I'd agree that the first two prequels lack that spark, but I felt like EPIII recaptured the spirit of the original three. But I guess I went in expecting crap and was pleasantly surprised when it exceeded my low expectations.
Star Wars III
- Thread starter BLUESPIDER
- Start date
BLUESPIDER
DVXuser Ninja
machardi said:
I totally disagree. The question is, how does a good person turn to evil? It’s not about sympathy with Anakin. If you’re sympathizing with a character turning evil and being seduced by the dark side, there’s either something wrong with the storytelling or there’s something wrong with you (and by this I mean the general “you,” not you personally).
I don’t think it was drawn together all that clearly, but it helps to have watched the first two movies just before having gone to see the third, because details survive in the mind better that way. Anakin was a control freak who hated change and wanted to do everything he could to stop it from happening. (All throughout the series, including IV-VI, he talked about order, remember.) He could never control his fear of change, his fear of not being strong enough to STOP change, and his refusal to accept the limits of his own power to keep things from going to disorder, to keep people from dying. Remember, he was a fix-it guy, a guy who repaired things, who felt best when he was doing that. Apply that to a universal scale – there were things he couldn’t fix, and he couldn’t accept it. People die? People act in ways that are counterproductive? This needs to stop!
He also knew he was better at the Jedi biz than anyone else, what with being the Chosen One and all. Superior ability breeds superior ambition, particularly in someone not old enough to have developed the maturity to handle it. He spoke many times of wanting more power, partially because of what I wrote above and partially because he knew he could have it. And of course, there was a supreme arrogance associated with that.
The dark side offered him the ability to achieve all of this. He made a conscious choice when he sided with Palpatine over Windu. He had just done the “right” thing with Windu and exposed Palpatine as the Sith lord, and from his point of view, Windu had snubbed him yet again. Do the right thing, do the wrong thing – with the Jedi, it didn’t seem to matter.
I think the problem was with the acting. He couldn’t successfully pull off the internal change and make it show through on screen.
DinosaurInc
Active member
While I could argue that it is "awesome" by some of today's standards (score, SFX, SpFX, Visuals), I definitely couldn't argue that RotS measures up to the originals. Acting was (for the most part) trash.
Did I see it twice? Yep. Best SW since Empire---resounding no.
Did I see it twice? Yep. Best SW since Empire---resounding no.
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
In 1977 my father (Sperm doning enstranged selfish tightwad power-trippin alpha male bastard that he is) took me to see Star Wars.
In 2005 I took my 5 year old son to see Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith.
I got so much joy out of watching my sons eyes light up as the yellow Star Wars font rushed away from the screen and the score kicks in.
This film is much better than the last two films; the first one boring the hell out of me with the focus on the little Anakin and the adbsurdity of him racing PODS and flying a fighter in a space battle. The last one being a whiny love fest and really not having any real merit other than to establish the love between Ani and Padme.
This one did indeed bring the series back a little closer to what it should be. I found it deeper than all of the other Star Wars films with the political turmoil, the sith lord emerging, the killing of the Jedi and the younglings and the republic turing into an empire. I enjoyed the battles and the rebellion activity that was taking place acorss the galaxy. I enjoyed the Clones turning on the Republic under ORDER 66 (Like Hitler's Directives?).
This was a deeper film; more substance and it felt like it was going somewhere where the last two films felt stalled and stuck in nuetral idleing while we all sat and wondered "Who gives a ****?". Although seemingly rushed and clipped together I enjoyed the puzzle being put together and the visuals that were so familiar; Darth Vaders Imperial Cruiser, Tatooine and Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru's pod, a young Antilles as the Droids are handed over (with the nice detail of being ordered to have a Protocol Droid wipe out their memory), the blocade cruiser than Organna was on (seeing the white bulkheads conjurs up memories of the intitial Star Wars of course) and the rising of Vader himself. Some bit of overkill with Exposition "Qui Gon has learned to talk through death; I will teach you to commune with him...." but it's okay; it's like a retirment party. Let him say what he wants.
I have some reservations; yes the acting was stale and lacked any real emotion other than what Ewan and Ian provided; the CGI characters bother me much more than CGI worlds and sets; the LAVA planet where they are fighting 20 feet above the LAVA flow and not burning to death, the CGI YODA is laughable at best and I have no clue who and what that Robot Lung Thing Dude was (which totally took me away from the Star Wars world).
