sticky focus ring in cold weather

puredrifting said:
If you guys want to split hairs...

Panasonic AG-HPX170P Operators Manual

Page 125 Specifications

Ambient Operating Temperatures
0 degrees Celsius to 40 degrees Celsius (32 degrees Farenheit to 104 degrees Farenheit)

It's great that the DVX and HVX operate well under freezing temperatures but if shooting in freezing temperatures was a large part of my work, I would have researched this before buying. The 170 is what it is and the construction of it isn't going to change for you. I just don't want to see 170 pictures from Panasonic showing it being used in the Iditarod like the 200 was unless it is enclosed in a heated jacket.

I know, boo, hiss, but if you are a professional, the burden is always on the buyer to make sure that the product will perform to the specifications and in the situations you need in your particular case.

Dan
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Yes, I agree to a point.

You would assume that it would behave as well, if not better than the HVX, seeing that it's a new camera on the market. This issue never crossed my mind because I have never had it happen on any other camera that I have owned. The problem is specific to the HPX170 and the HMC150.

I understand that this will most likely go untouched, but it's a bit disappointing to get a camera only to find out that the focus ring is more difficult to use even in 32 degree temps, that's not even cold, and it was NEVER an issue with the HVX200 at any temperature. You would expect the focus ring to behave good at 32 degrees. And I'm pretty sure all cameras have the same operating temps listed in the manuals give or take a few degrees.

If I would have known how badly the HPX170 focus ring functions in somewhat cold temperatures, I would have never ever bought this camera.

If you don't shoot in cold weather, you don't have to deal with this on a daily basis. When you're out shooting in semi cold temps, and the focus ring becomes stuck, it will cause issues and change the way you shoot.

Now if all the Panasonic cameras had this problem, I wouldn't be taking all this time to raise the issue.

Again, I will post this. I wish I would have had an HVX with me to do a side by side comparison in the field. This isn't normal. It gets so stuck that I can push the whole camera along my slider by the focus ring. If that were an HVX on there, the ring would be turning freely. And when you finally apply enough pressure, the ring "snaps" free, hardly smooth at all. Fine adjustments are not possible in cold weather without having to jar the focus ring loose.
http://a1.video.blip.tv/0990006412415/Horner218-stickyFocusRing435.mov
 
I can totally see where you are coming from, that is a bummer.

If I were in your boat and did live and work in the cold and I needed to shoot, I would probably sell my 170 and get an HVX200A. I would miss some of the features of the 170 but focus is pretty elementary. Or I would look into one of the small electronic focusing units.

Its a drag but what are you gonna do?

Good luck,

Dan
 
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I recently picked up an HPX-170 and did some night shots couple days ago and noticed that the focus knob was stuck...once unstuck it was very tight.

It couldn't have been less than 40 degrees out. Is this something that owners are going to have to get used to?

I've read the previous articles and saw the recommendation to acclimate the camera...but for this time of the year night shooting?
 
Yooni-Bomber said:
I've read the previous articles and saw the recommendation to acclimate the camera...but for this time of the year night shooting?
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That recommendation holds no water.. Acclimation will not improve the focus ring performance on the camera. The focus ring on the 170/150 was poorly designed and does not perform in moderately cold temperatures. If it really bothers you, sell it asap..
 
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Yooni-Bomber said:
I recently picked up an HPX-170 and did some night shots couple days ago and noticed that the focus knob was stuck...once unstuck it was very tight.

It couldn't have been less than 40 degrees out. Is this something that owners are going to have to get used to?

I've read the previous articles and saw the recommendation to acclimate the camera...but for this time of the year night shooting?
Click to expand...

If you have some time, you should read all the posts in this thread. We have made some very good arguments but they aren't getting addressed, and it will stay that way most likely.

Basically, what I feel we are being told by Panasonic is, to bad, deal with it.
 
Yooni-Bomber said:
It couldn't have been less than 40 degrees out. Is this something that owners are going to have to get used to?
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Basically, yes. I've talked to several Panasonic engineers here and while I have explained the situation very thoroughly, the response is basically that it cannot be changed. So, it is the way it is.
 
Barry_Green said:
Basically, yes. I've talked to several Panasonic engineers here and while I have explained the situation very thoroughly, the response is basically that it cannot be changed. So, it is the way it is.
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That's incredibly frustrating.

Seems to me like their R and D may have slipped up on this one? I feel like the new design took a step back from the HVX200's.
 
Wow, this thread really makes me want to do a side-by-side test with my DVX and HPX170 in a freezer since I didn't notice the problem first hand during winter. I'll try to do the test during the weekend and post the results here!
 
Thanks for enquiring the issue with Panasonic Barry. They have vastly disappointed me. I've always had good experience with the Panasonic brand going back tot he SVHS days and up until the DVX.. not anymore.. My HMC has the focus ring and audio pop problems, both of which are major issues. They screwed up immensely engineering this camera and won't fix what they've screwed up. My dealings with Panasonic rep on this issue obviously hasn't been satisfactory either.
 
I totally agree with you, I am from Ohio and we get some pretty cold weather..
I've filmed alot of snowboarding as well. Everytime i take it outside under 45degrees F it just sticks and makes it tough to focus. The focusing is not impossible but it is a pain.

