burger flippers, according you, "Has an equal role" and in actual fact, according to you, a successful film doesn't even need a script.''

I cop to the burger-flipper bit (and stand by it) but the other two comments? Where did I say that?



a

www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com
www.guerro.wordpress.com

.
Click to expand...

You said 1) scripts aren't necessary and 2) all members of a production are equally iimportant. Here, again, is your post:

" Originally Posted by alex whitmer

Every role, from camera operator, to actor, to burger flipper, to toilet cleaner, to director has an equal stake in seeing the screenplay morph from paper to the big screen.



There is such thing as guerrilla filmmaking that often works unscripted. Success varies.




alex"
 
Sorry BL, but niether of those coments are remotely close to what you claim I said or intended to mean.

Talk about a metemorphose.

Leave embelishment for the sake of arguement to the politicians and religious demagogues. Filmmakers really should operate on a higher level then that shmegma.

Again, Filmmakers have the worlds greatest medium for the exchange of ideas at their finger tips. Use it wisely and without limits.

Choose freely whether you want to make junk food or huate cuisine, but just remember, it's a snapshot of you, and the society in which you live. Or at least how you percieve it. Opinions vary.

And please, since options appear to be limited, don't dump on your fellow man in the pursuit of the almighty buck. It's really embarassing.

alex

www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com
www.guerro.wordpress.com
 
Your words are plain as day. They say what they say.

I'm not dumping on anyone. To the contrary, I'm sticking up for writers.

We've got contrasting views in regards to the value of their work. I see writers as the primary architects, you see them as spokes in a wheel. To each his own.
 
[I said:
alex whitmer[/I]]Y

Every role, from camera operator, to actor, to burger flipper, to toilet cleaner, to director has an equal stake in seeing the screenplay morph from paper to the big screen.
Click to expand...

This is objectively untrue. Let's take it, one individual at a time, assuming a union shoot...

The camera operator will collect his paychecks, and after project's end will enjoy medical and retirement benefits based upon his participation in the project (assuming that he's vested).

The actor will collect her paychecks, and after project's end will enjoy her SAG coverage (similar to the camera op's), plus residuals for life.

The burger flipper works for a catering contractor, is almost certainly non-union, and collects nothing past a weekly paycheck.

The toilet cleaner works for a maintenance contractor, is almost certainly non-union, and collects nothing past a weekly paycheck.

The director collects her fee, and after project's end will enjoy the same sort of benefits as the actor (medical+retirement+residuals), on top of which she may have the opportunity to negotiate for points, on top of which her name is attached to the final product and is therefore useful in corralling future work.

There are other ways in which these various positions are basically incomparable, in terms of their respective stakes in a project, but I think that the broad strokes get the idea across.
 
brianluce said:
Your words are plain as day. They say what they say.

I'm not dumping on anyone. To the contrary, I'm sticking up for writers.

We've got contrasting views in regards to the value of their work. I see writers as the primary architects, you see them as spokes in a wheel. To each his own.
Click to expand...


You might want to double check what 'plain as day' really means.


You said 1) scripts aren't necessary and 2) all members of a production are equally iimportant. Here, again, is your post:

" Originally Posted by alex whitmer

Every role, from camera operator, to actor, to burger flipper, to toilet cleaner, to director has an equal stake in seeing the screenplay morph from paper to the big screen.

There is such thing as guerrilla filmmaking that often works unscripted. Success varies.

First of all, your original comment back on page three was this ...

It's no wonder you don't think writers deserve a fair salary, afterall, even burger flippers, according you, "Has an equal role" and in actual fact, according to you, a successful film doesn't even need a script.

Lets see if we can get your magic word converter fixed here ...


I said equal stake, not equal role or importance. Having an equal stake in something means everybody wins or loses depending on a film's success.

That means everybody needs to be on board and show up, ready to work. Everybody! Actors, cleaning crews, electricians, caterers, costume and set designers, PAs, etc.

On a philisophical level, yea, I believe we all share an equal value/importance. Don't you?

I'm sick of hearing 'hey man, if it wasn't for the actor, or the writer, or the producer, or the fricken burger flipper, there would be no film. BS! Subtract any one part, or all but one, and you have either less than you hoped for, or nothing at all. FACT!


And now this ...

There is such thing as guerrilla filmmaking that often works unscripted. Success varies.

You said that I said ...

1. scripts aren't necessary

2. and in actual fact, according to you, a successful film doesn't even need a script.


Go back and read what I said. How you got what you got is pure magic!


And now for your third assanine comment ...

It's no wonder you don't think writers deserve a fair salary


Show me verbatim where I said that.

