Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Man. Now I feel I have to step in to DEFEND it. It wasn't bad, just not great. Jeez. Oh well. Like they say, "no one hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans."
 
Simply awful. As a lifelong Star Wars fan, this was truly a letdown, and what a bummer of a weekend.

I haven't posted here in a while, but I value DVXuser opinions so I had to check in for the straight dope.

What baffles me is the disparity between the fans and critics rating on Rotten Tomatoes. 93% to 52% (the fan vote keeps dropping!) If you look at the other SW films, the numbers are much more in line. I admit, I specifically made a RT user account to post a 1/2 star review...man, this one pissed me off. And I enjoyed the Force Awakens and LOVED Rogue One.

As for the pro critic voice: "Overly rosy" Yes! what gives? What am I missing? Am I just dead inside? I alternated between douche chills, confusion and boredom (with the occasional nodding off) It hasn't been touched on too much, but the CGI was terrible at times (Canto Bight)...reminiscent of that last Indiana Jones film.

I think we're just getting bombarded with too much Star Wars in too little a time period. It's just the same old, same old. Rebels disguising themselves, cute creatures, light saber duels, remote hideout bases on "unique" planets, AT-ATs....stop the ride, I'm getting off. If I never see the Last Jedi again, I'm cool with it.
 
Upside: My kids really seemed to like it. They've been running around the house in makeshift costumes playing light sabers.

The world doesn't revolve around the whims of a bunch of cranky middle-aged men. :grin:
 
Finally saw the film. Been avoiding this thread for far too long. Spoiler Alert, if anyone really needs that to be said after 70 posts and the movie playing for a few weeks.

My overall disappointment with the film is that I feel that RJ missed the essential nature of what these movies are: Fairy Tales. They are legends, like the Epic of Gilgamesh, Homer's Odyssey, Beowulf, King Arthur. The plots are not the point which is why they are usually quite simple. It is the heart & nature of the characters and their essential truths both positive and negative. The Last Jedi tried to be both The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, with about two or three more films worth of plot threads stuck in there. I mean, just look at how simple the stories of the original trilogy were, yet no one found them particularly boring or tedious. Shoving the kitchen sink into this film not only let it feels bloated but it also took away any of the depthor significance to the actions and events along the way. Why did RJ feel that he needed to wrap up Every. Single. Story. from the last movie?

There were definitely some strong moments in this film, but they often got lost along the way. I mean, Snoke gets killed off (in a rather disappointing way, I might add) and there's still another 30-40 minutes of movie left. Everything Poe did? Pointless. Everything that Finn does? Extra Pointless. Clearly RJ was really interested in the Rey-Kylo relationship, but even that doesn't really go anywhere that feels like it has depth or meaning. At least he made sure to take the sex out of it after the rapey-kinda torture hints from the last film's interrogation scene by inserting the bit where she asks him to put on a cloak to cover up. Her journey feels rather ramshackle and his is a confused mess. I understand that he's tortured inside because it's said so much, but why and what is he struggling to achieve? And Rey is special because she's not special? What the F is that?

I don't have a problem with turning Star Wars on its head a bit. But it's a story about myths so y'all better come up with some fresh myths instead of just bustin' the old ones.

And the movie itself is far too long. Sure it's fun to see everyone abuse General Hux, but it got awfully repetitive. Someone please explain the deeper meaning of Benicio del Toro's character and his entire storyline? I know they needed to give Finn something to do but it was completely superfluous to the rest of the movie ratherthan connecting and making a deeper meaning in any way. Leia as superhero was sure a surprise but then it went nowhere, "Last Jedi" indeed. Yoda had said there was another, so why not let her somehow? And just how much can the point about this one ship being chased be belabored on and on?

There were some great ideas within the film. Kylo & Rey connecting and teaming up, sorta. Chewie not chewing on his dinner was cute. Luke's solution at the end was a very nice touch. The suicide mission slicing everything in half was an impressive cinema moment, but quickly becomes questionable when you wonder why there wouldn't just be endless kamikaze jumps to hyperspace in any given battle, especially if droids could do the piloting.

I could go on and on, just like The Last Jedi did. But suffice to say that I feel the film suffers from a lot of themodern blockbusterism syndrome of piling on ending after ending, mistaking more for better. This was just, well, more.


One last note -- I did enjoy at the end when Poe and Rey introduce themselves to one another (although I don't know why that didn't somehow happen before she went off with Chewie to find Luck in The Force Awakens). The only reason I can think of is because after saying hello they both turn to look at Finn in the distance. At which point I turned to my kid to say "And we're both in love with the same man!" That produced a near-perfect spit-take laugh, so at least I got that going for me.
 
I dont get the hate this film is getting right now. It was more enjoyable then the force awakens, which I really hated(because of the boring character Rey, that lightsaber fight made me want to leave the theatre).

Sure nobody cared about the fluffy animals, the comedy or the sub plots (yep its disney, Lucas should never have sold star wars, even the prequels are 100 times better then this new saga). But I really like the development of Kylo-Ren. Him killing snoke, and the luke skywalker scene were gold. I am rooting for team kylo here. Its possible that Snoke is still alive, and that Kylo needs to turn to the light side and team up with Rey to defeat him. But they did a pretty good job, working with the characters that were set in The force awakens.
 
