State of handheld gimbals in 2022

Lots of good info and observations here. I love the idea of hanging the gimbal on a stand for a locked off shot. I hadn't thought of that.

Are the new DJI gimbals going to be a lot easier to use than my Crane 2, even for lighter weight cameras like the EOS-R? I want to say that I bought it in early 2018. The Crane 2 has been one of my worst gear investments, and that's saying something. Some shooters have gotten good results with theirs but for whatever reason I have been extremely frustrated with mine and really want to avoid going through the same thing again with a new gimbal.

Also, beyond SMM'S monster case, how have people been transporting these, fully built? Can they be seatbelted into cars?
 
I don't hang mine on a stand per se. I screw the stud into the base and the gimbal stands up straight

On lower stands, it works pretty flawlessly. And i can still pan and operate the unit,, albeit not always with the precision and control of a fluid head.. (well,, that's sort of up to your operating skills with the tool.. but I doubt anyone could match their fluid head performance with the gimbal). Tilting I use the joystick and panning you can either turn the handle or use the joystick or a combination.

On very tall stands, the column often sways. It probably wouldn't with a heavy duty stand, but I'm using lightweight stands and 2 sandbags at base. The gimbal keeps the camera pointed straight and level, but if there were foreground elements you would notice a slight parallax shift. Usually when I go up high its to get a clear wide shot and i don't have foreground, and honestly it works out fine

for regular height, I use light stands with a detachable stud, so I can quick release and go mobile in a couple seconds.

I used to seatbelt my ronin-s into the car. Then I got worried about wear and tear and bought soft cases

I got the camrade transporter large case from b&h just cause it was on sale. Fits my ronin-s and a7siii with lens and focus motor and side handle with 7-inch monitor.. doesn't fit my bottom tripod (unless I angle it out the top), so I unscrew that and keep it in a side pocket. Fast enough https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...p_lrg_bl_camrade_transporter_large_black.html

I use a sachtler camporter small for my weebill-s. Same thing- bottom tripod in side pocket or out top. So now my plan for double-fisting weebills is to walk with one while carrying the other (rigged with a different lens) in this shoulder bag https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1115053-REG/Camporter_Camera_Bag_Small_
 
QuickHitRecord said:
When I have tried to use with my EOS-R, I don't see jittering in my footage, just footsteps and some odd swaying. I'm pretty sure that I'm not getting the pan axis dialed in correctly.
Click to expand...

seeing footsteps might be an issue with operating/performance. but odd swaying sounds like a calibration or balance issue. so maybe the footsteps are exaggerated by that issue as well
 
I have a Weebill-S that does its job very well but is a brute of a thing to carry around and use (cue surprise from readers who do video professionally).

I’ve played around with IBIS and stabilised lenses, but they don’t look like a gimbal, at least in my hands.

Has anyone tried a Crane M2 (or similar; what else is out there?) with a very lightweight camera and lens?

I’m thinking of something like a GH5S with 14 mm f/2.5 or a Sony α7C with 24 mm f/2.8 G. But I’m not sure if these set-ups would clear the arms. Maybe in some commonly used positions? Anyone know? They’re pushing the Crane M2’s weight limit of 720 g, too.
 
I think it must be over 2 lb, but whatever it weighs, it’s fine for a dedicated shoot but not for opportunistic walking around with a small camera while doing something else. For me anyway.

Maybe the Crane M2 is not much better. I can’t find its weight on the Zhiyun website.
 
If you look closely at the video there is a fare amount of up and down motion that's being covered up by slowmo. From the many gimbal reviews I have watched over the years while super light is easy on the arms but never as smooth as a heavier gimbal. LIke Al said you'll be limited what lenses you can use. But if making a super light rig is going to allow you use a gimbal then go for it. I built a super light mechanical gimbal back a few years ago with Canon 70d 24mm pancake lens.
 
