State of handheld gimbals in 2022

[QuickHitRecord]

I've managed to get this far without ever really using a handheld gimbal for paid work. I've been very comfortable working with dollies, sliders, and cranes. Sometimes I wonder if I'm making life harder than it needs to be, especially with the huge leaps in autofocus as of late. It's clear to see that gimbals have introduced a lot of movement that was never possible before without a crew. In the minus column, it also seems like people are adding motion to every shot, regardless of whether it compliments the scene or not. And they seem like they can be quite fiddly and require large and expensive builds to use properly.

I did use the original Movi on a few low-stakes projects when it first came out. I was amazed by the results. But also remember that it took 30-45 mins to build the thing up and the bulky battery didn't last very long. And then a few years later I spent $700 on a Zhiyun Crane 2, which was getting rave reviews at the time. However, in the handful of test shoots I've done, I've never been able to get a result that I'd be comfortable presenting to a client. With a really wide lens, I could probably follow someone and have it look mostly okay in an almost-handheld kind of way, but that's about all I'd be comfortable with. I'm sure I must not be balancing it properly, despite watching a dozen videos on how to do it.

So I'm curious to know from some actual working pros: Do you use gimbals frequently? And if so, for what kind of work and what crew size? Is bobbing up and down from the operator's footsteps still an issue (even while ninja walking)? Have the newer gimbals gotten to the point that they are pretty idiot-proof (because apparently I am an idiot, at least when it comes to the Crane 2)? Are there alternatives to gimbals that you prefer?

 

[ahalpert]

What payloads and cameras are you working with? Was your issue with the unit a problem of shaking/jittering or of visible bobbing when shooting close-range/foreground elements?

i'm a mirrorless-on-gimbal lover, and just because you're on a gimbal doesn't mean you can't get static shots

 

[NorBro]

I got into the gimbal game at a time, maybe 2011, when I remember B&H didn't even have a gimbal section, so I had to check eBay and I bought one from China that I had to literally put together myself. [Facepalm emoji.]

After that experience I was a little intimated by gimbals, lol.

In 2015, I bought a decent ikan which renewed my interest. And I could see they were getting better.

In 2021, I tried the RSC 2 and I fell in love with it and how much the technology had changed.

I'm a gimbal idiot and this one is idiot-proof: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...tabilizer.html

 

[morgan_moore]

A lot to say but too busy to say it.

On the way to workwe Have r6 on movi. And left little ronin rs2 at home as we can’t control it yet.

movi is pretty heavily modded to be usable for quick work- mainly the huge case that is big enough to leave it built with a camera in place
and price of owning that spare camera and lens!

Building on set is a no no for the high pace of this job

movi and remote operator in “cine” build is excellent for slow formal shoots

 

[Guest]

I’m in the same place as you QHR, mostly only used gimbals in crew situations, or with mirrorless style ultra light weight “always on the gimbal” setups.

Best gimbals in no particular order:
- Movi Pro
- Ronin 2 (the BIG one)
- Ronin RS2 (the good little one, not the little little one)

The RS2 is a level up from many of the previous “stick” gimbals. But it is small and lightweight and some of the auxiliary features are meh’, but still useful:
- wireless video to you phone, works
- wireless pan/tilt/roll from your phone, works

I once rigged a Canon C500mkII on the RS2, and not just a C500mkII, but one with a Cine EOS prime, so it was rather front heavy, which required counter weights, so by the time it was fully rigged, the old thing didn’t really like it. Perhaps with an expert tuner, it could have gotten smoother, but still, the whole thing shook if i walked too heavy, because the frame had trouble with that kind of payload. With a lightweight Canon EF Prime the payload might have worked.

The Black magic pocket is wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide, but it works with small counter weights

There is some images of people rigging the Red DSMC/2 upside down on the RS2, which allows them to bare bones rig the DSMC1/2 body and run wired power and hdmi etc unobstructed.

But all in all, the BMPockets and Mirrorless and C70 works best on the RS2.

Underslung the RS2 motors are weaker apparently.


Movi Pro and Ronin 2 are really nice with a crew, but i find them a bit of a commitment when operating alone. YMMV



RS2 on a jib on a dolly track is a real game changer!


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[Peter C.]

I have a commercial coming up where we will be using bmpcc with the RS2 to add motion shots to broll walk and talk and reveals. It has been time consuming building the rig we wanted.

 

[QuickHitRecord]

What payloads and cameras are you working with? Was your issue with the unit a problem of shaking/jittering or of visible bobbing when shooting close-range/foreground elements?

I have a C70 (rigged up, around 8-9lbs) and and EOS-R. With the way that camera tech is developing, I don't foresee ever owning a work camera that's larger than the C70 again. The Crane 2 needs counterweights to work with the C70 and I haven't tried it yet. When I have tried to use with my EOS-R, I don't see jittering in my footage, just footsteps and some odd swaying. I'm pretty sure that I'm not getting the pan axis dialed in correctly.