This film is Number 4 on the list for me. This film returns Star Wars back to some glory and goes out on a high note but not on a bang. I am stoked I saw it; I am stoked it's over. I am stoked I saw it on the big screen but told my wife "You didn't miss anything iof you wait for DVD."
I am probaly this sites reigning "Star Wars Sucks George" President but will confess; this is much better than the last two films.
Sides, taking my 5 year old son was more than worth it. I hope he remembers this evening as I always will.
In 2005 I took my 5 year old son to see Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith.
I got so much joy out of watching my sons eyes light up as the yellow Star Wars font rushed away from the screen and the score kicks in.
This film is much better than the last two films; the first one boring the hell out of me with the focus on the little Anakin and the adbsurdity of him racing PODS and flying a fighter in a space battle. The last one being a whiny love fest and really not having any real merit other than to establish the love between Ani and Padme.
This one did indeed bring the series back a little closer to what it should be. I found it deeper than all of the other Star Wars films with the political turmoil, the sith lord emerging, the killing of the Jedi and the younglings and the republic turing into an empire. I enjoyed the battles and the rebellion activity that was taking place acorss the galaxy. I enjoyed the Clones turning on the Republic under ORDER 66 (Like Hitler's Directives?).
This was a deeper film; more substance and it felt like it was going somewhere where the last two films felt stalled and stuck in nuetral idleing while we all sat and wondered "Who gives a ****?". Although seemingly rushed and clipped together I enjoyed the puzzle being put together and the visuals that were so familiar; Darth Vaders Imperial Cruiser, Tatooine and Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru's pod, a young Antilles as the Droids are handed over (with the nice detail of being ordered to have a Protocol Droid wipe out their memory), the blocade cruiser than Organna was on (seeing the white bulkheads conjurs up memories of the intitial Star Wars of course) and the rising of Vader himself. Some bit of overkill with Exposition "Qui Gon has learned to talk through death; I will teach you to commune with him...." but it's okay; it's like a retirment party. Let him say what he wants.
I have some reservations; yes the acting was stale and lacked any real emotion other than what Ewan and Ian provided; the CGI characters bother me much more than CGI worlds and sets; the LAVA planet where they are fighting 20 feet above the LAVA flow and not burning to death, the CGI YODA is laughable at best and I have no clue who and what that Robot Lung Thing Dude was (which totally took me away from the Star Wars world).
This film is Number 4 on the list for me. This film returns Star Wars back to some glory and goes out on a high note but not on a bang. I am stoked I saw it; I am stoked it's over. I am stoked I saw it on the big screen but told my wife "You didn't miss anything iof you wait for DVD."
I am probaly this sites reigning "Star Wars Sucks George" President but will confess; this is much better than the last two films.
Sides, taking my 5 year old son was more than worth it. I hope he remembers this evening as I always will.
MovieSwede
Well-known member
Its the CGI thats kills a lot of the Star wars feeling. If you can see that a character isnt really there. It take away som of the moviemagic. CGI looks to perfekt and not enough 3d feeling over them.
Lord of the ring trilogy face the same problem. The CGI battles feels just like they are a cgi battle.
The first Movie has the greatest battle scene in the end because of the feeling that everybody is there.
One day we gonna se a perfect CGI character. But until then i prefer men in rubbersuits (In fantasymovies etc. dont get any ideas now)
Lord of the ring trilogy face the same problem. The CGI battles feels just like they are a cgi battle.
The first Movie has the greatest battle scene in the end because of the feeling that everybody is there.
One day we gonna se a perfect CGI character. But until then i prefer men in rubbersuits (In fantasymovies etc. dont get any ideas now)
Daniel_Runyon
Well-known member
Jubal28 said:
Actually, I think it is about sympathy with Anakin. The larger point is indeed how does a good person turn bad, which would point to that same multi-situational choice potential being dormant (or not so) in all of us. If we are to truly learn the lesson that we are being taught, the best way to do so is to temporarilly, and temporally, allow ourselves to identify with the posistion he was in, feel his reasoning and emotional states, and remember any minutea we can pick up on that can be appied to our own potential future senereos. One never knows what types of decision one will face at some point down the road, and it may not even benefit you in this life, but if you can retain the knowledge, you can certainly bet it will serve you well at some later date....very valuable stuff, I think. No good is done by having a pre-superior mental stance to Anikin and his position, thinking yourself invincable to ever being weak (or vulnerable) enough to face similar choices (even if they apply to very dis-similar circumstance).
