AC90: Strange XLR, Audio Switch behavior

M

MathewM

Active member
Let me see if I can explain this:

When I connect a wireless mic using the XLR input (either channel) and push record then the CH1 and CH2 switches don't work. In other words, while recording I cannot switch back and forth between the Internal Mic and external Mic. So if I want to use my wireless mic, I have to make sure that the correct switch is on before I start recording. Everything works fine when I'm in stand by mode. What is going on here? What am I missing? I never had a problem with this using my DVX100.
 
Maybe someone else who owns the AC90 can confirm this for me. With an external mic connected to the XLR try switching the CH1 and CH2 switches between the onboard and external mics while recording to see what happens.
 
Hey Matthew,

Interesting observation, I just did a test with my Sennheiser wireless lav kit and my AC90 and sadly I can confirm the same issue. Started rolling and tried to switch from my wireless lav to the internal mic and flipping the audio channel switch did not have any effect, until I stopped recording. Definitely a bit of an annoyance.
 
ELN614 said:
The more and more I read about the AC90.... the more I learn how many short comings it has.
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Yup, I've had the camera a few weeks now and the laundry list keeps growing. However keeping in mind the price point, to me there is nothing that even compares. No regrets.
The body alone is worth the price of admission. I think the AC90 body actually sets it up for disappointment because people see the body (and 3 rings) and they assume it's going to perform more like a 1/3" camera like an hvx/dvx/hmc I've heard the term "there's no such thing as a free lunch" on this forum a few times now and this camera is certainly a good example of that. It has some shortcomings but as Barry mentions, knowing what they are allows you to work within them. It is tough working with nicer gear at work and then "downgrading" to this puppy. I considered the AC130 but for me personally I wasn't willing to fork over $3500 for a camera that still shoots to AVCHD. I'd rather save for another year and pony up to a higher bitrate camera. The plus side of having a camera like this is it really has forced me to study Barrys book and truly start to understand the different scene settings and how they work. Thus far it has been an awesome learning experience that I probably wouldn't have embarked on had I had something that looked great out of the box.
 
The audio setup is indeed strange!! Especially the XLR circuitry ..I sold both my HMC82's last year and was about to order 2 x AC-90's when I discovered that you cannot have the XLR's in auto at all ...it only supports manual levels and sadly at wedding receptions the ambient audio goes up and down like a yoyo with quiet music followed by loud music so one would be constantly changing levels which is totally impractical. Then again even at the very low price point surely Panny would have just kept the same audio circuitry that is present in the HMC cameras ...maybe the 130/160/90 series are designed by a different team who never worked with the HMC cameras. I just had to go to Sony EA-50's which really did have everything that worked as it should BUT they are double the price. It still is an amazing camera for the price point so you simply need work-arounds
 
No doubt, auto audio for situations like that is invaluable. Imagine missing a crucial shot because you were busy fiddling with your ambient sound levels...beyond frustrating!
 
ELN614 said:
The more and more I read about the AC90.... the more I learn how many short comings it has.
Click to expand...

This particular issue is really stupid. It's one thing to omit a feature like the waveform monitor or timecode burn in favor of you buying a more expensive camera. But to purposely cripple a switch that should be fully functional in record mode is just frustrating. My wedding last weekend got screwed up because of this. Luckily I had a backup recorder on the groom or otherwise I would of had terrible audio for the vows. Panasonic is aiming the AC90 at the event crowd. People who film events need the ability to switch audio Channels on the fly. If I'm filming a single camera live event I can't be stopping the camera just to switch audio channels. Really poor on Panasonic's part. This should be an easy firmware fix, but somehow I doubt Panasonic cares about fixing it. Maybe if enough of us protest. At this point in time I cannot recommend the Panasonic AC90 for any use.
 
How frequently do you need to switch between int/ext during recording? Because I think I can safely say in my 10+ years of using these Panasonics, I've never done that. Never even occurred to me that someone would do that. Surely you'd be paused between recordings when switching the audio source! What is an example scenario of when you'd need to switch from external to internal during recording?
 
Barry, you must not do weddings. I use the on-camera mic for sections of the ceremony and then switch to the wireless mic for the vows. Makes for doing in-camera edits much easier as you don't have to worry about mixing the audio in post. In the past with a camera like the DVX100 it was very easy.
 
I have used wireless mic + hmc80 and never had a reason to change from wireless mic to internal mic while recording. So, people this is not an issue.
 
Mathew said:
Barry, you must not do weddings. I use the on-camera mic for sections of the ceremony and then switch to the wireless mic for the vows. Makes for doing in-camera edits much easier as you don't have to worry about mixing the audio in post. In the past with a camera like the DVX100 it was very easy.
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it is easier if you use channel 1 for ambient sound and channel 2 for vows. When edit the audio, will not take a long time to just keep the vows part and delete/mute the ambient sound.
 
When I still had my HMC80's I had a little switch box on the camera with 2 x XLR inputs that allowed me to switch a 2nd wireless mic and the on camera shotgun (never the onboard mic!) back and forth between Channel 2 ...Channel 1 had the groom's receiver and I had the 2nd transmitter at the lectern where the readings were done ...so I start the ceremony with the groom mic running and the on camera mic running and when it's time for readings, I switch from the on camera mic to the 2nd receiver and when they are over it's back to the on camera mic ... with ceremonies here the priest is away from the couple right up front and very close to my camera so I get away with using an on camera shotgun ..I'd rather put a 3rd wireless on the priest but they normally refuse. I cannot see any reason to have to switch the camera inputs at all if you are only using 2 mics ...just run the groom into Channel 1 and the on camera mic into Channel 2 .... using any camera's onboard internal mic is bad news for any wedding!!
 
Mathew said:
Barry, you must not do weddings. I use the on-camera mic for sections of the ceremony and then switch to the wireless mic for the vows. Makes for doing in-camera edits much easier as you don't have to worry about mixing the audio in post. In the past with a camera like the DVX100 it was very easy.
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No, never did weddings. Did a lot of convention work and live events like that many years ago, but never did weddings... so you're doing an all-in-camera, no-editing wedding? When I did events I would put an external mic on one channel and the internal on the other channel, and was always covered at all times. But I guess if you're trying to get the finished product out the door with no editing, then that wouldn't really be an option. But if you're doing just any type of post at all, you should be able to just duplicate the left (internal) mic channel for the entire program except for the vows, where for that section you'd duplicate the right channel...
 
Hi Mathew,

So why would you not for instance have a shotgun on L channel and wireless on R channel, for the duration of the ceremony, and then you can mix them in post? Switching back and forth (if you could) would put an obvious glitch in the audio as well as completely changing the sound quality. That coming from 20+ years of wedding videography background.

EDIT: Oops, didn't see second page where others already suggested this.

Thanks

Jeff
 
I've never used a shotgun mic. Listen, I know when it comes to wedding video, opinions tend be pretty hard lined on what determines good quality. I've never once had any bride complain about audio quality in the hundreds of weddings that I have filmed. I put a wireless lav on the groom, a wireless on the podium and then utilize the on-cam mic for the rest of the ceremony. I never had a problem with this with exception to the occasional drop out. I want to carry the least amount of gear on the wedding day and the spend the least amount of time tweaking in post. That's how you make money doing weddings. At least that's how I look at it. I'm sure all of you have various different ways of going about it and your opinions are just as valid as mine. My gripe is with Panasonic stripping away the ability to switch audio channels while recording using the AC90 because it throws off the way I have been filming wedding ceremonies for the past ten years with my DVX cameras.
 
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