I'm a gimbal idiot and this one is idiot-proof: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...tabilizer.html

Yes, I've heard that this is the one to get for use with a C70. Idiot-proof is good. Are you using yours with any add-ons, or just as is?

movi is pretty heavily modded to be usable for quick work- mainly the huge case that is big enough to leave it built with a camera in place

I think this is my main problem with gimbals. I can't lose time on a job setting up a gimbal. And then if you are using a zoom and want a tighter shot, or the setup gets jostled in transit, then it might require a time-consuming re-balance.

Movi Pro and Ronin 2 are really nice with a crew, but i find them a bit of a commitment when operating alone. YMMV

Yeah, I don't think I'm up for that. I've been on set with both and they are clearly designed for crews. On a related note, the deadline for sending out 1099s is coming up and I was shocked to see that I only had one for 2020. Hopefully it's just Covid but I do think there will be more and more pressure for OMB shooting for anything shy of a Netflix show, at least in this market. So I am keeping that in mind as I refresh my gear.

I have a commercial coming up where we will be using bmpcc with the RS2 to add motion shots to broll walk and talk and reveals. It has been time consuming building the rig we wanted.

The RS2 seems to be the way to go right now (or just wait). What are you using to build it up? Are you getting the results you were hoping for?

 

[NorBro]

Yes, I've heard that this is the one to get for use with a C70. Idiot-proof is good. Are you using yours with any add-ons, or just as is?

The one others mentioned, the RS 2, would actually be the one to get for that camera because it can hold more. The RSC 2 is pretty much the same thing but can only hold 6.6 lbs, which is pushing it with the C70. (DJI probably shouldn't have named them so similarly.)

Then there are even smaller DJI ones, but they aren't as good as the RS 2 and RSC 2.

I actually don't own one and just rented it twice from LensRentals for a R6 and used it as is.

 

[NorBro]

By the way, and FWIW, in my personal experience there's really no better solution than to have a dedicated lens and camera for a gimbal that's set up in the morning or night before and ready to go for the production.

As we all know, the rigging and unrigging and balancing act is just not always possible with hectic schedules and some individuals and their expectations. It puts a lot of pressure on us as people sometimes stand around and wait.

You still may have to change a lens with the dedicated gimbal camera, but it's not as tedious as moving around a camera to different equipment and places, and strong motors for a relatively lightweight setup could still handle the small discrepancies (meaning something not too far off from the first lens versus switching a regular sized 500g 35mm-ish lens for a 5lb 70-200mm).

 

[Guest]

By the way, and FWIW, in my personal experience there's really no better solution than to have a dedicated lens and camera for a gimbal that's set up in the morning or night before and ready to go for the production.

As we all know, the rigging and unrigging and balancing act is just not always possible with hectic schedules and some individuals and their expectations. It puts a lot of pressure on us as people sometimes stand around and wait.

You still may have to change a lens with the dedicated gimbal camera, but it's not as tedious as moving around a camera to different equipment and places, and strong motors for a relatively lightweight setup could still handle the small discrepancies (meaning something not too far off from the first lens versus switching a regular sized 500g 35mm-ish lens for a 5lb 70-200mm).

Agreed. It has almost become required to own multiple camera bodies, so i hate to see the cripple hammer, as if we all are going to sit on that ONE 1080p 10bit camera for forever. lol.

I think this is my main problem with gimbals. I can't lose time on a job setting up a gimbal. And then if you are using a zoom and want a tighter shot, or the setup gets jostled in transit, then it might require a time-consuming re-balance.



Yeah, I don't think I'm up for that. I've been on set with both and they are clearly designed for crews. On a related note, the deadline for sending out 1099s is coming up and I was shocked to see that I only had one for 2020. Hopefully it's just Covid but I do think there will be more and more pressure for OMB shooting for anything shy of a Netflix show, at least in this market. So I am keeping that in mind as I refresh my gear.

If we buy more than one camera, the risk to reward balance on crippled equipment is a big issue. We need to be able to offset the investment of multiple bodies over a longer period of time. Technology moves fast enough without the cripple hammer.

 

[QuickHitRecord]

The one others mentioned, the RS 2, would actually be the one to get for that camera because it can hold more. The RSC 2 is pretty much the same thing but can only hold 6.6 lbs, which is pushing it with the C70. (DJI probably shouldn't have named them so similarly.)

Ah. Thanks for clarifying. I had no idea there was a smaller, lower payload model. But this brings up a different question. Is it easier to operate and get smoother movements with a smaller gimbal and smaller camera? Or does the old adage of a heavier camera resulting in smoother movements also apply here? And if so, is this furthered with the use of "grip ring" (like the one from Tilta?). If it's all the same, I think I'd probably opt for a smaller camera and save my back and arms. For instance, the EOS-R combined with the 0.71 focal reducer offers enough image quality for a lot of my work, and it doesn't overheat.