I know that this example is (on the surface) nothing whatsoever like the circumstance Anikin faced, but think about it anyway:
What would you do if you died from this state of being (human) and were reborn as a particular type of carnivore with only one foodchoice. In order to get that foodchoice and eat it, you had to put the being through an extremely long and painful suffering....directly with no way to avert your attention elsewhere while the process was occuring. You were also blessed (or cursed?) with still having kept the same human conciousness and memories of who you were from your last lifetime. You really knew, with full awareness, how much suffering it caused other concious living beings for you to get what you felt you needed to satisfy the cravings of hunger you felt, and to simply keep yourself alive.
Would you just say "f it....gotta eat!", or would you act from a more profound state of being, awareness, and conciousness....even though it would cause your own inense suffering?
John H.
I agree with your assessment. It is definitely head and shoulders above the Ep. 1 & 2 and I am glad that kids today got to see a film that wasn't disgustingly bad. Unfortunately, I'm just not as forgiving.
I grew up in L.A. and I was at the first public showing of Star Wars at the Chinese theater in 1977. It was a morning show (back then they didn't do the midnight thing and no one much thought that Star Wars would be a good movie anyway). It so blew me away that I remember walking out of the theater and being stunned that it was still daytime. My ninth grade self thought that eight or nine hours must have passed by.
So I saw Empire at the first showing in Hollywood as well (blew off high school that Friday to be at the morning showing which wasn't at the Chinese, it was at the Egyptian down the street). This one had a big line around the block and once I again I was transported. I loved the teaser at the end for "Revenge of the Jedi" (later renamed "Return of the Jedi"). And I was in line for Jedi's first showing back at the Chinese. With the progression from Ep. 4 to 5, I thought for sure that 6 would be the best yet. It was great but I started to get a queasy feeling when some fuzzy little teddy bears began to kick ass on a legion of fearsome stormtroopers in full body armor. But all-in-all I was pleased. It was *almost* as good as Empire.
Now comes Episode 1. I was back in line at Mann's Chinese, this time for weeks ahead of the screening (for charity). During those weeks I hung out with some of the world's hardest core SW fans. These are people who left jobs and families and in some cases sold most of their possesions to buy their way from Europe, Asia, Australia to come camp out in that line for weeks. It was awesome. We were interviewed on TV and we got so many calls to the payphone from live radio shows around the world wanting an interview that it got to be a chore that we did in rotation. The cast visited the line. PacBell dropped a DSL line to our phone booth and we started webcasting video. We made fan fiction films right there on the sidewalk.
Opening night was awesome. Hollywood Blvd. was closed off, the spotlights were tracking the sky, the networks were broadcasting live and we had *the* magic tickets. They let us into the theater nearly two hours before the movie and it was electric. As a group we'd raised nearly $100,000 for charity. George was in the balconey. Then the lights went down, the music started and the audience literally leapt to their feet with the SW logo hit the screen. It was great... until Jar Jar. I think in about the third or fourth Jar Jar scene there was a plaintive voice in the audience that said "Make it stop. Please make it stop!"
When the movie was over and we gathered on the, now dark and deserted, sidewalk in front of the theater, there was a kind of morose silence. You've never seen a group of people so let down. Not Super Bowl losers. Not Olympic hopefuls. It was just bad. And that's why I can never bring myself to forgive George. Maybe I was too jaded by that experience to see things objectively any more but there was no way that Ep. 2 & 3 could have been great enough to make up for the letdown of Ep. 1.
I wonder how Ep. 3 will be seen in later years. Is it possible that George so lowered everyone's expectations with Ep. 1 & 2 that 3 seems a bit better than it is? I dunno. There's no doubt that the effects are simply awesome and that the over-arching story is compelling but the laughable dialog and wooden acting (except for Ian and mostly Ewan), are mortal wounds to the film.