Disney is not really interested in continuing the saga, they just want to serve reheated star wars leftovers to rabid fans ready to eat up anything Star Wars. Everything is an homage or a call-back or a variation of whats already been done.

What if the new movies started with Empress Leia Organa trying to lead a benevolent dictatorship and maybe theres a Sith uprising from within the court that tries to corrupt her? Maybe the movie ends with a seige on a space-castle? Maybe at the end she surrenders the throne and learns that dictatorships are wrong or something?

See?

Took me like ten seconds to think of that.

Disney is not trying.
 
Polaroid22 said:
Its possible that Snoke is still alive, and that Kylo needs to turn to the light side and team up with Rey to defeat him. But they did a pretty good job, working with the characters that were set in The force awakens.
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Well since Snoke appears to have Force powers I guess anything is possible, but considering he was sliced into multiple sections it seems kinda unlikely. I did like the touch that the lightsaber was long enough to go through Snoke's arms as well as torso, so when Hux discovers the carnage we see part of Snoke's arms still up on the sides of his throne. Kinda nice little lightsabers-always-slice-off-arms-in-Star-Wars Easter Egg.
 
Mitch Gross said:
My overall disappointment with the film is that I feel that RJ missed the essential nature of what these movies are: Fairy Tales.
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Don't put Star Wars in the hands of a nihilist.

why there wouldn't just be endless kamikaze jumps to hyperspace in any given battle, especially if droids could do the piloting
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Don't put Star Wars in the hands of someone has a problem with plot holes.* And even after handing it to someone with solid writing skills, run the drafts past a team of plot-hole detectives. Youtube + superfans = all scripts will be analyzed to death.


---
* Anyone see Looper? The whole problem starts because they make you kill your future self. Why not just give the job to one of your coworkers?
 
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Many of the fundamental flaws started 2 years ago with The Force Awakens. They were further compounded in this film, leading to a point where the entirety of the resistance/rebels consist of 1 capital ship and 2 support ships.

This is the start of the film...

By the end, the entirety of the rebellion fits comfortably inside the Millenium Falcon with seatbelts to spare.

It's. Bizarre. This film is almost a parody of a child's cartoon in how simplistic the representation of entities are. At least the original films, or the prequels, or Rogue One, gave the illusion of an epic struggle, even if one side was outnumbered. This film actually dumbs it down to one ship. It's almost symbolic of the imagination employed in developing the story of this film.

I saw TFA and was just like, "meh, too bad. I was hoping for more." Rogue One was a fun ride and had a refreshing tone of seriousness. TLJ actually made me mad. I felt like Star Wars had been violated in a way other films that I didn't care for never did. I actually have this desire to "get back in the ring" as an internet nerd and defend the Star Wars brand against this assault. ;)
 
It's got too much of the Marvel Avengers syndrome - too many characters, too little time. I actually don't mind that for the comic books, but I don't care about those characters, either, and they are very different films.

Holdo has no point. That should have been Leia. Rose is IMO clutter meant to appeal to Asian demographic where Disney is struggling. We already have an overly full character roster - why not spend more time and depth with what we already have?

Rey being a no one is both an interesting twist (and could be executed well), but also opens up a cynical view of marketing - how can Disney sell more toys, make more movies, etc. if it's all about the Skywalkers? The heroes, the force, the Jedi... if the series is to expand it can't be pigeon holed into Skywalker land. All fine and well... but what is bothersome, is the concern that THIS trilogy - Ep 1-9 - is suppose to fundamentally be about the Skywalkers. It's like they jumped the gun in killing everyone off, killing the past, force feeding us a new direction (not fresh ideas - a whole different take). Can't that fuller expansion wait for the next standalone trilogy? I am hoping that whatever they do, Ep 9 ties it together and the series actually feels cohesive.

Is there really such a rush to kill everyone? I think Star Wars can be "fresh" and still complete the stories people were actually waiting to see told.

But bottom line is, unfortunately, the problems with this film aren't regarding creative differences and fan expectations. Take away "Star Wars" and this would be a relatively generic and mediocre sci-fi film that would probably be getting poor reviews.

Ppl can debate theories and disagreements for years, but really, it's just not a very great movie... structure, story, or script wise.
 
filmguy123 said:
But bottom line is, unfortunately, the problems with this film aren't regarding creative differences and fan expectations. Take away "Star Wars" and this would be a relatively generic and mediocre sci-fi film that would probably be getting poor reviews.

Ppl can debate theories and disagreements for years, but really, it's just not a very great movie... structure, story, or script wise.
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I love this analysis. I keep thinking about how this just isn't a good movie, Star Wars aside.
 
I think the issue is that Disney and the team are trying to appeal to all age groups at the same time. Mainly post-millennials to everybody younger. For me, the film was split into two parts: The first 2/3rds of the movie was for the under 35 group and the last 1/3 was for the over 35 group. I know this sounds simplistic but this duality really messes with the way "epic" is approached.

Overall I do not feel an association with these characters and I agree with the posts above. Like so many other movies today, it just seems like fluff for me. But I was a lot younger when the original movies were sweeping the nation...
 
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