 

[Guest]

Ah. Thanks for clarifying. I had no idea there was a smaller, lower payload model. But this brings up a different question. Is it easier to operate and get smoother movements with a smaller gimbal and smaller camera? Or does the old adage of a heavier camera resulting in smoother movements also apply here? And if so, is this furthered with the use of "grip ring" (like the one from Tilta?). If it's all the same, I think I'd probably opt for a smaller camera and save my back and arms. For instance, the EOS-R combined with the 0.71 focal reducer offers enough image quality for a lot of my work, and it doesn't overheat.

Yeah, don’t go for the smaller light SC gimbal, the RS2 will pay for the extra investment due to the ability to go up in weight, or underslung more reliably.

 

[NorBro]

Ah. Thanks for clarifying. I had no idea there was a smaller, lower payload model. But this brings up a different question. Is it easier to operate and get smoother movements with a smaller gimbal and smaller camera? Or does the old adage of a heavier camera resulting in smoother movements also apply here? And if so, is this furthered with the use of "grip ring" (like the one from Tilta?). If it's all the same, I think I'd probably opt for a smaller camera and save my back and arms. For instance, the EOS-R combined with the 0.71 focal reducer offers enough image quality for a lot of my work, and it doesn't overheat.

IMO, I think it's a much more enjoyable experience using a lightweight mirrorless with a great gimbal that can easily handle the weight.

I used the RSC 2 with the R6, but I think you should use the RS 2 for the C70 and not the RSC 2 for the C70.

The old adage does apply, but it's not enjoyable for a difference that likely many will not even notice in the first place, quite frankly. Especially in many final products that have 3-4-5 second gimbal shots and not 30-40-50 second walking gimbal shots. (But if that's what you did by any chance then you'll learn what works best for you.)

 

[Guest]

The Tilta grip ring is overrated. Don’t buy it for the looks, but i can see that some people need/want it.

To me, you lose the advantages of the RS2 if you go that route. I think the monopod+tilta RS power base is the best start, and then build from there based on your own needs.

 

[ahalpert]

Before I had multiple bodies in my current set-up, I was using 3rd party tripod collars on my gimbal lens so I would keep the lens in position on the gimbal and pull the camera off to go to tripod or a different gimbal with a different lens. Everything stayed balanced. But of course, the lens stays tied up on the rig.

Then I moved to a7siii + fx3 on ronin-s and weebill-s. For example, one with a 50 and the other a 70-180.

Now I've bought another weebill-s because it's much lighter than the ronin-s and will be easier to carry 2 weebills around simultaneously. And with my new a7iv, I'll have 3 bodies to fly on them. I like setting up a gimbal on a lightstand for a lockoff as well. You lose the control of a fluid head, but you can take it off and go mobile at a moment's notice. And since the gimbal is self-leveling, I can mount it up 12' on a light stand on problem. Monitor camera and pan the gimbal using smartphone apps

But obviously this whole approach is facilitated by using cheap, lightweight cameras

 

[Peter C.]

The RS2 seems to be the way to go right now (or just wait). What are you using to build it up? Are you getting the results you were hoping for?

My colleague wanted to pull focus wirelessly, which need rails, which need a cage, and wireless video transmitter, etc. We ran a test and the results were great.

 

[NorBro]

There is also a 0.8 lens pitch focus system that DJI has that works without extra rails (works with the system's rod), FWIW.

 

[cpreston]

Ah. Thanks for clarifying. I had no idea there was a smaller, lower payload model. But this brings up a different question. Is it easier to operate and get smoother movements with a smaller gimbal and smaller camera? Or does the old adage of a heavier camera resulting in smoother movements also apply here? And if so, is this furthered with the use of "grip ring" (like the one from Tilta?). If it's all the same, I think I'd probably opt for a smaller camera and save my back and arms. For instance, the EOS-R combined with the 0.71 focal reducer offers enough image quality for a lot of my work, and it doesn't overheat.

I find the lighter setups are easier to handle and work with longer which overcomes the benefit of added inertia from weight. That being said, I full size Ronin with a Ready Rig can get you amazing results, but it is big and takes time to setup. Also, I am currently doing most of my b-roll with a C500 II on a Zhiyun Crane 3s. I find the rear arm very useful for pressing against my shoulder for longer takes.

 

[ahalpert]

Ah. Thanks for clarifying. I had no idea there was a smaller, lower payload model. But this brings up a different question. Is it easier to operate and get smoother movements with a smaller gimbal and smaller camera? Or does the old adage of a heavier camera resulting in smoother movements also apply here? .

I think that the bobbing/wavering of the entire unit (probably only visible with foreground elements) is the same situation as handheld. Heavier camera means more inertia and slower bobbing. But re:the angular rotation of the pan and tilt axes, I don't think size matters. Lighter weight means less arm waver from fatigue. Spreading your hands out into a wider grip is a good thing I think. I have a side handle on my ronin-s for this purpose. If I didn't need to access the joystick and buttons with my thumb, I would use 2 side handles and a wider grip

 

[ahalpert]

Yeah, don’t go for the smaller light SC gimbal, the RS2 will pay for the extra investment due to the ability to go up in weight, or underslung more reliably.

Plus i believe the rs2 is actually lighter weight than the rsc 2. It's win win win