--- Mark
I agree with your assessment. It is definitely head and shoulders above the Ep. 1 & 2 and I am glad that kids today got to see a film that wasn't disgustingly bad. Unfortunately, I'm just not as forgiving.
I grew up in L.A. and I was at the first public showing of Star Wars at the Chinese theater in 1977. It was a morning show (back then they didn't do the midnight thing and no one much thought that Star Wars would be a good movie anyway). It so blew me away that I remember walking out of the theater and being stunned that it was still daytime. My ninth grade self thought that eight or nine hours must have passed by.
So I saw Empire at the first showing in Hollywood as well (blew off high school that Friday to be at the morning showing which wasn't at the Chinese, it was at the Egyptian down the street). This one had a big line around the block and once I again I was transported. I loved the teaser at the end for "Revenge of the Jedi" (later renamed "Return of the Jedi"). And I was in line for Jedi's first showing back at the Chinese. With the progression from Ep. 4 to 5, I thought for sure that 6 would be the best yet. It was great but I started to get a queasy feeling when some fuzzy little teddy bears began to kick ass on a legion of fearsome stormtroopers in full body armor. But all-in-all I was pleased. It was *almost* as good as Empire.
Now comes Episode 1. I was back in line at Mann's Chinese, this time for weeks ahead of the screening (for charity). During those weeks I hung out with some of the world's hardest core SW fans. These are people who left jobs and families and in some cases sold most of their possesions to buy their way from Europe, Asia, Australia to come camp out in that line for weeks. It was awesome. We were interviewed on TV and we got so many calls to the payphone from live radio shows around the world wanting an interview that it got to be a chore that we did in rotation. The cast visited the line. PacBell dropped a DSL line to our phone booth and we started webcasting video. We made fan fiction films right there on the sidewalk.
Opening night was awesome. Hollywood Blvd. was closed off, the spotlights were tracking the sky, the networks were broadcasting live and we had *the* magic tickets. They let us into the theater nearly two hours before the movie and it was electric. As a group we'd raised nearly $100,000 for charity. George was in the balconey. Then the lights went down, the music started and the audience literally leapt to their feet with the SW logo hit the screen. It was great... until Jar Jar. I think in about the third or fourth Jar Jar scene there was a plaintive voice in the audience that said "Make it stop. Please make it stop!"
When the movie was over and we gathered on the, now dark and deserted, sidewalk in front of the theater, there was a kind of morose silence. You've never seen a group of people so let down. Not Super Bowl losers. Not Olympic hopefuls. It was just bad. And that's why I can never bring myself to forgive George. Maybe I was too jaded by that experience to see things objectively any more but there was no way that Ep. 2 & 3 could have been great enough to make up for the letdown of Ep. 1.
I wonder how Ep. 3 will be seen in later years. Is it possible that George so lowered everyone's expectations with Ep. 1 & 2 that 3 seems a bit better than it is? I dunno. There's no doubt that the effects are simply awesome and that the over-arching story is compelling but the laughable dialog and wooden acting (except for Ian and mostly Ewan), are mortal wounds to the film.
--- Mark
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
Totally agree with that post. Although I did not see SW 4 (Whatever they call it) in an atmosphere as the one you described; but after the film there was zero electricty, zero emotion. People merely walked out of the theatre as if it was just another film.
And it was. And they are. They just arent that good. It's not about expectations and hype either. It either is epic or it is not. I think I got more stoked walking out of The Mummy than I did any of these new Star Wars films. I got more stoked walking out of Dawn of the Dead 04 than these new ones.
As I mentioned earlier; I said to my wife "You can wait for DVD."
And it was. And they are. They just arent that good. It's not about expectations and hype either. It either is epic or it is not. I think I got more stoked walking out of The Mummy than I did any of these new Star Wars films. I got more stoked walking out of Dawn of the Dead 04 than these new ones.
As I mentioned earlier; I said to my wife "You can wait for DVD."
Jim Brennan
VHS Member Old Skool
low my expectations were....yet still disappointed I was.
Super Trooper
Well-known member
Well, I've seen it 8 times so far, and one thing is certain...I'm in need of some serious psychiatric help.
This just isn't natural folks.
Some one stop me.
Please.
This just isn't natural folks.