I'm a writer, and I feel we should be paid our worth. All I said was is that I don't agree with the methods / tactics of striking because it hurts so many peripheral players (I retract my 'little people' comment with apologies). Some of you are truly regretful, but see no other option. Others really don't give a rat who gets hurt, for after all if it wasn't for the (insert role), their job wouldn't exist in the first place.

That's my issue.

Trust me, Iv'e been screwed and it is no fun. I choose, however, to represent myself when this happens.

Writers are the primary architects, I agree. But I also agree they are part of a bigger game plan, thus making us a spoke in the wheel of the whole.

You can write all the scripts you want, but they are nothing but paper until the next spoke picks it up and turns the wheel.

Get off your high horse.

The defense rests.

a

www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com
www.guerro.wordpress.com

.
 
Last edited:
alex whitmer said:
Having an equal stake in something means everybody wins or loses depending on a film's success.
Click to expand...

It sure doesn't.

If a movie bombs, I mean just without-a-splash disappears, that's bad news for the director and the producers and the writer and cast. It's absolutely indifferent news (in terms of revenues and benefits) to below-the-line crew. Being a scenic foreman on a movie that tanks, is not anywhere near bad news for your professional stock as being executive producer, on a movie that tanks.
 
When movies tank, the most visible players take the biggest hit for it. However, when the indusrty as whole suffers from a run of bad management, crappy movies, or whatever, the whole industry feels it.

The more the machine works at peek performance, the more everyone even remotely attached to the biz, either by direct employment or by cottage indusrtry, also wins.

Get enough snafus, and the industry implodes, and everyone needs to find a new line of work.

In all fairness, toilet cleaners can clean toilets just about anywhere. True. And I doubt any one cleaner will make a difference in a film's succeess or draw power, but the fact that they are there makes the machine work just a little better, and that contributes to the over success of any production.

Next time you are in a restroom, thank the cleaner. It only takes a second, and it makes a big difference to be noticed and appreciated.

You'll be glad you did.

alex

www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com
www.guerro.wordpress.com
 
Sorry bud, I meant in general. Not you specifically. Most don't.

Some years ago there was a big stink (no pun) about office building cleaners on strike, and many mentioned top-dollar execs wouldn't even flush toilets.

Some kind of superiority complex I guess.

A
 
Alex, you said, "There is such thing as guerrilla filmmaking that often works unscripted. Success varies."

So, according to you, UNSCRIPTED FILMMAKING OFTEN WORKS!!!! If unscripted filmmaking works then scripts are not always necessary!!!

Your statements speak for themselves. You can use the "Edit" function to change what you said but in the meantime your words are pretty clear.
 
I see where the confusion is. 'works' can be read two ways.

Works, as in it can be successful, or works as in the process.

I should have said ''There is such a thing as guerrilla filmmaking that is often filmed unscripted. Success varies''

I assumed since it was followed by 'Success varies'' you would understand it to be the latter.

Also, note the term ''guerrilla filmmaking''. Not all film is in this category. I'm taking about ONE approach, not all. Read, dude.

No need for the edit button.

And what about my other comments that you reworked in your own image? Ball's in your court. You made a claim, now back it up.

If you want we can take this PM to save your from public humiliation. Probably best anyways. The Mods would appreciate I'm sure.

No, I feel strongly that the best films come from good scripts, and then a director who knows what he or she is doing. That is followed by great performances, lighting, music, editing, sets and costumes, maybe a burger flipper or two, etc.

On the flip side, 'unscripted' has a long and respectable history. It's called improv, and it is still much a part a good film. Good actors can AD LIB scenes with panache.

Alex

www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com
www.guerro.wordpress.com
 
Last edited:
brianluce said:
top foreign talent ends up in Hollywood.
Click to expand...

Not 100% true. They may work on a film or two, but they don't 'end up' in HW. Not all of them, either by fate or by choice. Not to burst your paradigm, but there are vibrant film industies outside HW, and not everyone wants to work in the US, and not everyone wants the giltz.


Imagine being an A lister and the freedoms that you lose. You can't go anywhere or do anything without the F'n paparotz on you. No thanks.

Heck, there are many, many actors in the US that remain B actors by choice as well. They make a good living, and still retain their 'freedom'.

Maybe you should also define 'top talent'. Google 'German actors', or 'Bollywood actors' sometime, and you'll see lots of faces that have never been seen in HW.

HW is not the mecca it once was, and the trend will continue. I'll even stick my neck out and say in the not-too-distant-future, you will see a number of US actors looking for - and wanting - work in foreign film industries.

I for one do not mind subtitles. If it's a good story, it's worth the effort.

To Live, out of China, is a great story and beautifully fimed.

a

www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com
www.guerro.wordpress.com


.
 
alex whitmer said:
well. They make a good living, and still retain their 'freedom'.

