Standard vs Superflat

ZumaDog, wasn't the HL79 orange? I had three of those things and sure liked the picture they produced. And your using old school nomenclature, pedestal knee, I miss that stuff.

Anyway I have used Apples Color to color correct some 7D footage and it behaves really well. The histogram from super flat looks very much like a cineon file, well flat. But after pumping some life into it in it looks great. However, have you ever white balanced your EX1 with a warm card? Because that's what super flat looks like, it messes up the skin tone in much the same way. Its easy to fix but looks a little odd at first.

Is there a way to white balance the 7D manually?
 
ChuckS said:
OK. I'll bite. How?
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You put the camera in CUSTOM WHITE BALANCE MODE.

Shoot an 18% grey card at a 45 deg angle away from you.
(The card has to fill the frame)

Do not shoot a white card, as that will throw off exposure and color especially with lights brighter than normal or flash.

Go to white balance selection, and import the grey card image and hit the set button to import it.


You can also add mood with warm cards to white balance.



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Or you can just put it on K setting and pick your own color temp
 
ChuckS said:
ZumaDog, wasn't the HL79 orange?
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No, the HL79 was gray, but the orange one was a much cheaper version tube camera and I forget what model# it was. We used that on the first Die Hard and I can even be seen in the movie a couple of times as a news camera man shooting with it. I shot much of the advancing tanks surveillance footage shown on the lobby monitors with that orange beast. 50 nights of shooting, never again!
 
That was the last tube camera I had, boy those were the days...

Die Hard seems like it was an eternity ago. We're getting old...
 
Just getting into really utilizing superflat and neutral. This thread was very informative.

Am I correct in observing that if not lit well, superflat still has really really crushed blacks? Is it just me or does the 7D just crush blacks up the wazoo? Basically seems like best way to overcome that somewhat is to turn contrast as low as it will go?
 
Perry Wilson said:
Those examples are exactly what I was talking about... The color looks washed out in the superflat shots but the range is great... But the color corrected footage doesn't look any different then something that would come right out of the camera, the blacks are crushed, and the range is nothing to right home about... what you guys arent understanding is that I am saying, what is the point of using the superflat picture style to increase your dynamic range in the black levels if you are simply going to crush them in post any ways, why not save yourself some trouble and shoot that corrected footage right out of the camera... I can understand using it if you werent going to color correct in post and that was the style you were going for... but instead of washing out your color just light the scene better...
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What if you decide that you don't want the shot contrasty? You can't remove contrast later.

If you are 100% sure you want the footage like this, shoot like this.

But it's not like applying an S curve adds that much to render times later.
 
colors accurate (skin tones) - good
lighting what you want and not having "shadow detail" where you don't want it anyway - good

weird colors (skin tones and overall image) - bad
you can fix it in post later argument - wrong even if it was raw or uncompressed footage
you can light flat and fix it in post later - bad results
you "need" shadow details and then "crush the blacks" - bad for your overall iq

post is not that magical place were anything can be made right.
 
I agree that the skin tones should not be made weird, as they can not usually be restored.
I am working on creating a curve that will keep good skin color, and gain a little shadow detail, and slightly washout the colors.

The reason I want to do this is because it is easier to match scenes and shots, when the color is not baked in. It is also easier to add a color "tint" to the footage for a special look.
As long as you don't clip the color, it can be restored once you go 10 bit. If you clip it, it's lost.


Here, try this film curve:

http://gavinfilms.com/filmprofile/Giles_Film.pf2
 
stephenmick said:
A friend of mine (a creative director at an ad agency) worked on a client job shot on the 5DII. The settings were some variation on "superflat" designed to maximize range and provide grading space in post. They took the footage into a high-end telecine/color-correction room and found that even with the tools they had, it took more time and (unfortunately) more of the client's money, to get the look they wanted. He didn't say that the footage fell apart or degraded in any real way, only that they had a long way to go to get from where they started to where they wanted to be.

He took one look at some of my footage from the 7D and GH1 and said, "we should have just hired you to shoot this."
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Stephen, this question is probably going to occasion a "that depends" answer, but I'll ask anyway. What approach to profiles do you take on the 7D?
 
Perry Wilson said:
but it doesn't provide more flexibility... it actually makes it impossible to grade... unless you use a preset grade that makes false colors anyways then it is the dumbest thing ever....
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Agreed!

Super flat is good if the codec is up to par to handle such a vast spread of latitude. It's not. It's even worse on the GH1. The codec can't handle that. With a weak codec, you kinda need to shoot like it's slide film or high contrast film stock. I used to have a study done for the AirForce, that showed that if an image was to flat, you would have unrecoverable detail. The study was part of a reconnaissance paper, however the part on that always stuck in my mind. These weak codecs need to have things in black and white terms; not delicate subtlety as much better codecs can handle. Just my opinion...


Kholi said:
I haven't found a single reason, OTHER than creating a VERY specific FINAL look IN CAMERA, to use custom curves. It's pointless, it's not RAW data. Messing around with this stuff in post outside of simple adjustments just doesn't make much sense.

Get it in camera. Use Neutral and dial accordingly if you need something flat, SUPERFLAT just looks HORRIBLE and it doesn't do anything extra for you if you're grading. Again, this footage is nowhere near-to RAW or anything that you should be blasting with crazy grades, it is what it is.

The second you begin to do these things and view it, in full quality on a LARGE source, is the second you realize you should have just gotten it in camera.
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Totally agree with everything you said here!



Michael Pappas
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
http://SumeriusChronicles.com/
http://TheOrbisTerrarum.com/
 
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iknow this is off topic but did anyone notice that last week canon posted a "new firmware" update for the 7d? holy crap!
 
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