Some one stop me.
Please.
BLUESPIDER
DVXuser Ninja
Super Trooper said:
uh, FREAK!
Don't worry, I'd still kick it with you. :laugh:
Rich Lee
I shoot Pirates.
i just saw it for the second time...i liked it the first time...but now i dont know...its kinda crappy...i almost wanted to leave cause i was so bored through the first half. there are some great moments...but far too many crappy ones...the movie needed to be cut way down...like my use of periods in this post...there were way too many establishing shots...way to many just unnecessary shots period.
bah...wudrugunnado?
bah...wudrugunnado?
Jim Brennan
VHS Member Old Skool
I found myself laughing outloud everytime they showed Natalie Portman. I just knew that hilarious dialogue would ensue.
She was my favorite part of Ep 1. Too bad she was turned into sentimental window dressing in this film. Where was her confidence? Bad bad bad character development.
Some good cinematography tho. And I totally dug when Yoda put the whammy on the 2 imperial guards in Paplatine's office.
Otherwise too much "who cares" and unintended chuckles.
She was my favorite part of Ep 1. Too bad she was turned into sentimental window dressing in this film. Where was her confidence? Bad bad bad character development.
Some good cinematography tho. And I totally dug when Yoda put the whammy on the 2 imperial guards in Paplatine's office.
Otherwise too much "who cares" and unintended chuckles.
BLUESPIDER
DVXuser Ninja
I saw it agian and let me tell you I liked it this time around. I mean , my date looked so freakin cute during the movie. Damm! She was fine! I couldn't take my eyes off her. She was whispering some really sweet thangs in my ear. Oh the movie... um yeah..
Saw ROTS for the second time last night. Although I enjoyed it visually and a few scenes with Palpatine and the last one between Padme & Anakin, overall it's emotionallly stillborn. There were no cheers or applause during the movie. After it ended people filed out silently like zombies!
Palpatine/Lucas: POWER! UNLIMITED CGI POWW-ERRR!!! ... But still... My kingdom for a horse! I mean a Screenwriter! An EMPIRE for a good Screenplay!!
Obi Wan: Not even the Younglings survived! O happy Day! Starbucks, Yoda?
True Evil: Anakin levitates the younglings and impales them on his light saber.
----
Obi Wan reviews the security tapes . He is CRUSHED by what he SEES! Betrayal! Murder! The Horror! The Horror! Obi Wan shakes. "How could I not forsee this?
But lately I've had these awful CGI O.D. headaches! I have failed you Master Yoda. Qui quon has failed you. "
Yoda: Failed we ALL have. Such dummies we are. Hmmm?!!
Slowly, as if turning to the dark side himself, Obi Wan realizes "Anakin must die!" Yoda attempts to restrain him to no avail. They Clash.
Obi Wan escapes to Padmes Condo and becomes Jack Bauer . Padmes condo is trashed by unreasoned Jedi-Bauer powers. "Where's Anakin!!? Tell me where he is!! Take me to him NOW!!!" Obi Wan levitates Padme, threatening to drop her for this vital information. He recoils and releases her. What have I become? Even still, Anakin must pay!
-----
Anakin's smouldering amputated body lying next to lava flow.
Obi Wan weeps. "Once you were my Brother! Now you are a charcoal briquette!! ( SOB!!) All your Jedi training WASTED!!! "
Anakin: You and I are the same. My one time Master!! Ooch! Ouch!! We are but shills to sell Pepsi... Pizza and Chicken Poopets...( bitter laugh ) for the Merchandising Sith Lord: Darth Lucas !!
Obi Wan: True! I should have sensed it. Alfred Hitchcock didn't peddle junk food to kids. Neither did Martin Scorsese! We all have been deceived by The Dark Side!
Anakin: Help Me, Master!! I still owe money on my Jedi student loan and... my wallet is BURNING!!! Ooch! Ouch!! Hot, hot, hot!
Obi Wan: Don't worry, my evil Crispy Critter! The Jedis will write it off as YOU shall be written off! Now if someone would only write me a meaty acting job....And by the way, i will not pour Pepto Bismol all over you to relieve your pain. Take that! Darth Productplacement !
Yoda: Troubled these films are. Visually stunning yes. Emotionally dead they are. Use your feelings George!