Had a smallish corporate shoot this week. Director requested the ability to do a bunch of shots with a bit of motion but minimal setup time so we could blast through it (limited time at the location). I thought about a gimbal like an RS2 but I feel that the footsteps in super slow tracking moves would be a problem, as well as highly nuanced pan and tilt correction (since I have spent very little time operating gimbals handheld). I briefly considered my R2 and Inertia Wheels setup, tasking a grip to carry the gimbal while I operated, but for something this fast moving the communication of timing the camera moves would have been inefficient.

My solution was to go back to my roots and rent a small Steadicam for the shoot. I hung up the vest about 11 years ago, so this wasn't a casual decision to make. I built out my A7III with wireless lens control, transmitter and Shogun Inferno for external 4K ProRes recording. With the DZO short zoom, made for a 13 lb payload which fit perfectly on a Steadicam Aero 30.

I had a pretty enjoyable time putting it all together and practicing a little in my garage (see clip below). On the shoot itself, the work on Steadicam expanded considerably and I found myself "mowing the lawn" (i.e. slow dolly moves back and forth) on setup after setup. As expected, my body started talking to me eventually, and i'm definitely a tad sore, but overall it was pretty fun to get back in the saddle. I'd say my operating abilities were maybe at 60% of my fulltime Steadicam days, which was more than I expected, but my stamina was probably down around 20% at best. That said, I'm sure I'd rather wear a rig like this than hand carry a gimbal weighing a third as much--that gets tiring even more quickly.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fbv8sk5d8ixk0ui/aero30.mov?dl=0
 
Nice setup, Charles. And this would certainly yield better results than just about any modern handheld gimbal that I am aware of.

11 years ago, what was your average payload?
 
QuickHitRecord said:
Nice setup, Charles. And this would certainly yield better results than just about any modern handheld gimbal that I am aware of.

11 years ago, what was your average payload?
Click to expand...

The last TV show I did as an operator was one of the first to use the original gen Alexa, so I would guess the camera payload was around 32 lbs with total weight of system around 60.
 
this is very interesting charles.

1) I struggle to find a gimbla with any reasonable response.. and therefor any reasonable ability to hold/compose a frame.

2) my (non existant) steadicam years I never really got a rig that worked proper;ly even though I spent $3k on a follow focus .. which was not the $10k I should hve been spending in 2010 and $2k on a day viewable SD monitor (not the $5k I should have spent) and loads of other money pits for shi_it that basically didnt work.

now I could re assemble my steadicam with accesories I have.. animon transmitter, tilta focus, super light canon R6, and the like.. it would probably be very very good. and I would get that proper response in terms of framing.

hell even my 'blackbird' is worth a revisit with the R6 af and low mass.

Its all in the attic

Ive been holding back on this as the one thing gimbals do is a better horizon than me on a Steadi but with the FPV look a flat horizon is over rated.
 
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I'm not really up to speed on the Steadicam Volt and all of its nuances but many of my colleagues have it and seem to like it. It does seem like the real win is the Steadicam form factor with gimbal-type tech as an assist (aka the Volt) to help tame the inertial forces and help keep a level horizon. It would be interesting if one of the gimbal manufacturers made an inexpensive roll axis stabilizer (similar to what Letus did the with the Helix) for smaller format cameras, that could be bolted onto a small Steadicam type rig. I don't really see it happening.

For me, gimbals are very servicable in the right person's hands and with the correct support gear. I have worked with operators using Movi's/Ronins that are really dialed in and have delivered wonderful results. When the going gets tough they've had me hop on the wheels to take over operating while they pilot the gear, which returns the precision missing in many gimbal shots operated as a one-man band.

I think gimbals really shine when it's all about architecture and wide shots and nuances of framing and responsive adjustment isn't as critical. Getting in close with humans is where the real skill level comes in.

The one thing that really struck me when shooting Steadicam this week is how lovely it is to be able to control and regulate the frame in so many axes at once without requiring anyone else to be involved. Between being a little rusty and having such a light rig I wouldn't say that my physical operating was as precise as I'd like, but I haven't really lost any of my mental approach to framing so I knew where I wanted it to go and the machine wasn't resistant to my getting there. It did remind me of how much fun I had as an operator once I owned the right gear and I had been doing it long enough that I could just focus on the nuances and the shot design (which started around 7 years into my fulltime Steadicam career, and lasted for the next 8 or 9 years until I started to seek out other challenges).



morgan_moore said:
this is very interesting charles.