I freaked at first thinking it was broken but realized it was fine when i brought it inside. Its not only your camera, mine has been doing it since day 1.
 
puredrifting said:
What are the audio pop problems with the HMC-150? Haven't been on that board much.

Dan
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the audio pops even with the level turned down low and and the time of the pop, the audio level did not peak. Happens with onboard mic, external XLR mics, and also line-in. Really another horrible problem with the HMC. People have been relying on external recorders to capture audio separately.
 
Wow, that's no good. I am surprised, I thought that they lifted the entire audio chain directly from the HPX170, which is a good sounding camcorder.

Have there been any successful repairs under warranty?

Dan
 
I haven't tried yet.. my season is starting in a few weeks.. when I have some down time I'll look into getting it looked at under warranty.. Although I'm hesitant of letting them opening my camera fixing a problem they don't admit.. probably will do more damage than help.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=165151

I should add that it only occurs with loud sound sources, not that's an adequate explanation for the problem or anything.. at least it doesn't happen in 100% of the scenarios.
 
Please forgive me however, I have to make the statement and ask the question;

I was on an Engagement Video Shoot at Coney Island in New York (April 19th) and I noticed the focusing issue immediately. I could not get the focus ring to work properly. It was stiff and just wouldn't give me the accuracy I needed. I drove back to Connecticut in tears. I've owned the DVX100b and the HVX200. I could shoot in any low temp extreme with the HVX200. This problem has got me very concerned about next winter.

This is what I'd like to know from Panasonic as well as the opinions of the DVXUser Community;

Will they revise this issue/problem/drawback in the next revision? and if so, would Panasonic consider giving us current HPX170 owners a trade in/up rebate towards an HPX170 (A)/next revision.
 
NC17z said:
This is what I'd like to know from Panasonic as well as the opinions of the DVXUser Community;

Will they revise this issue/problem/drawback in the next revision? and if so, would Panasonic consider giving us current HPX170 owners a trade in/up rebate towards an HPX170 (A)/next revision.
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Jan keeps referring to this degradation in performance as a "difference" between the DVX/HVX and the 170/150.. So it sounds like Panasonic doesn't consider this as a design/production flaw in their cameras, when it obviously is. With that attitude, I doubt they will offer any type of trade-in value that is worthwhile to keep pissed-off owners from going to another brand with better assurances of minimally expected performance.
 
does anyone still have any of the marketing materials for the HPX-170, does it show anyone with an HPX-170 in cold environments? or mention shoots where it was used in extreme environments? One of the big selling points about p2 is the environmental conditions are more forgiving than tape, but that doesn't really mean squat when the camera itself malfunctions in the same conditions. If we can find anything like that in their press/marketing materials we could consider a class action suit.
 
monday1313 said:
does anyone still have any of the marketing materials for the HPX-170, does it show anyone with an HPX-170 in cold environments? or mention shoots where it was used in extreme environments? One of the big selling points about p2 is the environmental conditions are more forgiving than tape, but that doesn't really mean squat when the camera itself malfunctions in the same conditions. If we can find anything like that in their press/marketing materials we could consider a class action suit.
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Regarding the 170: http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wc...8125519917&surfModel=Content04102008125519917

Fully solid-state, the two-slot HPX170 is a 1080p capable camcorder that offers the compelling advantages of P2 technology including: no moving parts unlike tape, hard disk drive, or disc-based systems; instant random access to recorded HD or SD content; a faster IT compatible file-based workflow; and the ability to operate in harsh environments with resistance to temperature extremes, shock and vibration.
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Regarding the 150: http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wc...8010809224&surfModel=Content04102008010809224

Panasonic’s AVCCAM camcorder line-up brings the benefits of solid-state recording to budget-conscious professionals. Like digital still photography, recording onto SD/SDHC cards offer a fast and simple, file-based workflow with ultra-reliable performance and resistance to shock, vibration and extreme temperatures and weather. SD and SDHC memory cards are inexpensive and widely available and can be reused repeatedly. Since AVCHD records video as digital data files, content can be transferred and stored on affordable, high-capacity hard disk drives (HDD) and optical storage media and transferred to future storage media as technology advances.
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Panasonic also had a website dedicated to the P2 and Iditarod.. It's no longer up though... http://www.videography.com/article/56092

Here are some Panasonic articles alluding to superior performance of P2-based camcorders in cold environments: http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wc...8033646486&surfModel=Content09262008033646486

http://blog.digitalcontentproducer....anasonic-p2-hd-solid-state-ag-hvx200-cameras/



From: http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wc...8125519917&surfModel=Content04102008125519917 Obviously alluding to the fact that P2 HD based products can operate at physical limits greater than tape or optical-disc based acquisition products.

About P2 HD

P2 HD all solid-state products offer high-definition recording without the mechanical wear and environmental limitations of tape, hard disk, and optical disc based systems. P2 HD ensures the highest
reliability, especially in challenging conditions of extreme temperature range, shock, and vibration. P2 HD products provide a significant reduction in maintenance costs, longer useful product life, and immediate access to recorded video (no need to digitize, ingest or create proxy video files) and metadata.
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