Star Trek: Picard & Discovery

JJ makes me mad. I think he's a brilliant producer in the sense that he understands what people think they want and how to put together an excitement-generating production. But his mystery boxes never think through the whole plot and always disappoint in the end.

PS did you see the South Park where they ask JJ to reboot the national anthem? "We know you've been asked to reboot a lot. We know you're tired."

https://southpark.cc.com/clips/2mtdjv/our-anthem-needs-to-be-updated
 
Did anyone catch the pilot of ST: Lower Decks?

What did you think? Is it even still Trek? Is it just a lesser Futurama? I got some laughs, although they really seemed to HAMMER home the point of how unimportant these people are (we get it - show, don't tell)
 
Discovery was a disgrace.

I only got three episodes into Picard before the sheer boredom set in and I bailed on it. It was what appears to be a 3-hour plot puffed out to 10, a plot I had no interest in. I don't have the fascination with Data or his background that many seem to, so I didn't care.

I don't see anything appealing about Lower Decks.
 
David Jimerson said:
Discovery was a disgrace.

I only got three episodes into Picard before the sheer boredom set in and I bailed on it. It was what appears to be a 3-hour plot puffed out to 10, a plot I had no interest in. I don't have the fascination with Data or his background that many seem to, so I didn't care.

I don't see anything appealing about Lower Decks.
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Discovery wasn't a disgrace - the first several episodes were gold. It only got disgraceful after that.

Picard picked up the pace towards the end of the season.
 
ahalpert said:
Did anyone else catch the new Star Trek: Picard series on CBS? I'm curious to hear reactions.
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Didn't see it. I like Patrick Stewart and think he is a great actor. Never really liked Star Trek Next Generation. I'm not a fan of techno babble. The show as a whole was too techie and Stewart too prim, proper and grandiose. Seemed like he should be on stage reciting Shakespeare instead of the Enterprise. I prefer my scifi like the reboot of Battlestar Galactica.
 
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Peter C. said:
Didn't see it. I like Patrick Stewart and think he is a great actor. Never really liked Star Trek Next Generation, the whole show was too techie and Stewart to prim and proper. I prefer the reboot of Battlestar Galactica. I'm not a fan of techno babble.
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yeah BSG has a much more grim, gritty and analog vibe

I recommend the first season of star trek discovery - it has some of that dark energy and less techno babble than TNG
 
ahalpert said:
yeah BSG has a much more grim, gritty and analog vibe

I recommend the first season of star trek discovery - it has some of that dark energy and less techno babble than TNG
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I'd admit BSG got a little too grim but still liked it. I also enjoy SG1. To me I like more character driven plots, not some complex techie thing to solve a problem. I have to do enough of that for my work don't need to see it in my leisure time. :)
 
Did anyone watch the premiere of the new season of Discovery?

The VFX are goooorgeous (and apparently all done remotely at home by the team) and the cinematography is great. It feels a lot like Altered Carbon or other current sci-fi shows, though.

The scene/dialogue writing...ranges from passable to horrible. And the premise/allegory is definitely overwrought.

Whatever. I'll still watch it. Plus I'm a sucker for stories that revolve around system of government/good governance haha.
 
I like Next Gen and DS9 more than any of the other series. Discovery S1 was pretty solid, I thought. I dug the darker vibe and some eps had a more classic trek feel. S2, however, was very disappointing. When it wasn't things chasing or exploding it was tedious emo dialogue. Want to root for this show 'cause it's Trek and it's new, but there's just something severely lacking about it...plots, characters (for the most part) compared to older shows. Haven't seen Picard yet. Seems to be pretty polarizing.
 
Josh Bass said:
I like Next Gen and DS9 more than any of the other series. Discovery S1 was pretty solid, I thought. I dug the darker vibe and some eps had a more classic trek feel. S2, however, was very disappointing. When it wasn't things chasing or exploding it was tedious emo dialogue. Want to root for this show 'cause it's Trek and it's new, but there's just something severely lacking about it...plots, characters (for the most part) compared to older shows. Haven't seen Picard yet. Seems to be pretty polarizing.
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Yeah i thought the first half of s1 was amazing, then downhill. S2 crappy.

S3 is still pretty emo. Lots of weepy dialogue. (It doesnt feel like a show targeted at dudes.) But generally better plot.

Theres some nice wild west vibes in episode 2.

SPOILER ALERT vvvvv

The interesting thing for me about S3 is the sort or dark ages vibe - the idea of societal regression, which has happened numerous times throughout our history. That theme combined with the crew being amazed by new technology from a thousand years beyond their time make for some interesting dynamics.

END SPOILERS

Honestly, im most excited for the upcoming series Strange New Worlds because i think its going back to standalone episodic space adventures, which i feel like has so far worked better for Trek than season-long arcs
 
“In a very real sense, we are all aliens on a strange planet." - Gene Roddenberry

Did anyone else see the season finale of Discovery? (It ends with that extended Roddenberry quote)
 
Did anyone else sit through season 2 of Picard? What a shitshow. Probably the worst season of any star trek series ever. As if the writers challenged themselves to always make the most unrealistic, most unoriginal, or most boring choice at every turn. Sad to see a spin-off diminish the legacy and story arc of shows that came before it
 
Have you checked out Strange New Worlds yet? I really enjoyed the first couple episodes. They went back to basics and felt like classic Trek. However, as the season went on I became increasingly bored with it. Didn't finish the last couple.
 
ahalpert said:
Did anyone else sit through season 2 of Picard? What a ****show. Probably the worst season of any star trek series ever. As if the writers challenged themselves to always make the most unrealistic, most unoriginal, or most boring choice at every turn. Sad to see a spin-off diminish the legacy and story arc of shows that came before it
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I watched a couple episodes and gave up on it. I have watched reviews and they have nothing positive to say.
Hard to believe how bad it is.
 