Palpatine/Lucas: POWER! UNLIMITED CGI POWW-ERRR!!! ... But still... My kingdom for a horse! I mean a Screenwriter! An EMPIRE for a good Screenplay!!
Obi Wan: Not even the Younglings survived! O happy Day! Starbucks, Yoda?
True Evil: Anakin levitates the younglings and impales them on his light saber.
----
Obi Wan reviews the security tapes . He is CRUSHED by what he SEES! Betrayal! Murder! The Horror! The Horror! Obi Wan shakes. "How could I not forsee this?
But lately I've had these awful CGI O.D. headaches! I have failed you Master Yoda. Qui quon has failed you. "
Yoda: Failed we ALL have. Such dummies we are. Hmmm?!!
Slowly, as if turning to the dark side himself, Obi Wan realizes "Anakin must die!" Yoda attempts to restrain him to no avail. They Clash.
Obi Wan escapes to Padmes Condo and becomes Jack Bauer . Padmes condo is trashed by unreasoned Jedi-Bauer powers. "Where's Anakin!!? Tell me where he is!! Take me to him NOW!!!" Obi Wan levitates Padme, threatening to drop her for this vital information. He recoils and releases her. What have I become? Even still, Anakin must pay!
-----
Anakin's smouldering amputated body lying next to lava flow.
Obi Wan weeps. "Once you were my Brother! Now you are a charcoal briquette!! ( SOB!!) All your Jedi training WASTED!!! "
Anakin: You and I are the same. My one time Master!! Ooch! Ouch!! We are but shills to sell Pepsi... Pizza and Chicken Poopets...( bitter laugh ) for the Merchandising Sith Lord: Darth Lucas !!
Obi Wan: True! I should have sensed it. Alfred Hitchcock didn't peddle junk food to kids. Neither did Martin Scorsese! We all have been deceived by The Dark Side!
Anakin: Help Me, Master!! I still owe money on my Jedi student loan and... my wallet is BURNING!!! Ooch! Ouch!! Hot, hot, hot!
Obi Wan: Don't worry, my evil Crispy Critter! The Jedis will write it off as YOU shall be written off! Now if someone would only write me a meaty acting job....And by the way, i will not pour Pepto Bismol all over you to relieve your pain. Take that! Darth Productplacement !
Yoda: Troubled these films are. Visually stunning yes. Emotionally dead they are. Use your feelings George!
Jim Brennan
VHS Member Old Skool
Darth Lucas. That's a good one
DinosaurInc
Active member
John H,
You know, I'm glad you took the boy out and had a good time. SW are an event, not just a movie. Back in the day when the originals were released, it wasn't all about the movies. I mean it was everything. We all know those guys (some of us are those guys) that had SW figures and models (toys) like the original Millenium Falcon, only to find out that after we moved out of the parents place they gave them away (or worse, trashed em), to top it off we find out that all of those toys that we used to have are worth a sh@@-ton of money now!
Anyway, going to SW is an event. I for one love the over-merchandising. I always get amped up when I go to Taco Bell and get the "Collector's Cup", regardless of how the movies end up being. He will remember seeing the original "Episode III" for the rest of his life, and he will always love it, flaws and all. Life's worth it.
The prequels still suck
You know, I'm glad you took the boy out and had a good time. SW are an event, not just a movie. Back in the day when the originals were released, it wasn't all about the movies. I mean it was everything. We all know those guys (some of us are those guys) that had SW figures and models (toys) like the original Millenium Falcon, only to find out that after we moved out of the parents place they gave them away (or worse, trashed em), to top it off we find out that all of those toys that we used to have are worth a sh@@-ton of money now!
Anyway, going to SW is an event. I for one love the over-merchandising. I always get amped up when I go to Taco Bell and get the "Collector's Cup", regardless of how the movies end up being. He will remember seeing the original "Episode III" for the rest of his life, and he will always love it, flaws and all. Life's worth it.
The prequels still suck
Tim Miller
Well-known member
Funny stuff jleo...my brother-in-law has seen it 5 or so times (with more coming in the near future), the thing that makes it bad is that he recently has his appendix taken out and he has no insurance. Sure it's only like $50 on tickets so far, but come'on.