Steadicam Flyer purchase?

F

FatBird19

Well-known member
Me and my friends are starting a production company. Our equipment is limited, so we'd be working mostly on rentals for now until we save up enough money.

When that time comes, I was thinking about getting a Steadicam flyer.


We're mostly looking into weddings, which at this point requires camera rentals and steadicam rentals if we want to keep things smooth. When the time comes, we'll buy either a camera or a steadicam so we don't have to keep renting.
My question is, do Steadicam's depreciate in value?
Reason I'm wondering is becuase I know that if I buy an HVX now, it will be cheaper later. Same goes for the P2 cards. So if I'm renting on someone else's dollar, then I don't really care how many times I have to rent a camera.

But do new steadicams get cheaper over time, or do they stay basically the same price?
If they're basically always the same price, then I'd probably go for the steadicam and continue to rent cameras.


(also, for anyone thant knows, how many lbs of camera can a steadicam flyer support?)
 
First, a steadi-cam requires some practice so renting one with no experience for a wedding may not be practical. IMO, a steadicam might be overkill for most weddings (unless you're shooting in Kennebunkport or Beverly Hills or something).

A Steadicam would depreciate the second after you bought it. And it would only be worth what someone else is willing to pay for it later. Since it's kind of a high-ticket item, the used steadicam market is likely a buyer's market.

Here are the specs on the Flyer:

http://www.steadicam.com/videoFlyer.html

You should check out this new website called www.google.com -- it's awesome.
 
Fatbird,
Steadicams do tend to last and retian their value longer than cameras. You will be able to Sell a well kept Steadicam Flyer for a good price a few years down the road.
However, it does take a lot to learn Steadicam so you should consider carefully if that's what you want to do. If it is, then Great. If you have access to *a* camera (anything) you can use that to practice steadicam and then rent your productio camera. Renting Steadicam to practice gets really expensive very quickly. So there's another benefit to owning one there.

Tough call though.

Comon sense says to get a camera first, but if you are going to speicalize in Steadicam (and you don't do it without specilaizing in it to a degree anyway), then you really do need to own one. If it's any indication, I don't own a video camera at the moment, but I'm about to drop $20k on a Steadicam.

Whatever you decide, first rent *both* and give the Steadicam a try. - best yet, takea steadicam workshop first to see what you are getting into.


Then, the bottom line: Steadicam will be a lot of work to do well - and attending a workshop is also highly recomended - and can be a bit of a risk, but if thats what you want to do, then go for it full on and buy the rig and rent the cameras as you need. If Steadicam isn't the primary goal, then buy the camera and work with that. And hire a Steadicam operator seperately when you need it.

- Mikko
 
I think your question is, "If I wait a few months/years, will the cost of purchasing a new Steadicam Flyer become cheaper?" The answer is no. Good choice, by the way. The Flyer is the best of the bunch among the mid-line stabilizers.
 
NBCshooter said:
I think your question is, "If I wait a few months/years, will the cost of purchasing a new Steadicam Flyer become cheaper?" The answer is no.
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Ok, that's what I wanted to know.
I know that cameras like the HVX on the other hand (and P2) will get cheaper. Even if I have to rent the camera, I really don't mind as long as it's on my client's dollar. And while I'm essentially getting free practice with the camera, it gets cheaper as I save money to buy it eventually.

Obviously the most favorable option is being able to buy the camera, steadicam, and whatever else I need, but at this point I'm saving money and I don't have enough just to spend, spend, spend.
Since, as you confirmed, the Steadicams never go down in price, I figure it makes the most sense to purchase it as soon as possible.

It's probably better for my first purchases to be the items I need that don't depreciate in time, and rent the ones that do until I have money.

On that note, I've also heard that the store prices for new Arri 650s and full Arri light kits don't really ever go down either (nor can I ever find them used). Is this true?
 
I own both a Steadicam Flyer and the HVX-200. My advice: buy the camera and become proficient with it--you will be able to sell your services sooner. A lot of people think they can buy a stabilizer then just strap it on and go . . . NOT!!! If you think you want to get into steadicam then you should start with taking a workshop. A workshop will give you some insites in regard to what you are (or may) be getting into, and help you decide if you wish to continue. You will not come out of a workshop as an operator but will have been taught some of the basics which you will then be able to apply in the months ahead to PRACTICE. Do yourself and professional operators (I am not speaking of myself) a favor . . . don't go out trying to sell yourself as a steadicam operator until you have begun to master the equipment otheriwise you (and your paying client) will probably be disappointed. Not to mention that your reputation will follow you for a long time.

I bought my Flyer before my HVX, but that's because the camera was not available. I had a DVX100 prior to that.

As long as your not buying your camera or stabilizer to use for a week, then to sell it you should be fine--they'll both depreciate, but not that much. These are just my thoughts -- It's your decision to make . . .