Batutta said:
Have you checked out Strange New Worlds yet? I really enjoyed the first couple episodes. They went back to basics and felt like classic Trek. However, as the season went on I became increasingly bored with it. Didn't finish the last couple.
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I'm really enjoying it, but my feeling was that episodes 1-5 were better than 6-8, which would have benefited from more work on the story and dialogue writing. I'm midway through episode 9 now, which is better but owes a massive debt to Alien.

I'm so happy that it's episodic. Picard and Discovery are both serial and have about a 1/3 success rate IMO for nailing a good season-length plot. And if the plot stinks, it will drag down every episode. There are also a ton of undeveloped characters on Discovery who have no distinctions to me besides their ethnicities. I don't even remember their names. Episodic lends itself better to character development because they can devote a standalone episode to a single character, as we see with SNW.

I love love love the production design. Best part of the show. Looks modern and clean but organic and natural. Lots of 1960s design inspiration, which helps tie it aesthetically to TOS.

I love the tragic nature of Captain Pike and how we already know (as he does) how he ends up. Anson Mount stole the show during his season on Discovery which is why they gave him a spin-off. The scene where he sees his future was particularly memorable. And his happy-ish ending is told in an episode of TOS.

It's important to remember that every Trek series (except TOS) started out weak and got much more interesting by season 3. Next generation was chock full of stinky episodes in season 1 and even season 2. I'm willing to give this series more time to mature. But 10-episode seasons are much less forgiving than 24-episode seasons because every stinker detracts that much more
 
Sadly - and I speak about Star Trek from watching it weekly a very long time ago - it has tried to keep going too long. Out of all the 'new' ones the only one that was engaging was when they take an old idea, and just make some more episodes, with sensible casting, and the same values as the original. The original series was unique - and I figured making new episodes with new cast (and the children of the the original cast and stuff like that) was doomed - but it wasn't. TNG was different enough to work fine for me, but then DS9 and Voyager sort of drifted away for me. Discovery would have been good but for the introduction of woke value before we even invented the word. Picard was too much - a collection of old actors, old themes and none of the characters grown from their TNG days, just all aged. Stewart is a brilliant actor, but they're all to old and Picard positively ancient. It just stretched credulity too much for me. I stopped being a serious fan after TNG - I'm currently revisiting Voyager, and picking up a few things I'd missed first time - but I don't think I'll bother with more when I'm done. One thing I did notice is that Picard old in TNG looks more real that the real Picard in old age. The makeup version was a better 'old'.
 
paulears said:
Sadly - and I speak about Star Trek from watching it weekly a very long time ago - it has tried to keep going too long... TNG was different enough to work fine for me, but then DS9 and Voyager sort of drifted away for me.
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Well, that's verifiably false! DS9 is undoubtedly the best Trek series ever produced. (It's a bit apples to oranges since TOS and TNG were episodic space adventures. They did that better than DS9.) And DS9 is a bigger departure from TOS, to boot.

DS9 wove a rich tapestry of complex and convincing character- and world-building. And it married that environment with multiple, simultaneous, compelling seasons-long story arcs.

Voyager is a bit of a TNG repeat, although it has an intriguing Homer's Odyssey with spaceships premise. But it still has a lot of great episodes, even if some feel redundant. The dozen or so episodes starting with Scorpion where they rescue 7 of 9 and convert her back to human were particularly memorable. It's the characters that drive the shows and not the other way around.

Even Enterprise, with its relatively weak characters, had elements of interest dealing with human interstellar exploration in its infancy before the founding of the Federation. And some interesting insights into Vulcan psychology. In particular, I'd recommend the 3-part episode starting with Babel One (S4E12). One of the best Trek episodes of all time IMO.

There is plenty of bad Trek writing, but not because it's impossible to explore the universe and develop its themes and characters more. Season 3 of TOS was pretty bad, after all, and that was before any of these spin-offs.

Discovery would have been good but for the introduction of woke value before we even invented the word.
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'Woke' was coined well before Discovery started shooting. The problem for me isn't that it's woke but that it's clearly satisfied just being woke without having engaging scenework. Also, they take it too far with the men. All of the men are either bad or submissive. There are no strong male role models for me to relate to.

But i thought it got off to a great start in season 1. Interesting main character, absolutely excellent plot. Then they canned the showrunner halfway through because he was splitting his time with another show, and things went downhill. I wonder if they later softened the edge of the main character because she was too threatening to white women. The way they wrote her character at first was brilliant, fearless, tough as nails, and I would have followed her into battle in a heartbeat. Now she spends half her time crying.

Picard was too much - a collection of old actors, old themes and none of the characters grown from their TNG days, just all aged. Stewart is a brilliant actor, but they're all to old and Picard positively ancient. .
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I fully support him continuing to act, but he's lost the ability to project his voice and control his tempo and volume. Those are an actor's main tools, so I'm afraid it's time for him to retire from roles like this.

His show also represents what's wrong with Trek right now - they're too concerned with reliving old characters and paying homage to the shows that people already like. When the saga moved on from TOS to the shows of the 80s and 90s, they were simply trying to further develop the themes and create new characters. That's all they need to keep doing.

But Picard worked in that it got me watching again because of my attachment to the character. I hadn't seen any of Discovery or Enterprise until I watched Picard Season 1. But then I went back over the last 2.5 years and rewatched all the live-action series. So, Picard rekindled my interest
 
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