1) I struggle to find a gimbla with any reasonable response.. and therefor any reasonable ability to hold/compose a frame.

2) my (non existant) steadicam years I never really got a rig that worked proper;ly even though I spent $3k on a follow focus .. which was not the $10k I should hve been spending in 2010 and $2k on a day viewable SD monitor (not the $5k I should have spent) and loads of other money pits for shi_it that basically didnt work.

now I could re assemble my steadicam with accesories I have.. animon transmitter, tilta focus, super light canon R6, and the like.. it would probably be very very good. and I would get that proper response in terms of framing.

hell even my 'blackbird' is worth a revisit with the R6 af and low mass.

Its all in the attic

Ive been holding back on this as the one thing gimbals do is a better horizon than me on a Steadi but with the FPV look a flat horizon is over rated.
Click to expand...
 
With my little gimbals (ronin-s, weebill-s), I feel like it's a bit of a struggle against the nature of the technology to achieve precise framing control and panning timing and speed. Not a totally insurmountable challenge once you're dialed in with a set-up you know and like. But it's true, the best steadicam results will probably be better than the best gimbal results in this area.

As for seeing the bobbing up and down from your footsteps - I don't think it's an issue if you're careful about gliding the unit through the air in a linear path. No, you don't have the steadicam arm helping you out. But it's not a problem unique to gimbal/steadicam. I remember shooting sports b-roll cradling a camera on a zacuto shoulder rig. My colleague said it looked like i was riding on a dolly when i passed sideways through his shot and he showed it to me. Without seeing my legs, it looked like i was rolling through

At close-range, I'm not happy with the amount of handheld shake and waver I get. But i think it's a similar problem on steadicam. I pay close attention to the steadicam shots I see in TV and film and i still see the wavering when there are foreground elements at high magnification

I think my ronin-s system is like 12ish lbs including the gimbal. A bit tiring to carry all day,, but i can hold my arms down and get good camera height thanks to the long center column,, and that that reduces strain. When I'm not shooting, i can rest the base against my hip. It's easy to put it down. I can roll 3-4 hours of footage In a 10-hour day and do it again the next day. This would be ronin-s with a 2nd side handle, 7" monitor, dji focus motor, a7siii and 1 or 2 lbs of lens
 
Abe ..gimbals are like IS.. in that if you pan left a little they dont 'know' if you jiggled left or are turning left.

so the will either not cancel out jiggles or not be resonsive -ts two sides of the same coin.

gimbale would need more AI to be better than that.
 
Charles
This thread is about handheld gimbals (for which I take to mean RS and the like)

My movi is pretty good and I have been working on configuring it 'trinity/steadicam' style for years with a physical gimbal post and v loocks at the bottom - its heavy but with a 'head op' is pretty awesome.

It is a good observation that they (small gimbals) are best for real estate and the like where one is not really adjusting to a human actor.

Ive been doing a corporate real people thing recently and we mixed handheld, ronin an movi .. im still mulling the results and if anything but handheld is worth the time !

S
 
In fact ill link this private at this point the edit is not really started.

we see..
ronin
movi
handheld
and
50p over 25

I think my handheld has the most 'humanity'

https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/676667638

|If we shot again next year.. im still not sure of the tools.

What we do see is that a tripod would probably have killed all of these shots!

I did use a tripod 70-200 for other chapters of the vid.

S
 
morgan_moore said:
Abe ..gimbals are like IS.. in that if you pan left a little they dont 'know' if you jiggled left or are turning left.

so the will either not cancel out jiggles or not be resonsive -ts two sides of the same coin.

gimbale would need more AI to be better than that.
Click to expand...

you can use the joystick to initiate a move. with the ronin-s, I often feather into my move by starting with a slight joystick push and then picking it up with a twist of the handle
 
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