Good Luck!
 
dregenthal said:
I own both a Steadicam Flyer and the HVX-200. My advice: buy the camera and become proficient with it--you will be able to sell your services sooner.
Good Luck!
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In your opinion, how necessary do you believe that is? I also own a DVX. How tight is the learning curve between the DVX and HVX?

thanks
 
dregenthal said:
If you think you want to get into steadicam then you should start with taking a workshop. A workshop will give you some insites in regard to what you are (or may) be getting into, and help you decide if you wish to continue. You will not come out of a workshop as an operator but will have been taught some of the basics which you will then be able to apply in the months ahead to PRACTICE. Do yourself and professional operators (I am not speaking of myself) a favor . . . don't go out trying to sell yourself as a steadicam operator until you have begun to master the equipment otheriwise you (and your paying client) will probably be disappointed. Not to mention that your reputation will follow you for a long time.
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I've heard a rumor that good dancers make good steadicam operators. Don't know if there's any truth to that, but anyways. :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

You've got a good point. How much is a steadicam workshop typically? $300?
 
FatBird19 said:
You've got a good point. How much is a steadicam workshop typically? $300?
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The good ones tend to cost more like $2k. There are cheaper Flyer-only courses though.

Might be worth checking out the Glidecam V25 as well. Similar price but higher spec than the Flyer. I'm still trying to get hold of one to test.

Mikko, what rig are you buying?
 
Worshops in deed ar pricy. The top ones are about $2k - and well worth it, I'll be attending another once I can afford it.
The Flyer only worshops are shorter, and thoguh I haven't done one, Peter Abraham who teaches them is a great instructor (tought at the workshop I attended) and I have no doubt the 2-day Flyer workshop are well worth it too. They are about $500. More info at http://www.thesteadicamworkshops.com/

Info on the longer workshops at: www.steadicam-ops.com

Taking a workshop is very much recomended for anyone getting into Steadicam seriously. - and yes in deed a very good idea to do before you get a rig of your own.

Try to the rigs you you are considering before buying if possible. Quick note on the V25 vs Flyer issue: The V25 can carry more, but that alone does notmake it any 'higher spec' or a "better" rig all around. The Flyer still kicks the V25's ass in many categories. A bare HVX is a little light on the Flyer (tried it today) so even with accesories a Flyer will be perfect for the HVX - I'm not going into deep discussion between the rigs here though (been done enough times if you look around).


mmm, I'm buying an Archer.

- Mikko
 
FatBird19 said:
In your opinion, how necessary do you believe that is? I also own a DVX. How tight is the learning curve between the DVX and HVX?thanks
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If you have a DVX100 and know how to use it (and I suspect that you do), you have a good start on the HVX. Still there will be new ground to cover . . . it's not a point & shoot cam. You'll have to work a little harder to get really good focus, there are a lot of different formats, and several new settings to deal with. The camera is more complicated but not difficult to pick up. Plus the fact, as you already know, you have good support here at DVXUSER . . . and Barry's new book should be available in the near future (fingers crossed).

I just meant that you will probably find more opportunities to earn back your investment with the camera than you will with the steadicam . . . at least in the early going.

Regarding your other question . . . I took the Steadicam Operators Workshop in Philly last October. It was $2200 and worth every cent. Some of the guys I attended with may be out there working now . . . I really don't know -- speaking for myself in all honesty, I'm not ready yet. I am sure some pick it up faster than others but it still depends on the amount of effort (practice) you put into it. I got my Flyer in December and had to buy a cheap little palmcorder then hang some extra weight on the sled just to get some practice while waiting for my HVX. That actually worked out for me but personally I think I need another six months of practice . . . maybe a couple free jobs, before I would be comfortable marketing myself as an (flyer) operator. You will have to get input from some of the more experienced guys on that.

No question, there are some shorter programs that cost less and are specifically geared towards the flyer -- Peter Abraham runs a good one and travels around conducting them . . . if you need his e-mail or website pm me. (edit) Okay, don't PM me . . . I did not see Mikko's reply before posting. Thanks Mikko!
 
FatBird19 said:
On that note, I've also heard that the store prices for new Arri 650s and full Arri light kits don't really ever go down either (nor can I ever find them used). Is this true?
Click to expand...
Yup, same deal. Arri lights never seem to get cheaper or ever go on sale. Used Arri Fresnels are rarer still. Seems like we just have bite the bullet and pay the price.
 
NBCshooter said:
Yup, same deal. Arri lights never seem to get cheaper or ever go on sale. Used Arri Fresnels are rarer still. Seems like we just have bite the bullet and pay the price.
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Dang. In that case, what would be a good light kit to save up for? That'll probably be another of our first investments.

For starters, the kit would mostly be used for interview style lighting(4 point lighting).

Any suggestions?
 
for those of you that have used the flyer, how well can you control the yaw? Can you adjust the "tension" for it or whatever?
In a demo that i saw, the footage kept rocking from side to side. I hope it was just bad camerawork.
 
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