Maybe you should also define 'top talent'. Google 'German actors', or 'Bollywood actors' sometime, and you'll see lots of faces that have never been seen in HW.



a

www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com
www.guerro.wordpress.com


.
Click to expand...

I think I speak for Americans and all civilized people of the free world when I say that what gets made in Bollywood hopefully STAYS in Bollywood. Sometimes a billion Indians CAN be wrong.
 
And of course let's not forget Korea, one of the few countries where the domestic film industry actually outcompetes American film. There's plenty of stars there that you won't see in Hollywood. Why do you think they're remaking My Sassy Girl with American actors?
 
brianluce said:
I think I speak for Americans and all civilized people of the free world when I say that what gets made in Bollywood hopefully STAYS in Bollywood. Sometimes a billion Indians CAN be wrong.
Click to expand...

I'd hate to think you are inferring that India and it's people are uncivilized. Are you?

And no, you don't speak for all 'civilized' people of the 'free' world, at least not where I come from. You speak for a small minority of xenophobic wipes.

Define 'civilized' for us.

Last time I did a tally on who's who in America, Asian Indians had the highest level of education qualifications (Masters and PhD), and the highest median incomes of all other race groups, including Euro-Americans.

I know what you're thinking ... 'yea, they had to come to America to do it.' Well, guess what, the internet has changed all that, and that brain power and money is now behind Bollywood, and Bollywood is and will be a force to be reckoned with, like it or not.

Welcome to the new world order.

America is no longer the leader of the free (civilized?) world, and Hollywood is no longer the only game in town. Either make adjustments in your thinking and planning, or get left behind.

Any casual 101 perusal of history will show that when things become over-regulated and over-priced (Hollywood), people go elsewhere for their business needs.

You are in serious need of a Dr. Phil 12 step program to overcome your arrogance. It's gone from cute, to irritating, to racist.

Also, you still have not addressed the comments afore mentioned.

Now for those who care ...

Filmmakers of the future, read all you can on the changes coming to the film industry. Embrace it and capitalize on it.


Bollywood news ...

http://www.netkushi.com/news/index.php?action=show&type=story&id=3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bollywood

German film industry ...

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1435447,00.html

Some blurbs on French film ...

http://www.understandfrance.org/France/FrenchMovies.html

http://www.festival-cannes.fr/index.php/en

By the way, the film Houndog was, I believe, released first in France because the American (free world) right had such a hissy fit about it.

Latvian film news ...

http://www.citypaper.ee/paper/articles/4251/

And China ...

(Even Warner Brothers sees the opportunities)

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-11/18/content_392598.htm

http://english.cri.cn/811/2006/03/30/53@69285.htm

And this on Japan and Asia by the Hollywood reporter ...

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/search/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000847358

Lets not forget Mexico's 16 Oscar wins or nominations ...

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/159361/mexicos_film_industry_enjoys_oscar.html

I think at this point we need to end this discussion, Brian. While I respect everyone's right to have their own opinions and express them freely, your comment on India is positively Neanderthal.

Best of luck in your career.

alex

www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com

www.guerro.wordpress.com


.
 
Last edited:
As I stated earlier, film is a snapshot of any given filmmaker, and of the given cuture from which it originates

It has always been that way. Bollywood is a 'snapshot' of India, and it's people and culture.

Critiquing the films on whatever merits you want is one thing. Purpoting to speak for all 'civilized' people of the 'free' world is quite another. India is both civilized and free, so he must be speaking for them as well.

He followed that with 'a billion Indians CAN be wrong'. Wrong about what?

And can assumes it's possible, but not absolute, so there is still a reasonable doubt.

Anyone serious about being a solid filmmaker in the not-too-distant future needs to pay attention to Bollywood, just like anyone wanting to design good and great automobiles needs to watch what Japan, Korea, and Germany are doing.

It's just good policy.

Who here remembers the first Datsuns(now Nissan)? Odd little cars, a bit clumsy, but a good value. Today however, Japan produces some of the best cars ever built, and at the very least, force other manufacturing countries to better their own designs and technology.

The EXACT same thing is happening to the film industry right now. Get on board, or watch from the sidelines.

Just to keep on top of things, rent a foriegn movie once a week. Laugh at the crudeness, or the performances, or whatever, but rest assure the ugly ducklings are well on their way to becoming swans.

Just to clarify, few are actually crude, or have poor performaces, etc. They are however, cultuarally distinct, and may require the pessimistic viewer to set aside personal issues and preconceived ideas of what film ought to be.

It ain't all Kansas.

Just a tip.

I'm working on my big book of predictions. I will share it in a day or two.

Alex

www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com
www.guerro.wordpress.com



.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top